Help! Need $3000 Five Speaker recommendations (Don’t like my Klipsch RB81 II system)

[scattershot]

Hi everyone:

I am looking for a 5.0 bookshelf type-system (e.g. no floorstanders) recommendation to go with my current system:

Onkyo TX-NR809 Receiver:
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR809&class=Receiver&p=i

SVS PB13-Ultra Subwoofer
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm

My budget for these 5 speakers is around $3000 or so (but I could be convinced to go up to $4000 IF there was a really BIG sound difference otherwise I am trying to cap it at $3000 for these 5 speakers).

--------------------------------------------------
My living room dimensions are:

16.2 Feet Deep (194 inches)
by
10.8 Feet Wide (130 inches)

My listening location will be 10 Feet away (120 inches) from the TV wall.

--------------------------------------------------
----- Background history:

I bought a Klipsch Reference Series 2 bookshelf system for around $3000 consisting of:

Klipsch Bookshelf Speaker RB-81 II
http://www.klipsch.com/rb-81-ii-home-theater-system
($1100 per pair)

Klipsch Center Channel RC-62 II
http://www.klipsch.com/rc-62-ii-center-speaker
($650 each)

Klipsch Surround Speaker RS-52 II
http://www.klipsch.com/rs-52-ii-surround-speaker
($1000 per pair)

I found that the Klipsch’s biggest benefit was a very wide dispersion / soundstage on top of very high level of efficiency.
HOWEVER, I am very unsatisfied with the system because I find it to be much too “bright” and too much of a sound drop off from my previous system I had in the house (a Atlantic Technology THX Certified System 450)

I prefer clearer / more-accurate / warmer sounding music then the type of theatre sound the Klipsch offers, so for me Klipsch speakers or similar horn speakers are a no go.
So for myself I think the type of speakers that people who have a good ear for music would be the type I prefer?

--------------------------------------------------

Someone had mentioned that this Axiom audio system might be a "best bang for buck" out there and would deliver better sound they my current Klipsch RB-81 II speaker system.

Are my expectations too high for it and if so what would people out there recommend instead?

M22 Bookshelfs ($500 per pair):
http://axiomaudio.com/m22.html

VP150 V3 Center Channel ($434 each):
http://axiomaudio.com/vp150.html

QS8 v3 Surround Speakers ($582 each):
http://axiomaudio.com/qs8.html

Thank you.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

16x11 is pretty small-to-medium size room which should be pretty easy to pressurize unless its open to other spaces.
Klipsch is known for their bright sound and some people find it harsh. AT speakers are much higher stock and play more neutrally.

To get the sound YOU LOVE - you need to listed to speakers, hopefully before purchasing or at-least to be able to return them.

My suggestion is this:
Audiophile Loudspeakers and Subwoofers for Home Theater and Music - Ascend Acoustics, renowned speakers,subs,audio
Get Two pairs of Sierra-1 and one Sierra Center. Total : $2040+ shipping.
Add more for custom finishes.
You'll have 30 days in home trial to decide if you like them. AA have excellent customer service and their CS are active AH forums lurkers


I should also mention The Philarmonic speakers:
philharmonicaudio.com - however they don't do bookshelfs or center, but they are excellent speaker for the money.

p.s: I would not recommend Axiom, specifically their centers like VP150

 

[zieglj01]

PSB Imagine
PSB Imagine B (Dark Cherry) Bookshelf speakers at Crutchfield.com
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_760IMGNCC/PSB-Imagine-C-Dark-Cherry.html?search=psb+imagine
I prefer bookshelf surrounds - however, this can be set dipole, bipole or dual monopole
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_760IMGNSC/PSB-Imagine-S-Dark-Cherry.html?search=psb+imagine


I would reccomend the Focal Chorus - however, the tweeters are quite revealing
and show no mercy on nasty recordings.

