Help! New Amp or New Speakers?

[Harrison476]

Forum Members:

First thanks for all your posts and replies over the last year or so. I have found many answers to my questions in this forum.

I am just not satisfied with my current power (140w/ch, 7 channels) provided by my receiver. I have a feeling that my speakers are not pushed enough.
I have a group of speakers all M&K. Note : all of these are 4 ohms, 400 max V

My question is:
1. If I add a amp, lets say emotiva XPA-5 is that going to push my current speakers to obtain the dymamics I'm looking for? or
2. Are the newer speakers I read about in the forum (in the same price range) just much better than my M&K's, so I should replace speakers?

Thanks for any thoughts

 

[mtrycrafts]

Forum Members:

First thanks for all your posts and replies over the last year or so. I have found many answers to my questions in this forum.

I am just not satisfied with my current power (140w/ch, 7 channels) provided by my receiver. I have a feeling that my speakers are not pushed enough.
I have a group of speakers all M&K. Note : all of these are 4 ohms, 400 max V

My question is:
1. If I add a amp, lets say emotiva XPA-5 is that going to push my current speakers to obtain the dymamics I'm looking for? or
2. Are the newer speakers I read about in the forum (in the same price range) just much better than my M&K's, so I should replace speakers?

Thanks for any thoughts

You may want to tell all of us what it is you don't like or think that is not pleasing you. What is your listening levels, room size and distance to speakers? How sensitive are those speakers?

Do you have a powered sub?

 

[agarwalro]

What model of speakers are they?
What about the current sound leads you to believe there is something lacking?
Is your system properly calibrated?

If you get 75dB SPL at your main listening position from all the speakers and the amp is not near its max volume, it is probably sufficient.

Adding a dedicated amp may help, but it is not a certainty.

 

[cfrizz]

Definately get an Emo XPA-5 or like amp. Those speakers are being starved for power. Other amps to check out would be Outlaw, Parasound, Rotel, B & K, Adcom, Nad, Sunfire.

Your lucky if your speakers are getting 50wpc from that receiver never mind 140. 4ohm speakers needs lots of power to operate to their full potential.

All speakers improve with more power including 8ohm speakers. But with 4ohm speakers it's pretty much mandatory.

So amp up & enjoy hearing what your speakers are really capable of sounding like.

Forum Members:

First thanks for all your posts and replies over the last year or so. I have found many answers to my questions in this forum.

I am just not satisfied with my current power (140w/ch, 7 channels) provided by my receiver. I have a feeling that my speakers are not pushed enough.
I have a group of speakers all M&K. Note : all of these are 4 ohms, 400 max V

My question is:
1. If I add a amp, lets say emotiva XPA-5 is that going to push my current speakers to obtain the dymamics I'm looking for? or
2. Are the newer speakers I read about in the forum (in the same price range) just much better than my M&K's, so I should replace speakers?

Thanks for any thoughts

 

[Harrison476]

mtrycrafts, agarwalro

Thanks for reply,

The area its in now is tempory. I know its not ideal. When listening to HT it very good. When music is the choice it seems to be lacking to me. Yes I have a sub, powered 350 w,and it blends in very well. Using a meter, I still have plenty of vol left.
I guess its hard for me to decribe the sound I am reaching for. But music is not crisp detailed enough for me, now when playing one of my favorite groups of jazz-Fourplay it sounds much better, the stones (rock) not near good enough.
I even set up another set of L&R fronts ( 2 sets of thx s-150 ultra) which they refer to as Stacked. Didnt help. I dont get the feeling Im pushing the speakers enough. Maybe Im crazy !

 

[Mike19]

Hi Harrison.

If its just using the 2 main speakers for stereo music that is bothering you, then add a stereo amp of at least 200wpc.

If multi channel sound is not satisfying, then add either:

> a multi channel amp w/ the max wattage your smallest speakers will take (I usually add 30% to whatever wattage the manufacture recomends )

> if your avr has enough pre-outs, a 200w x2 amp for the mains, and a seperate 3 or 5 channel amp for the center and surrounds. Again this would be at max wattage smallest speakers can handlel.

 

[Highbar]

What are you using to power the speakers now? Is it a dedicated amp or a receiver? What model? 140W sounds like it's a Pioneer maybe? Most receiver just aren't designed to power 4Ohm speakers, they may be rated for it but few can, the power supplies just aren't big enough. If it is a receiver than it's probably not 140/channel as lowering the resistance of the speakers will actually increase the amount of power the amp is trying to put out, again if it's a receiver it just doesn't have enough power supply to do it.

You say you added another set speakers of for stereo does that mean you are using A&B speaker outs??? That would be really bad and actually make the sound worse as those are usually connected to the same amp channels so the amp would be splitting it's power between the sets of the speakers and seeing an even lower resistance.

It sounds like an amp may help but maybe not. Did the speakers ever sound good to you as a stereo pair? Maybe you just need a few speakers for stereo listening. I know I have to setups.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks for reply,

The area its in now is tempory. I know its not ideal. When listening to HT it very good. When music is the choice it seems to be lacking to me. Yes I have a sub, powered 350 w,and it blends in very well. Using a meter, I still have plenty of vol left.
I guess its hard for me to decribe the sound I am reaching for. But music is not crisp detailed enough for me, now when playing one of my favorite groups of jazz-Fourplay it sounds much better, the stones (rock) not near good enough.
I even set up another set of L&R fronts ( 2 sets of thx s-150 ultra) which they refer to as Stacked. Didnt help. I dont get the feeling Im pushing the speakers enough. Maybe Im crazy !

