HELP - Polk CS2 better than Athena AS-C1???

[SangYuP]

I use an Athena AS-C1 for my center right now with Athena AS-F2 for my mains. Today, I scored a Polk CS2 center for $65 and I couldn't resist the temptation. The price was too good to pass up. Anyway, the CS2 is a little bigger (2x6.5" vs 2x5.25"). I've always heard that the C1 was too small for the F2. So how much better is the CS2 compared to the Athena C1? Or are they similar and I should just return the CS2 and keep the Athena C1? I know the AS-C1 are matched better with the F2, but if the CS2 is A LOT better, than that's fine that it's not as well matched as the AS-C1. I have listed the specs below:


Polk CS2:

Driver Complement
Mid/Woofer 2 - 6-1/2" Diameter (16.51cm)
Dynamic Balance Bi-laminate composite cone drivers, magnetically shielded
Tweeter 1 - 1" Diameter (2.54cm)
Dynamic Balance Silk/polymer composite dome, magnetically shielded
Electrical
Overall Frequency Response 55Hz - 25kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 60Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 24kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 175 w/channel
Efficiency 90 dB
Crossover 2.3kHz, second order high and low pass
Inputs 5-way binding posts
Dimensions
Cabinet Size 7-3/4" H x 21-1/4" W x 11-1/8" D
(19.68cm H x 53.98cm W x 28.26cm D)
Enclosure Type Vented via rear-mounted flared port
Shipping/Other
Product Weight 17.00 lbs. (7.71kgs)
Shipping unit: each
Total Shipping Weight 21.00 lbs. (9.53kgs)
Speaker Warranty 5 years parts and labor (original purchaser)




Athena AS-C1:

Tweeter: 1" Teteron Dome Magnetically Shielded
Impedance: 8 ohms compatible
Woofer: Dual 5-1/2" Injection Molded Polypropylene with Rubber Surround
Magnetically Shielded
Dimensions: 7" H x 17 3/4"W x 9 1/2" D
Frequency Response: 60Hz - 20kHz +/- 3 dB
Finish Options: Black Ash
Power Handling: 150 watts per channel
Weight: 18 lbs each Packaged Individually
Sensitivity: 90dB

 

[jamie2112]

Have you listened to them yourself? I think you have all the info you need to make a decision..... YOUR EARS....if it sounds better to you than sell the other one ...

 

[SangYuP]

I would love to try them out, but they are still sitting in the box unopened. If it's not an upgrade, then I will just save it to give as a present this Christmas. If it is an upgrade, then I will open it up and keep it. Because of this, I don't want to open it unless I'm sure it's an upgrade. I wanted to see if anyone here has had any experience with both of these speakers. Thanks.

 

[speakerman39]

Sang, the CS2 with having larger mids will be better for the most part DYNAMICALLY speaking. In other words, the CS2 will have more capability, but that does not mean it is a better fit for your application. My advice, as well as Jamie's, is to try them both. Your ears are better making that decision than any of us here. After all, you know better than we do what you like.....right? Timbre matched speakers usually works best in most situations. The CS2 will NOT be timbre/voiced matched to your tower speakers. Good luck in your decision.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[SangYuP]

Sang, the CS2 with having larger mids will be better for the most part DYNAMICALLY speaking. In other words, the CS2 will have more capability, but that does not mean it is a better fit for your application. My advice, as well as Jamie's, is to try them both. Your ears are better making that decision than any of us here. After all, you know better than we do what you like.....right? Timbre matched speakers usually works best in most situations. The CS2 will NOT be timbre/voiced matched to your tower speakers. Good luck in your decision.

Cheers,

Phil

Phil,

Thanks for your advice, but unfortunately I am trying hard not to open the box in case they are not better than my current center speaker as mentioned above. You don't know how tempted I am to just rip open the box and try it out, but I'm trying my best to hold out. Maybe if no one answers in the next day or two, I'll be forced to just open it.

My thoughts were similar to yours about it being more capable since it has the bigger drivers. I've always felt that the AS-C1 were a little underpowered for my F2. A lot of times the dialogue would be drowned out by my mains. I would turn it up to hear the dialogue and then I would have to turn it down because the action got too loud and so on. Anyway, I hope someone chimes in soon...

 

[speakerman39]

Phil,

Thanks for your advice, but unfortunately I am trying hard not to open the box in case they are not better than my current center speaker as mentioned above. You don't know how tempted I am to just rip open the box and try it out, but I'm trying my best to hold out. Maybe if no one answers in the next day or two, I'll be forced to just open it.