Also look at NHT
http://www.nhthifi.com/Three?sc=12&category=3772
http://www.nhthifi.com/Three-C?sc=12&category=3774
http://www.nhthifi.com/Absolute-Zero-Black?sc=12&category=3772

And KEF
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/543883772/kef-q300-bookshelf-speakers?s_c=site_search
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548023570/kef-q600c-center-channel?s_c=site_search
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/543715648/kef-q100-bookshelf-speakers?s_c=site_search

And Outlaw
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/bls.html
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lcr.html
You can go dipole or monopole with this
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/sl.html

 

[GranteedEV]

I am looking for a 5.0 bookshelf type-system (e.g. no floorstanders) recommendation to go with my current system:

............why no floor standers????

I found that the Klipsch’s biggest benefit was a very wide dispersion / soundstage on top of very high level of efficiency.
HOWEVER, I am very unsatisfied with the system because I find it to be much too “bright” and too much of a sound drop off from my previous system I had in the house (a Atlantic Technology THX Certified System 450)

No doubt about that.

Someone had mentioned that this Axiom audio system might be a "best bang for buck" out there and would deliver better sound they my current Klipsch RB-81 II speaker system.

I doubt it. Axioms will probably not cut the mustard for your criteria of an accurate, non fatiguing sound.

I recommend

2X JTR Triple 8HT-LP ($2200) mains.
4X KEF Q300 ($1000 for four surrounds)

If you want a center, add a third JTR, but I don't think it's worth an extra $1100 for a center - at least not immediately. Just my opinion.

This will allow you to maintain the sensitivity you were getting from the klipsches, but have a much more relaxed, neutral sound to it.

 

[psbfan9]

Salk bookshelf speakers

These are on my 'upgrade' list after I get a new receiver and amp.

CAOW1 - home

 

[DenPureSound]

Hi everyone:

I am looking for a 5.0 bookshelf type-system (e.g. no floorstanders) recommendation to go with my current system:

Onkyo TX-NR809 Receiver:
Onkyo TX-NR809 - 7.2-Channel Network A/V Receiver | Model Information | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products

SVS PB13-Ultra Subwoofer
SVSound - Box Subwoofers

My budget for these 5 speakers is around $3000 or so (but I could be convinced to go up to $4000 IF there was a really BIG sound difference otherwise I am trying to cap it at $3000 for these 5 speakers).

--------------------------------------------------
My living room dimensions are:

16.2 Feet Deep (194 inches)
by
10.8 Feet Wide (130 inches)

My listening location will be 10 Feet away (120 inches) from the TV wall.

--------------------------------------------------
----- Background history:

I bought a Klipsch Reference Series 2 bookshelf system for around $3000 consisting of:

Klipsch Bookshelf Speaker RB-81 II
RB-81 II Home Theater System
($1100 per pair)

Klipsch Center Channel RC-62 II
RC-62 II Center Speaker
($650 each)

Klipsch Surround Speaker RS-52 II
RS-52 II Surround Speaker
($1000 per pair)

I found that the Klipsch’s biggest benefit was a very wide dispersion / soundstage on top of very high level of efficiency.
HOWEVER, I am very unsatisfied with the system because I find it to be much too “bright” and too much of a sound drop off from my previous system I had in the house (a Atlantic Technology THX Certified System 450)

I prefer clearer / more-accurate / warmer sounding music then the type of theatre sound the Klipsch offers, so for me Klipsch speakers or similar horn speakers are a no go.
So for myself I think the type of speakers that people who have a good ear for music would be the type I prefer?

--------------------------------------------------

Someone had mentioned that this Axiom audio system might be a "best bang for buck" out there and would deliver better sound they my current Klipsch RB-81 II speaker system.

Are my expectations too high for it and if so what would people out there recommend instead?

M22 Bookshelfs ($500 per pair):
http://axiomaudio.com/m22.html

VP150 V3 Center Channel ($434 each):
http://axiomaudio.com/vp150.html

QS8 v3 Surround Speakers ($582 each):
http://axiomaudio.com/qs8.html

Thank you.

Another ONE that has Klipsch and they are missing a lot of detail like I with my RF-82II for Front Mains. I would look at the Salk SongTowers for your Mains, or the Philharmonic Audio Phil 2's both around $2K per Pair. Both the Xovers were designed by Dennis Murphy in these speakers, and Paul Kittinger did the Mass Loaded Transmission Line designs, so that says a LOT!!

