Help me with putting together a bit more than entry level hi-fi system!

A

aah57

Audiophyte
Hi everybody,

I am yet another more or less clueless individual about the world of hi-fi. I want to put together a hi-fi system in the range of ~10K USD. Given the myriad of brand names out there, I am just getting more and more confused. What I want is
1. pre-amp 2. Stereo Power Amp (solid state or hybrid depending on your recommendation). 3. A pair of floor-standing speakers. For days I have been through a series of sites ranging from the likes of NAD and Marantz to Krell and McIntosh. I listen pretty much to everything: classical, pop, rock, trance, etc! Almost all of my music is in mp3 320 bitrate or .flac .. Everything is streamed from a NAS server to a Mac Mini and then onto the AMP. Do I also need a DAC for this setup?

A. have been looking at the Bowers and Wilkins CM9 speakers and they just seem perfect for my situation (btw, this is going to be setup in a large living room). I believe these are going to set me back about ~5K brand new. So I am left with another 5K. Suggestions alternatives are much welcomed.

B. I would like to have a set of McIntosh SOHO II (CM302, and C48), but at 18K that remains more of a dream for the time being. Some day, perhaps. So, I need your suggestion here as well for a set within or marginally exceeding my price range.

Currently, I own a Vincent SA331 amp, and SA31 pre-amp with a pair of Audio Physics Yara II superior speakers. Bought them a few years back. I did not know any better and made the purchase. Not too impressed with the setup. This time I want to do it right.


I am open to all ideas. So, help. Please! Many thank...
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I take it you are not in the US? First of all, I think you are spending way too much on electronics. Electronics won't make a difference past a point. I would just get a upper end AVR from Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, or Pioneer. Maybe some separate amps if you like high volumes. As for speakers, you should go out and audition different ones to see what you like. If it were me, I wouldn't bother with floorstanders, I would just get some bookshelf speakers and some subwoofers. If you need something that looks good and performs well, I would go for some KEF R series. If you aren't concerned about looks, I would get some JBL LSR 6332 monitors: it will be hard to top them for sheer neutrality, and they are a lot less expensive than CM9s. I would get a couple subs, in Europe you can get some SVS subs, maybe a couple of PB13 Ultras. Stack some LSR6332s on some PB13s and you have a near perfect flat response from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. That can all be done easily for less than $10k.
 
A

aah57

Audiophyte
Hi ShadyJ,

I take it you are not in the US?
Correct!
I think you are spending way too much on electronics.
Fortunately or unfortunately very true!

Purchasing an AVR is a no go. Why? Because this setup will be away from my TV and whatever that feeds it. As for the AVR, back in '09, I purchased a DENON AVR-2311 with a set of Canton CDII speakers. They're doing the job. No complaints.

I must say, what I am interested in is not going to be a every-other-year must-upgrade project. I am selling my current system (Vincent/AP) as soon as I replace them with something solid to suit me for the long-run (10+ years).

BTW, your prompt response to my OP is much appreciated!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
You don't need a TV to gain a lot benefit for AVRs. The sophisticated room correction equalization alone can make an AVR purchase worth it. Anyway, for a long-lasting system, I would place more emphasis on the speakers anyway, as they will likely last longer and have far greater effect on sound quality than whatever electronics you buy. Hell, for that reason alone you may want to think about getting some passive subs instead of active subs. Some decent speakers and passive subs can last a lot longer than 10 years if you don't abuse them, but it's kinda a crapshoot with electronics no matter how much you baby them. For some nice passive subs, I would look into contacting Funk Audio for something passive using the TSAD18 driver.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
McIntosh is way over-priced and not worth it - they are not much better than a real
good AVR.

With that high budget, audition speakers - do not go by the perception of sound.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
If you are going for a high end music system, I wouldn't use an avr, in pure direct mode {how you are most likely going to listen to music} all of that is bypassed..

If I were looking to spend 10K on a music only system I would opt for a 2.2 with as short a path as possible...
The Emotiva XSP-1 Differential Reference Preamp | Emotiva Audio | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifi pre amp
XPA-2 | 300W x 2 | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifier
XDA-2 USB DAC/Digital Preamp/Headphone Amp | Emotiva Audio Corporation | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel
6 of these the size you need 1 for each stereo ch and 1 for each sub then 2 to hook in the dac X Series Balanced XLR | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock ampl

that will get your electronics done for around $2000

Now onto subs...

