HELP! Need high power handling center options...

[ParadigmDawg]

Good to see you back in true form Zumbo!!!!!

And yes, that is a good looking room. I don't mean to sound rude. I am passionate about the audio end of HT, and audio alone. I am a musician as well, so I do understand what type of speakers you are using.

 

[j_garcia]

I had a friend who was a DJ and he had a system similar to this in a room about the same size. It was loud, but man, it also sounded like I was in a bar (in other words, not exactly good).

If anything, I would use those towers as surrounds and go with NO center, because you aren't going to find a real match for what you have now other than another one of those guys. I don't think any of the centers mentioned are going to match up with those and if you do get a very good center, you will end up finding that your mains suddenly became the weak point. They are also a bit too toed in to give you any kind of imaging at the listening position, presuming you are seated approximately where the picture was taken from.

 

[poutanen]

Because, by all means, the mains look so good.

I don't mean to offend, but you are on your way to having a crappier system than you already have. Just because a speaker looks similar, doesn't mean it is a match. AT ALL. You would be shocked what a quality pair of bookshelves with a matching center and a powered sub would sound like. Or, small towers with a matching center and a powered sub. Either set-up would blow those huge speakers away. Seriously.

Klipsch speakers suck, if blunt is ok. (Heritage excluded)

Fair enough... I'm just guessing here that you're assuming I use this mostly for movie watching, which I don't. My usage is probably TV 30%, Video games 15% movies 15%, music 50%.

I am running both my HD cable box and the PS3 in surround out (not 2-ch), and can verify that each channel is running separately by the THX setup on some of the DVD's (they output pink noise through individual channels).

I'm sure the current style of smaller speakers sounds worlds better than the smaller speakers of before. I'm actually fond of the mission 701 bookshelfs I got my mom to buy a few years back for her stereo.

The SQ would likely be better with your suggestion for the style of listening that you do, but there are pros and cons to everything, and maybe I'm being naive, but in my case, for my tastes, the pros of pro-audio equipment outweighed the pros of dedicated HT equipment.

As for that room, I'm in the process of moving, and I'm looking for a house with a much larger room, so that I can put the pool table and all the rest of the toys in the same room as the screen and system, I'll be feeding a much larger area.

 

[poutanen]

I had a friend who was a DJ and he had a system similar to this in a room about the same size. It was loud, but man, it also sounded like I was in a bar (in other words, not exactly good).

If anything, I would use those towers as surrounds and go with NO center, because you aren't going to find a real match for what you have now other than another one of those guys. I don't think any of the centers mentioned are going to match up with those and if you do get a very good center, you will end up finding that your mains suddenly became the weak point. They are also a bit too toed in to give you any kind of imaging at the listening position, presuming you are seated approximately where the picture was taken from.

I've heard what you're talking about (loud, kinda "shreiky") and I can assure you my system doesn't sound like that at all. I was expecting that when I first bought the mains and they've never sounded that way to me, but who knows I could be deaf by now...

The toe in on the mains was to avoid reflections off the wall, due to the fact that the wall length was shorter than I would have liked.

Now no offence everybody, I realize this is the internet and we all have the right to say what we all want, but in this thread I'm asking for help matching a centre to my mains. If you want to bash my system, fair enough, but I've got another thread where I introduce myself and talk about the current system, and flame away in there.

 

[j_garcia]

Not bashing, just trying to help get the most out of the system and I think you will find a lot of the members here are on a similar page. Think of it as constructive criticism I know why you have them toed like that, and first reflections in a room like that is definitely a problem (My room is long and narrow also and first reflections are very obvious).

 

[poutanen]

Not bashing, just trying to help get the most out of the system and I think you will find a lot of the members here are on a similar page. Think of it as constructive criticism I know why you have them toed like that, and first reflections in a room like that is definitely a problem (My room is long and narrow also and first reflections are very obvious).

Constructive criticism I can live with...

Unfortunately I was renting that house, so I couldn't do too much to make it the way I really wanted it... I'm looking to buy a house at the moment (been living with everything in storage the last 3 weeks) and I'll be looking for a room with a wider wall for the system. That room was about 12' wide, and much longer, I think I'd need 16-18' at least to be able to keep the speakers away from the walls and avoid those bad first reflections.

I've chosen to go with pro-audio stuff at this point, and I think we can all agree that $10,000 speakers setup bad are going to sound worse than $1,000 speakers setup well. So that's what I'd like to do, setup my system well...