See if you can Audition the Salk SongTowers around your location.

Like me, move the Klipsch's out along with their HORNS 2, and get a Ribbon Tweeter, and either a Planar or cone for Mid Driver.

 

[scattershot]

I should add-on as background information that in an ideal world I would take my Eagles – Hell Freezes Over (DTS) DVD and use the first 2 minutes of the “Hotel California” track to test any potential speakers. I know that everyone’s idea of good sound varies, and that a listening test is the ONLY definitive way of knowing (as I found out with my blind Klipsch Reference RB-81 II purchase).

I like the way the Hotel California 2 minute instrumental opening highlights one instrument at a time – makes it very easy to compare two different speakers with a wide-range of instruments. (and until the Blu-ray version of this track comes out I am using the DTS DVD version).

--------------------------------------------------
My very first speaker set, when money was no object (e.g. when I lived at home and didn’t have a “rent” or “food” overhead) was a flagship system -- a THX Ultra certified Atlantic Technology System 450. The system had no large weaknesses, and sounded great musically AND with movies. It was a treat to listen to these things which sounded better than most of the systems I heard in actual theaters.

The bookshelfs of any system are the stress test, and the Atlantic Technology Model #451ELR bookshelfs were great. But it didn’t stop there. The center channel was FANTASTIC with a wide sound stage and very clear vocals, and the dipoles were among the most lively I have ever heard! Similar Atlantic Technology systems are way too out of my price range right now so they aren’t an option unfortunately as health issues have diluted my bank account in recent years….

--------------------------------------------------
When I use to live closer to a bunch of HT stores, I would aways demo a number of brands. Because I don’t live close to any of them now I’ll have to buy a system blindly (hence why I need your help!).

I’ll separate brands I’ve listened to highlight what I like and don’t like.
But I would be more comfortable with a name-brand company that sells not just bookshelfs and a center channel, but quality surrounds (preferably dipoles) as well.

--------------------------------------------------
What I find is that until you hit the “higher-end” of the low end (like the Atlantic Technology System 450) that generally speakers tend to sound more impressive with movies OR with music (But not necessarily both).

For example, let’s think of this as a scale:

--Movies ---------- ----------Music--

Left Side (Movies)
-Klipsch
-JBL

Right Side (Music)
-Jamo C800 concert series

And other brands I have listened to (like Tannoy and Energy) fall somewhere in the middle.

While movies, HDTV, and video games are what I listen to most, I have a good ear for music and prefer a “cleaner / more-accurate / warmer sounding music.

There were some other big box brands I heard that didn’t impress (like Polk Audio) but those other tests escape my memory right now.
--------------------------------------------------

From my previous sound demo’s these are my experiences:

I don’t like musically:
-Klipsch (any Reference series Bookshelfs including flagship RB-81 II)
-JBL

Are ok musically but didn’t sound exactly what I was looking for:
-Tannoy Revolution
-Energy Conniseur Series (wasn’t there Veritas line so maybe not a good indication of Energy’s potential)

I do like musically and are generally pleasant to the ears:
-Jamo C800 concert series
-Atlantic Technology System 450 (flaghship product from 2000 but Atlantic Technology speakers are way too high priced, not the “bang for buck” I was looking for)

Looking forward to your opinions, thanks guys for the help!

 

[highfigh]

Hi everyone:

I am looking for a 5.0 bookshelf type-system (e.g. no floorstanders) recommendation to go with my current system:

Do you not want larger speakers, or would you consider smaller speakers on stands?

 

[scattershot]

My suggestion is this:
Audiophile Loudspeakers and Subwoofers for Home Theater and Music - Ascend Acoustics, renowned speakers,subs,audio
Get Two pairs of Sierra-1 and one Sierra Center. Total : $2040+ shipping.
Add more for custom finishes.
You'll have 30 days in home trial to decide if you like them. AA have excellent customer service and their CS are active AH forums lurkers

p.s: I would not recommend Axiom, specifically their centers like VP150

THANK YOU for warning me off of the Axiom -- they are well below my budget so I can spend more money on speakers and didn't want to be disappointed in the Axioms.