My thoughts were similar to yours about it being more capable since it has the bigger drivers. I've always felt that the AS-C1 were a little underpowered for my F2. A lot of times the dialogue would be drowned out by my mains. I would turn it up to hear the dialogue and then I would have to turn it down because the action got too loud and so on. Anyway, I hope someone chimes in soon...

Sang, have you ran the auto calibration with respect to your receiver? Did you by chance double-check with a RS SPL meter?? I assume you have your fronts set to large.....right? Have you tried setting them to small and perhaps run the center 2-3 db hotter? What X-over setting are you using? How do you have the center placed? Angled up to the sweet spot perhaps? Positioning and placement is paramount for proper integration. I for one, run my Polk CSi3 a few db's hotter than my mains. Seems to work quite well in my very tiny room. How big is your room?

Cheers,

Phil

 

[SangYuP]

Sang, have you ran the auto calibration with respect to your receiver? Did you by chance double-check with a RS SPL meter?? I assume you have your fronts set to large.....right? Have you tried setting them to small and perhaps run the center 2-3 db hotter? What X-over setting are you using? How do you have the center placed? Angled up to the sweet spot perhaps? Positioning and placement is paramount for proper integration. I for one, run my Polk CSi3 a few db's hotter than my mains. Seems to work quite well in my very tiny room. How big is your room?

Cheers,

Phil

Phil,

I use a Yammy 5860 and I have run the auto calibration (YPAO) but it's the limited kind. I can't remember what's missing from it, but it's not full fledged. Anyway, I ran the auto calibration and I also go back and set all my speakers to SMALL and the xover to 80hz. The auto makes all my speakers LARGE and xover at 60. After I set size and xover, I use my SPL meter and calibrate all the speaker levels to reference level of 75db to all speakers. I run my sub (MFW-15) about +3-5db hot. I set my center to the same as all my other speakers. I guess I should try to make it about +3 hotter and see how it works out.

I live in a one bedroom apartment right now so space is limited and I can't move around my speakers at all. My living room is almost 1700 cu ft (15.5 x 13.5 x 8) which is joined by my dining room and kitchen which is another 500 cu ft (7.5 x 8.5 x 8). Due to limited space, my center speaker is on the floor vertical between my left front and TV stand. I put some cardboard on the front bottom to angle it a little upwards.

 

[speakerman39]

Phil,

I use a Yammy 5860 and I have run the auto calibration (YPAO) but it's the limited kind. I can't remember what's missing from it, but it's not full fledged. Anyway, I ran the auto calibration and I also go back and set all my speakers to SMALL and the xover to 80hz. The auto makes all my speakers LARGE and xover at 60. After I set size and xover, I use my SPL meter and calibrate all the speaker levels to reference level of 75db to all speakers. I run my sub (MFW-15) about +3-5db hot. I set my center to the same as all my other speakers. I guess I should try to make it about +3 hotter and see how it works out.

I live in a one bedroom apartment right now so space is limited and I can't move around my speakers at all. My living room is almost 1700 cu ft (15.5 x 13.5 x 8) which is joined by my dining room and kitchen which is another 500 cu ft (7.5 x 8.5 x 8). Due to limited space, my center speaker is on the floor vertical between my left front and TV stand. I put some cardboard on the front bottom to angle it a little upwards.

I have the Yammie 663 and the limited version of YPAO does fine in my room. It looks like you have done everything else correctly. To be honest, I have no experience whatsoever in running a center channel speaker vertically. Perhaps others here can be of more assistance. I do see why you chose the MFW-15 though. I still say it comes down to what you prefer. For no more than what you have in the CS2 my vote is to open it up and see for yourself. Personally, I have heard both extensively and there was no doubt in my mind which was the better of the two. But, that is MY conclusion as yours may be different. Anyways, good luck in your decision. Hope you get it all figured out.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[SangYuP]

Personally, I have heard both extensively and there was no doubt in my mind which was the better of the two. But, that is MY conclusion as yours may be different. Anyways, good luck in your decision. Hope you get it all figured out.

Cheers,

Phil

Phil,

Thanks for your reply. When you say that you heard both extensively, which speakers are you talking about? Do you mean you heard both the Polk CS2 and Athena AS-C1? And which one did you end up choosing?

 

[speakerman39]

Phil,

Thanks for your reply. When you say that you heard both extensively, which speakers are you talking about? Do you mean you heard both the Polk CS2 and Athena AS-C1? And which one did you end up choosing?