How do you know it is not the recording that is inferior? Next, it may be you are having a room acoustics issue and last it may be the speakers themselves. I seriously doubt it is lack of power that you are hearing.
You may also try to borrow a different set of speakers and listen except you still would have the same room acoustics and possibly inferior recordings.

 

[Harrison476]

Wow thanks everyone

Highbar, it's a receiver, Onkyo Sr875. I checked before I got it(Its new), it is rated for 4ohms operation. Plus I run it on the 8ohms setting lol. I agree with you about the reciever driving all my speakers. I have no technincal results to back my feelings up. The 7 channels with 140w ratings/channel I feel are not available to all channels at once, I can detect differences between the surrounds and the fronts when the demand is needed. Ive had my speakers for sometime but they were idle most of the time untill I got the new receiver. The M&K thx s-150 ultra have a feature where you can add (stack) the fronts for larger spl. I drive the extra set with a addtional 2 ch amp.(onkyo 85w). I tried this for music only, Ive given up on this. Onkyo has a Pure Audio feature which shuts down all processingto provide the shortest, cleanest signal to the fronts. Problem is it doesnt allow for the subwoofer in this mode. Therfore a full range front is needed, which I dont have.

Mtrycraft, For sure the I think the recordings make a big difference, I am pretty sure the jazz cds do something to increase sensitivity to certain freq.in the studio. However my problem is with many other cds and different kinds of music.

Mike19, I have thought about adding two fronts for music like the new salk models recently reviewed. I have a full range of pre-outs but I havent figured how to run the current system for HT and use the salk speakers for music?

Dont get me wrong It sounds pretty good as is. When it was in my dedicated HT room it was better but divorce forced me to a smaller /worse setting. I am listening kinda as a nearfield setting. I still feel the presence of the speakers sound is lacking.Sorry for the long post but I do enjoy reading everyones opinons and has learned a lot about A/V this last year.

Thanks

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Last time I checked, the Onkyo 875 had some REAL power. So unless you have a HUGE room & listen to LOUD music, I also doubt that you need MORE power.

You can put a pair of $23,000 B&W 800Ds in a bad acoustic environment, and they will sound very mediocre.

So the first thing to do is fix the Acoustics and speaker PLACEMENT.

 

[agarwalro]

How do you know it is not the recording that is inferior? Next, it may be you are having a room acoustics issue and last it may be the speakers themselves. I seriously doubt it is lack of power that you are hearing.
You may also try to borrow a different set of speakers and listen except you still would have the same room acoustics and possibly inferior recordings.

+1. Stole my thoughts.

So the first thing to do is fix the Acoustics and speaker PLACEMENT.

Again +1. In addition to placement also play with the toe-in. I found that this makes a great difference in the soundstage when listening to stereo music.

 

[CraigV]

I’m not suggesting you dump the speakers you have, but to get an idea of what’s out there…By your description you may like the sound of Klipsch speakers. They play loud with minimal power and tend to bring out a lot more detail, especially in the high end.
Just for the heck of it, maybe give them a listen & see if they offer what you perceive as missing in you speakers.

 

[Harrison476]

power vs freq

I apprecate the comments and see the merit in the comments. Now help me with this:

My speakers (fronts) have a frequency response of : 80hz-22khz+/-2db

that to me is rather good, I believe my ears would have hard and long time detecting +/- 1 db.

How does power relate? Lets assume taking the brand of amp out of this, just quality linear power. Is there a min and max power point where the +/- db is most optimum?

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
Dont get me wrong It sounds pretty good as is. When it was in my dedicated HT room it was better....

Thanks

So, right there, it points to a room acoustics issue, not a lack of power. Same gear, different room, better sound.

 

[mtrycrafts]

+1. Stole my thoughts.

....

Then, I am guilty as charged

 

[mtrycrafts]

I apprecate the comments and see the merit in the comments. Now help me with this:

My speakers (fronts) have a frequency response of : 80hz-22khz+/-2db

that to me is rather good, I believe my ears would have hard and long time detecting +/- 1 db.

How does power relate? Lets assume taking the brand of amp out of this, just quality linear power. Is there a min and max power point where the +/- db is most optimum?

Well, without better speaker plottings, that spec doesn't tell us much.

If the speaker is a difficult load for an amp, the amp would go into clipping and badly distort, but, with your amp, you would really have to drive them.

 

[CraigV]

What is the rated sensitivity?

 

[lsiberian]

If an 875 can't drive your 2 speakers then you have issues.

However since you seem to not like the sound they are giving. Perhaps you could get a pro amp like a Behringer A500. I suggest pro-amps because you get more bang for your buck that way.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If an 875 can't drive your 2 speakers then you have issues.

However since you seem to not like the sound they are giving. Perhaps you could get a pro amp like a Behringer A500. I suggest pro-amps because you get more bang for your buck that way.

Just out of curiosity, do they make a pro-amp that can produce 1000 watts into 8 ohms?

I might be interested.

 

[lsiberian]

Just out of curiosity, do they make a pro-amp that can produce 1000 watts into 8 ohms?

I might be interested.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMP7000S

Can put out 2000 watts in 8 ohms in bridged mode.