Thank you for the Sierra-1 and Sierra Center recommendation. My only concern is that they don't make any dipoles but since the front 3 speakers are the most important by far -- not having a dipole rear isn't a dealbreaker.

So you are very confident in these Sierra speakers?

Thanks

 

[scattershot]

Also look at NHT
http://www.nhthifi.com/Three?sc=12&category=3772
http://www.nhthifi.com/Three-C?sc=12&category=3774
http://www.nhthifi.com/Absolute-Zero-Black?sc=12&category=3772

I am very comfortable with NHT as well since they have a rich hi-fi tradition.
I also like your KEF suggestions -- to be honest all 4 of your suggestions seem very intriguing so THANK YOU!

I'm leaning towards PSB right now, but the NHT and KEF will take some researching.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

THANK YOU for warning me off of the Axiom -- they are well below my budget so I can spend more money on speakers and didn't want to be disappointed in the Axioms.

Thank you for the Sierra-1 and Sierra Center recommendation. My only concern is that they don't make any dipoles but since the front 3 speakers are the most important by far -- not having a dipole rear isn't a dealbreaker.

So you are very confident in these Sierra speakers?

Thanks

I'm very confident in Ascend Acoustics as a brand due to many happy customers responses, 30 days home trails, easy to find and relevant measurements (which AA products excel in btw)

If I were you - I'd be looking into more economical CMT-340 SE model, but it doesn't have the refined appearance or a bit improved lower end extension as sierra-1 does, but they are very close.

The reason I recommend them is due to fact both AT and A.A. strive their best to provide you with most neutral and uncolored sound possible, the difference is A.A. is keeping the price low. I'm not saying they sound same, but same ballpark is more like it

Other brands including NHT offer same 30 days offer and in independent reviews measures very good.

One more brand worth considering which revived high praises from AH staff is Aperion new line - Venus :
Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker - Aperion Audio

 

[scattershot]

............why no floor standers????
.

Don't have the room for 2 large towers, at least not in the place I will be living for next 3-5 years.

But I was under the impression if I paired my bookshelfs with one of these bad boys:

SVS PB13-Ultra Subwoofer
SVSound - Box Subwoofers

I could get away with bookshelfs instead of towers on any digital sources (Blu-ray, DVD, etc.)?

Of course, if someone had another subwoofer recommendation I'm all ears but it's been my impression that the SVS PB13-Ultra's are amongst the best "Bang for buck" subs out there...

 

[GranteedEV]

Don't have the room for 2 large towers, at least not in the place I will be living for next 3-5 years.

Yeah, but a stand mount could still end up with the same footprint in the horizontal and depth axes.

I could get away with bookshelfs instead of towers on any digital sources (Blu-ray, DVD, etc.)?

|


eh bookshelfs still have dynamic limitations.

 

[scattershot]

Do you not want larger speakers, or would you consider smaller speakers on stands?

Right now floor standing tower speakers are not an option.

For the place I will be living in the next 3-5 years, smaller bookshelf type speakers on stands would be ideal.

In a perfect world, if the bookshelf’s were a maximum of 21" in height (or shorter) that would be a tie-breaker criteria that would let me choose brand X over brand Y, but with that said I could consider a bookshelf larger than 21".

My biggest concern is sound-quality (as I highlighted in my original post what I was looking for sound wise) and price
(I can budget $3000 ideally to a $4000 maximum for the 2 fronts, center, and 2 rears. So my bookshelf pair budget is ideally $1000 and up to a MAXIMUM of $1500).

Other factors I am considering for my decision would be:

-availability (e.g. do I have to pay huge import duties to get them shipped to British Columbia, Canada)
-is it a well-established brand (like PSB, Klipsch, NHT) so that I can feel confident they will be around or if I upgrade my speakers in the future will it be easier to sell them because of name recognition
-monopoles for the surrounds would be fine but dipoles are preferred

But at the end of the day, if like with the SVS PB13 Ultra subwoofers I have an overwhelming amount of people telling me that brand X is the "Best bang for buck" out there in my price range and it sounds great musically then that will be the brand I go with.