Yes, I have heard both many times. I used to own some Athena speakers and am very familiar with most of the Polks. I never did an A/B test or anything like that. But, it was quite obvious to me the CS2 was better. It should be given larger enclosure and larger drivers. Keep in mind too, that I really like the Polk sound. Some do and some don't like Polk. I am one that does. In fact, just bought a set of the Polk Monitor 30's that I am now using for my rears instead of the FXiA4's. Hence, the FXiA4's will be put up for sale. Just too tired to mess with it tonight. Maybe tomorrow evening I will snap a few pics and post them for sale. However, I am not sure how the CS2 will sound with the Athena towers. It may sound fine, but then again it may not. My guess is, the Athena center you have would work better. Have you thought about getting a second Athena center just like the one you have now? Maybe put a mono-block amp on them which would really make a difference. Not really sure, but it is a thought. You never know, that may work real good and be fully voiced-matched.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[SangYuP]

Yes, I have heard both many times. I used to own some Athena speakers and am very familiar with most of the Polks. I never did an A/B test or anything like that. But, it was quite obvious to me the CS2 was better. It should be given larger enclosure and larger drivers. Keep in mind too, that I really like the Polk sound. Some do and some don't like Polk. I am one that does. In fact, just bought a set of the Polk Monitor 30's that I am now using for my rears instead of the FXiA4's. Hence, the FXiA4's will be put up for sale. Just too tired to mess with it tonight. Maybe tomorrow evening I will snap a few pics and post them for sale. However, I am not sure how the CS2 will sound with the Athena towers. It may sound fine, but then again it may not. My guess is, the Athena center you have would work better. Have you thought about getting a second Athena center just like the one you have now? Maybe put a mono-block amp on them which would really make a difference. Not really sure, but it is a thought. You never know, that may work real good and be fully voiced-matched.

Cheers,

Phil

Phil,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. You have been a great help as always. Do you have any recommendations on how to tell right away if it's voice matched? Is this something that I will be able to tell right away if it isn't voiced matched? I've always heard how important it was to voice match, but since I've always had the Athena F2 and C1, I've never expereince non voice matched sound. Will it be obvious like listening to a duet and one instrument being out of tune? Or are we talking subtle differences? Or is there a movie or something where it's obvious if they are voice matched or not by playing? Please let me know. Thanks again!

 

[billy p]

I would not swictch from the as-c1 to the polk cs2. As was mentioned before try calabrating your set up and run your centre a little hotter OR lower your mains a wee bit. I had similar issues with my c-1 and I used b2's as mains. IMO even if the polk CS2 is better and could in fact keep up with the f2's, tonnaly they won't match and that would cause other issues.
Just my 2 cents

 

[speakerman39]

Phil,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. You have been a great help as always. Do you have any recommendations on how to tell right away if it's voice matched? Is this something that I will be able to tell right away if it isn't voiced matched? I've always heard how important it was to voice match, but since I've always had the Athena F2 and C1, I've never expereince non voice matched sound. Will it be obvious like listening to a duet and one instrument being out of tune? Or are we talking subtle differences? Or is there a movie or something where it's obvious if they are voice matched or not by playing? Please let me know. Thanks again!

Sang, to be properly timbre matched the speakers need to use the same exact drivers, as well as, the same size drivers. Most of which from the same exact brand. Therefore, the CS2 will NOT be timbre matched at all. I tell my customers all the time that I would NOT use Pioneer co-axials up front and then use Alpine co-axials in the rear. Sure, they will play, but it is very obvious that they each sound different. Does it sound good you ask......right? Well, that depends on who you ask. To me, it does not sound right at all, others may say otherwise. Moral of the story is, it comes down to an individual preference bar none. You have to decide for yourself. Don't worry about what other people think and worry about what YOU think. Hope this helps and once again good luck.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[SangYuP]

I would not swictch from the as-c1 to the polk cs2. As was mentioned before try calabrating your set up and run your centre a little hotter OR lower your mains a wee bit. I had similar issues with my c-1 and I used b2's as mains. IMO even if the polk CS2 is better and could in fact keep up with the f2's, tonnaly they won't match and that would cause other issues.
Just my 2 cents

Billy,

Thanks for your input. I will try to run it a little hotter and see what happens. What other issues are you referring to?

 

[SangYuP]

Sang, to be properly timbre matched the speakers need to use the same exact drivers, as well as, the same size drivers. Most of which from the same exact brand. Therefore, the CS2 will NOT be timbre matched at all. I tell my customers all the time that I would NOT use Pioneer co-axials up front and then use Alpine co-axials in the rear. Sure, they will play, but it is very obvious that they each sound different. Does it sound good you ask......right? Well, that depends on who you ask. To me, it does not sound right at all, others may say otherwise. Moral of the story is, it comes down to an individual preference bar none. You have to decide for yourself. Don't worry about what other people think and worry about what YOU think. Hope this helps and once again good luck.