Here are the problems I've got, or think I've got, with the old setup:

- comb filtering by having the centres the way they were *ahem*
- reflections off the side walls
- the surrounds were too far back, about 8' back from the main listening position
- centre speaker too low, should have been just below screen
- walls were white, 'nuff said
- very little room treatments to better the acoustics, I'll at least have an area rug, if not wall to wall carpet in the new room, and I was debating about using something other than drywall for the walls (something that's more 'dead'!?!)

I'm trying to find a place with in unfinished basement so I can get in there and do it all myself, but then most of them have only 8' ceilings which I also didn't think was ideal...

So going back to my OP, I'm still thinking the JTR Triple 8 may be a better match than any of the boutique centre speakers.

 

[zumbo]

You will not find any long-time member here tell you any speaker other than one identical to your current speakers to be a match.This fact is why I recommended three new speakers with your budget, instead of one.

I wasn't assuming any listening preference. I watch concert dvd's 70%, listen to music 20%, and watch movies 10%. I find that concert dvd's get the most out of my system. Great SQ, and a viewing experience to match.

So, just to try to recommend one more time. It is my opinion, and I am certain that 99.9% of other long-time members here agree, to replace all three front speakers to get a match with good SQ.

I do not recommend you waste your money on any center, other than one identical to your mains, if you plan to keep them in your system. I just flat-out wouldn't, with any listening preference.

 

[zumbo]

In the beginning of this thread, I was assuming that you wanted to get a top-notch center, with future plans of replacing the mains. I am certain that any center recommend in this thread would be an improvement over what you have, because your current set-up doesn't match anyway. If this ends-up being an option, just be certain you like the mains that are available to match the center you choose.

 

[poutanen]

In the beginning of this thread, I was assuming that you wanted to get a top-notch center, with future plans of replacing the mains. I am certain that any center recommend in this thread would be an improvement over what you have, because your current set-up doesn't match anyway. If this ends-up being an option, just be certain you like the mains that are available to match the center you choose.

Makes sense, I didn't (don't) have any plans to change the mains at this time. But I understand what you're saying, I should buy a centre based on them having a matching pair of mains that I 'would' see myself buying, so that I'm not replacing all 3 again should I have a moment of weakness one day.

One more question, is there any school of thought that would say that I'd be better off running a ghost centre channel? Rather than trying to match something up in this situation?

Thanks again,

Aaron

 

[bandphan]

once you get the jtr for the center, you will want to get the L & R also Then if anyone other than you questions your setup, its subjective.

 

[zumbo]

once you get the jtr for the center, you will want to get the L & R also Then if anyone other than you questions your setup, its subjective.

This is my point excatly. Once you get a high quality center, you will decide to match the mains to it. So, be 100% sure you like the center you choose.

 

[zumbo]

Since you love your mains, and plan to keep them in the system, how about one of these for a match?

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Yamaha-CM10V-10--2-Way-Club-Concert-Series-Monitor-601218-i1152953.gc

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Yamaha-CM12V-12--2-Way-Club-Concert-Series-Monitor-601219-i1152954.gc

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Yamaha-CM15V-15--2-Way-Club-Concert-Series-Monitor-601220-i1152955.gc

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/233482.html

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/233481.html

 

[poutanen]

Since you love your mains, and plan to keep them in the system, how about one of these for a match?

Well that's just it now... I came on here wondering what centre to match to my mains, and now I'm starting to wonder if I should replace everything.

CRAP! lol

I think I'm going to see what house I'm going to buy, see what size room I've got to work with, and go from there...

 

[DD66000]

Unfortunately I was renting that house, so I couldn't do too much to make it the way I really wanted it... I'm looking to buy a house at the moment (been living with everything in storage the last 3 weeks) and I'll be looking for a room with a wider wall for the system. That room was about 12' wide, and much longer, I think I'd need 16-18' at least to be able to keep the speakers away from the walls and avoid those bad first reflections.

The wider the room the better the soundstage. My LR/HT is 17.5ft wide with the mains set 58"(which is the correct distance for the room width) in from the side walls, that leaves 8ft c/c.
As for matching a center to your current mains, how good are you at carpentry? If it was me, I would take another of those mains and cut it down, removing the bass drivers and just using the HF, midrange and mid-bass, if they have one. Or you could build a center box, either vertical or horizontal (with the HF and midrange stacked vertically), depending which would fit best. It works I've done it.

 

[Midcow2]

CLR3000 - Awesome Center

Well that's just it now... I came on here wondering what centre to match to my mains, and now I'm starting to wonder if I should replace everything.

CRAP! lol

I think I'm going to see what house I'm going to buy, see what size room I've got to work with, and go from there...