 

[scattershot]

PSB Imagine
PSB Imagine B (Dark Cherry) Bookshelf speakers at Crutchfield.com
PSB Imagine C (Dark Cherry) Center channel speaker at Crutchfield.com
I prefer bookshelf surrounds - however, this can be set dipole, bipole or dual monopole
PSB Imagine S (Dark Cherry) Tri-mode surround speakers at Crutchfield.com

The size of the PSB speakers seem to good to be true (Since they are relatively tiny in size compared to the other options I was looking at) and since they are a Canadian brand and I live in Canada they should be easy to find (without some of the huge price markups associated with some of the US brands where the Canadian distributors don't sell the units at par but mark them up like 35% over US MSRP!).

Has anyone else heard these PSB Speakers:
Imagine B Bookshelf:
Imagine B Bookshelf - PSB Speakers
Just curious what your thoughts might be on them.

I "might" be able to consider these as well (will need a loan to do so) but its a longshot if anyone has heard these what are your impressions on them musically:

Synchrony Two Bookshelf:
Synchrony Two B - PSB Speakers

Synchrony One Bookshelf:
Synchrony One B - PSB Speakers

Right now the PSB might be the front runners but I am a bit skeptical that with their small stature they can deliver such a high quality level of musical sound.
Has anyone out there heard any of the above PSB speakers?

My other concern with the 3 above PSB's is whether an all-in-one audio video receiver in the price range of the Onkyo TX-NR809:
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR809&class=Receiver&p=i
can actually power the things properly since they are 4 ohm speakers.

Thanks

 

[scattershot]

I'm very confident in Ascend Acoustics as a brand due to many happy customers responses, 30 days home trails, easy to find and relevant measurements (which AA products excel in btw)

If I were you - I'd be looking into more economical CMT-340 SE model, but it doesn't have the refined appearance or a bit improved lower end extension as sierra-1 does, but they are very close.

The reason I recommend them is due to fact both AT and A.A. strive their best to provide you with most neutral and uncolored sound possible, the difference is A.A. is keeping the price low. I'm not saying they sound same, but same ballpark is more like it

Other brands including NHT offer same 30 days offer and in independent reviews measures very good.

One more brand worth considering which revived high praises from AH staff is Aperion new line - Venus :
Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker - Aperion Audio

Buy AT you mean Atlantic Technology?
I loved my older Atlantic Technology System 450 speakers so if you are saying that Ascend Acoustics is similar in sound to Atlantic (albeit a lower end model due to pricepoint) and Ascend Acoustics has better pricing then Atlantic Technology I would definitely want to consider them.

NHT and Ascend Acoustics offering 30 days is nice since I won't be able to audition the speakers in a store so it's nice knowing I can return them -- just in case.

The Verus speakers are only $300 each, and I am budgeting around $1000 for a pair of bookshelfs (I could go up to $1500 a pair but trying to keep it to $1000 maximum per pair) so likely they are not high-end enough for me to consider?

I know that in the loudspeaker world price doesn't neccessarily mean sound quality and that there is a lot of "snake oil" out there that can lead to a $300 speaker outperforming a $1000 speaker.

Ideally I'm trying to find the "Best bang for buck" bookshelf speaker for between $700-$1000 (or up to $1500 if I get free up some more money) provided that my Onkyo 809 receiver will be suitable for those speakers... (since budget wise I can only afford an Onkyo 809 type receiver every 3-4 years).

 

[scattershot]

Yeah, but a stand mount could still end up with the same footprint in the horizontal and depth axes.


eh bookshelfs still have dynamic limitations.

Sorry while I would consider myself an AV Hobbyist, I would only be an "apprentice" audioholic so I don't know much technically about speaker design but I was under the impression that, to use a crude example:

A Klipsch RC-62 tower would be outperformed by a similar RB-81 bookshelf partnered with a very good subwoofer (like SVS PB13 Ultra).

You are saying that there are still noticeable sound improvements that the RC-62 tower would offer?

----------------------------------------

As for "Yeah, but a stand mount could still end up with the same footprint in the horizontal and depth axes."

I have a deep floating shelf (2 feet / 24" deep) extending from the wall at about ear level that I could put the 2 bookshelfs on and this way the large SVS subwoofer would go underneath one of the bookshelfs (where the speaker stand would normally be).