Cheers,

Phil

Phil,

As you have mentioned, in order to be timbre matched, they need to use the same driver and size. The Athena AS-C1 have 5.25" driver and F2 uses 8" drivers. The tweeters are the same, but the woofers are not. Does that mean they are not timbre matched? The CS2 is obviously different, but it has a bigger woofer (6.5"). I think I will just open up the CS2 and see how they sound to me as you have recommended.

 

[speakerman39]

Phil,

As you have mentioned, in order to be timbre matched, they need to use the same driver and size. The Athena AS-C1 have 5.25" driver and F2 uses 8" drivers. The tweeters are the same, but the woofers are not. Does that mean they are not timbre matched? The CS2 is obviously different, but it has a bigger woofer (6.5"). I think I will just open up the CS2 and see how they sound to me as you have recommended.

Sang, there are several schools of thought regarding voice-matching. Some say it is the tweeter that is the critical component to be fully timbre matched. Others, believe it is the tweeter and the mid drivers that are the most critica. I still believe the AS-C1 would be much better if your end goal is to voice-match your towers. The CS2 is not going to do that even though it has larger mid drivers. The reason being, the mids are made of different materials and by different manufacturers. Why not just open the CS2 up and decide if the sound (of the CS2) will integrate better to your liking. If you like it, that is really all that matters. Nothing in life is perfect no matter how hard we try. We may get close at times, but never 100%. Hey, if you don't like the CS2 just sell it. It is not like you are risking much right?

Cheers,

Phil

 

[SangYuP]

Sang, there are several schools of thought regarding voice-matching. Some say it is the tweeter that is the critical component to be fully timbre matched. Others, believe it is the tweeter and the mid drivers that are the most critica. I still believe the AS-C1 would be much better if your end goal is to voice-match your towers. The CS2 is not going to do that even though it has larger mid drivers. The reason being, the mids are made of different materials and by different manufacturers. Why not just open the CS2 up and decide if the sound (of the CS2) will integrate better to your liking. If you like it, that is really all that matters. Nothing in life is perfect no matter how hard we try. We may get close at times, but never 100%. Hey, if you don't like the CS2 just sell it. It is not like you are risking much right?

Cheers,

Phil

Phil,

Hehe, I think I'll open up the CS2 and listen to it tomorrow. Let's see how they sound with my F2s...thanks for all your suggestions.

 

[speakerman39]

Phil,

Hehe, I think I'll open up the CS2 and listen to it tomorrow. Let's see how they sound with my F2s...thanks for all your suggestions.

You are quite welcome Sang. Glad I could be of some assistance. If I can be of any further assistance, shoot me a PM. Otherwise, I like your plan. If you don't like the CS2 be sure to let me know. Good luck!!!!!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[billy p]

Billy,

Thanks for your input. I will try to run it a little hotter and see what happens. What other issues are you referring to?

Phil kinda answered those issues in posts 13 &16. I would rather have less(with the as-c1) and be tonally balanced across the front for H/T, than tampering with the soundfield using a different speaker like the Polk cs2. Let us know how everything works out later today.

BTW how is the new sub. Did you also have a crappy Athena sub prior?

 

[SangYuP]

Phil kinda answered those issues in posts 13 &16. I would rather have less(with the as-c1) and be tonally balanced across the front for H/T, than tampering with the soundfield using a different speaker like the Polk cs2. Let us know how everything works out later today.

BTW how is the new sub. Did you also have a crappy Athena sub prior?

Billy,

I'll be sure to post again once I've hooked up the CS2 and tried it out. I wouldn't call the Athena sub crappy, but yes I did have the AS-P400 sub. It was pretty good for it's price. Of course the MFW-15 blows it out of the water and I'm loving it. This thing is huge and I still can't get over how big it is. I had to put a fleece blanket over it so that people don't mistaken it for a end table since it's right next to my couch. The finish on this thing is beautiful, but unfortunately the blanket covers it. It rattles my apartment and I'm surprised my neighbors have not complained yet. Of course I only play it loud during the day and not too late at night. The only complaint I have, which is very minor, is the fact that the grill is attached by magnets and not by pegs. The reason is if I play it loud, the grill sometimes moves a little bit from all the shaking. It doesn't move that much, but I still notice that the grill is not on straight. Other than that this sub goes deep and loud. I still need to do a frequency response test to see what kind of performance I'm getting. Since moving it to a different location is out of the question, I might have to buy a PEQ to flatten the response curve.