Get this center and then pick some matching fronts. This center will blow you away

Definitive Technology CLR3000 ( 55 lbs)
http://www.definitivetech.com/loudspeakers/clr/clr.html

C/L/R 3000 Specifications:
Dimensions: 25" W x 8-5/16" H x 16" D.
Response: 19 – 30 kHz.
Nominal Imp.: 4 – 8 ohms.
Rec. amp: 20 – 400 watts.
Built-in sub amp: 150 watts RMS.
Efficiency: 91 dB
Drivers:
– One cast basket 10" sub with one 150-Watt RMS amplifier
– Two cast basket 6-1/2" upper-bass/midrange drivers
– One 1" pure aluminum dome tweeter
Auto On/Off: Signal sensing.
Finish: Piano-Gloss Black. Tri-wireable.
Retail: $1099 ea.

 

[poutanen]

The wider the room the better the soundstage. My LR/HT is 17.5ft wide with the mains set 58"(which is the correct distance for the room width) in from the side walls, that leaves 8ft c/c.

That's what I thought... which leads me to think I'm best off finding a house with an unfinished basement, so that I can build a dedicated HT room, complete with proper sound deadening material in the walls, pre-wire all the speakers, projector, as well as a couple dedicated 20A circuits for my power amps...

As for matching a center to your current mains, how good are you at carpentry? If it was me, I would take another of those mains and cut it down, removing the bass drivers and just using the HF, midrange and mid-bass, if they have one. Or you could build a center box, either vertical or horizontal (with the HF and midrange stacked vertically), depending which would fit best. It works I've done it.

I hadn't thought of that... I've built over 10 speaker boxes in the past, and had good luck when I designed it properly (matching the theile-small parameters to the box dimenesions). Trouble is, my mains have a 15" mid-bass woofer, and a horn tweeter crossed over at 2k hz. The 15 would be hard to build into a decent looking centre methinks! However, if I could find maybe a 10" from Yamaha with similar TS parameters to the 15", and re-use the crossover from the 15, I might be able to make something workable. It would certainly be cheaper than purchasing a similar main.

If I built a centre with the typical W-T-W layout, using 10" woofers, I wonder about comb filtering? Maybe it'd just be better to build one with a single 10"...

I'm going to look at a used Klipsche RC-64 tomorrow night, the guy wants $500 CDN so I'm tempted, just not sure how well it'll match what I've got.

Thanks for the input!

 

[DD66000]

That's what I thought... which leads me to think I'm best off finding a house with an unfinished basement, so that I can build a dedicated HT room, complete with proper sound deadening material in the walls, pre-wire all the speakers, projector, as well as a couple dedicated 20A circuits for my power amps...

If I built a centre with the typical W-T-W layout, using 10" woofers, I wonder about comb filtering? Maybe it'd just be better to build one with a single 10"...

Thanks for the input!

That's why I mentioned if building a horizontal center to have the tweeter, midrange aligned vertically, with the mid-bass to the side, if you don't have enough room to build it in total vertical alignment.

About the mid-bass driver size, I built a horizontal center using two of the same 8" drivers, as there was no smaller driver that matched.
The 8" drivers were to the sides, with the tweeter, midrange stacked vertically.
The two 8" were way too much bass. I disconnected one of the 8" and all was right. So as I was only using one 8", I built a vertical aligned array, same as the mains (24" tall)

These center alignments will always be better

Than one like this

 

[Soundman]

Hey, I read through most of this thread and it sounds like you are still wanting to keep those mains in your system. I'm not trying to sound crytical b/c I know you've gotten some criticism already, but those mains were not designed for home/living room use. They look like something a local DJ would be using. If your intended purpose is for home use, then you should integrate products that were designed for that. You'll be alot happier in the end. Just trying to help.

 

[DD66000]

Hey, I read through most of this thread and it sounds like you are still wanting to keep those mains in your system. I'm not trying to sound crytical b/c I know you've gotten some criticism already, but those mains were not designed for home/living room use. They look like something a local DJ would be using. If your intended purpose is for home use, then you should integrate products that were designed for that. You'll be alot happier in the end. Just trying to help.

Many people use pro speakers in their homes, if you doubt that take a look over at www.audioheritage.org. Most of the posters over there use JBL or Altec Lansing pro speakers.

 

[Soundman]

Many people use pro speakers in their homes, if you doubt that take a look over at www.audioheritage.org. Most of the posters over there use JBL or Altec Lansing pro speakers.

Are you suggesting that that pair of Yamaha's he's using in that room is an ideal choice, given the many options for HT applications? I wasn't trying to argue over this point. Just offering a little advice, that's all. Much of the pro audio gear is not designed for a living room type of environment. There are just more cost effective ways of producing good sound quality these days.