I am stuck for room up front to the left and right of my 60" TV so I had only 2 setup options:
1) no subwoofer and use floorstanding speakers.

2) no floorstander or speaker stands but I could employ a SVS PB13 Ultra subwoofer.

I felt that the SVS Subwoofer would greatly help the center and surround speakers so opted for option 2.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Buy AT you mean Atlantic Technology?
I loved my older Atlantic Technology System 450 speakers so if you are saying that Ascend Acoustics is similar in sound to Atlantic (albeit a lower end model due to pricepoint) and Ascend Acoustics has better pricing then Atlantic Technology I would definitely want to consider them.

yes

NHT and Ascend Acoustics offering 30 days is nice since I won't be able to audition the speakers in a store so it's nice knowing I can return them -- just in case.

And Aperion too

The Verus speakers are only $300 each, and I am budgeting around $1000 for a pair of bookshelfs (I could go up to $1500 a pair but trying to keep it to $1000 maximum per pair) so likely they are not high-end enough for me to consider?

I know that in the loudspeaker world price doesn't neccessarily mean sound quality and that there is a lot of "snake oil" out there that can lead to a $300 speaker outperforming a $1000 speaker.


Ideally I'm trying to find the "Best bang for buck" bookshelf speaker for between $700-$1000 (or up to $1500 if I get free up some more money) provided that my Onkyo 809 receiver will be suitable for those speakers... (since budget wise I can only afford an Onkyo 809 type receiver every 3-4 years).

This is what Gene mention as a "CON" for Verus bookshelf -

Raises the bar too high for the competition

Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker Review — Reviews and News from Audioholics
While the lower end is a bit weaker, they still measure very nicely at they are a bargain at 300/ea

 

[GranteedEV]

A Klipsch RC-62 tower would be outperformed by a similar RB-81 bookshelf partnered with a very good subwoofer (like SVS PB13 Ultra).

You are saying that there are still noticeable sound improvements that the RC-62 tower would offer?

I think both will suck

That's really a difficult comparision - one uses an 8" woofer and the other uses two 6.5" woofers. In this case the main advantage of the tower is that it'll probably just extend bass deeper - which I agree is somewhat useless with a subwoofer.

However you have to consider that most of the time the tower equivalent of a stand mount speaker, has a larger, more robust driver handling the region from 60hz to 400hz, which a lot of power is required.

If you cross a subwoofer over at 80hz, you still need a speaker that won't strain from 80hz to 400hz. A 6.5" driver can only go so loud and still has to move a lot in that mid bass region. So to blend smoothly to a sub you need mains that can keep up. Some stand mount mains CAN keep up - like the JTRs I mentioned. I'm just saying that often times, bookshelfs just lose composure at high volumes, because you're asking too much out of tiny drivers.

I have a deep floating shelf (2 feet / 24" deep) extending from the wall at about ear level that I could put the 2 bookshelfs on and this way the large SVS subwoofer would go underneath one of the bookshelfs (where the speaker stand would normally be).

Despite the "bookshelf" moniker, I don't really like this idea. There's going to be a big diffrraction off this bookshelf edge that won't be all too great for the sound quality.

1) no subwoofer and use floorstanding speakers.

2) no floorstander or speaker stands but I could employ a SVS PB13 Ultra subwoofer.

3) subwoofer near the back of the room instead of up front

 

[sholling]

16x11 is pretty small-to-medium size room which should be pretty easy to pressurize unless its open to other spaces.
Klipsch is known for their bright sound and some people find it harsh. AT speakers are much higher stock and play more neutrally.

To get the sound YOU LOVE - you need to listed to speakers, hopefully before purchasing or at-least to be able to return them.

My suggestion is this:
Audiophile Loudspeakers and Subwoofers for Home Theater and Music - Ascend Acoustics, renowned speakers,subs,audio
Get Two pairs of Sierra-1 and one Sierra Center. Total : $2040+ shipping.
Add more for custom finishes.
You'll have 30 days in home trial to decide if you like them. AA have excellent customer service and their CS are active AH forums lurkers

+1 this idea.