Not sure if HSU ships to your country but you can find some decent sealed subs that compare... ULS-15 DualDrive Packages

and for towers I would personally opt for bookshelfs but if you like towers and if they ship to your country Sierra Tower Bamboo Loudspeaker is hard to beat...

finish it up with a nice stand and decent set of speaker cables
Amazon.com - VTI Audio/Video Tower BL304 Four Shelf Component Rack - Home Speaker Stands
Choseal lb 5109 8 2ft OCC 6N Speaker Loudspeaker Cable 2 5M OD19 Banana Plug | eBay
I have heard that system and its amazing, you won't find better for less money, some will say "power it with a $500 avr or stereo receiver" but to me that is not an option... thats why you come to a forum for ideas to get it from different sources... good luck..
 
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zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Do not go over-board, with high price speaker cables - not worth it.
 
A

aah57

Audiophyte
hi guys! many thanks for the replies. Interestingly, all of you are unanimously dissuading me from investing in anything that is going to set me back more than a couple of grand... and most of you are apparently more in favor of bookshelf speakers? Why!?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
hi guys! many thanks for the replies. Interestingly, all of you are unanimously dissuading me from investing in anything that is going to set me back more than a couple of grand... and most of you are apparently more in favor of bookshelf speakers? Why!?
I did not say only spend a couple of grand - spending more is fine - Nothing wrong with buying amps,
I would not get carried away with McIntosh equipment - extra money, does not guarantee the sound,
and that for sure goes with inter-connects and speaker cables. It is always good to tame the Illusion.
Put more into your speakers and subwoofer.

The bookshelf and tower debate will continue till the end of the world. Nothing wrong with tower speakers.
However with a good subwoofer, bookshelf speakers can really work well and shine > for imaging and the
sound stage presentation. In general compared to towers at the same price point, I would tend to prefer
bookshelf speakers.

It all comes down to preference and taste - along with needs or power requirements > and the placement
situation or limitations.

Do not get caught up in one particular brand - and watch out for those who guarantee, or promise you this,
or that is the best. No one can speak for your personality or your ears.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The reason why there are so many recommends for bookshelf speakers is because if you use subwoofers, the extra bass extension on tower speakers is useless. With towers, you are paying a great deal for a range of frequencies you won't use if you properly set up a subwoofer with them. And a good subwoofer can do bass a lot better than the vast majority of tower speakers. Also, whatever electronics you will be using isn't likely to affect the sound quality, so there is no sense in spending a lot on fancy amplification. Also, like what was said above, stay away on expensive cables. If you want some solid cables, go with Blue Jeans; it isn't as if more expensive cables are going to make the sound better.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I recommend that you spend most of your budget on speakers. They will affect the sound more than anything else you buy. You should go listen to as many different types of speakers (e.g., ribbon, horn, dome, whatever) as you can find, of as many different brands as you can stand to listen, with all of the types of music to which you normally listen, with music with which you are familiar (if copyright laws allow it in your country, making a CDR for this is a good idea). Take your time and buy whatever you like best.

I personally would be looking at Magnepan speakers, and recommend that you audition some if there is a dealer in your area.

As for wires, there is no need for anything expensive; expensive wires are a waste of money.

With electronics, you can generally go very inexpensive there as well. The only exception is if you buy speakers that are difficult to drive, and then you need to buy a robust amplifier to deal with them (I have some 3 ohm speakers with which I use a reasonably expensive amplifier, but with my home theater, I use a receiver, because the speakers in my home theater are not difficult to drive). Even so, it does not need to be crazy expensive, it just needs to be rated for enough power into the right impedance.

I would be looking at speakers that cost up to $9k with your budget, though if the ones you want are difficult to drive, you will not be able to afford them with an amplifier to drive them. However, not all expensive speakers are difficult to drive, and so it may be fine. Even if you do select difficult to drive speakers, you can still get away with spending at least $7k on them, as a really robust power amp can be had for $2k, and $1k is more than enough for the preamp and digital to analog converter.


Also, you could continue to use the power amp and preamp that you already have, and thus spend even more on the speakers alone. I would not have purchased what you have, but I would use it if I had it. I would buy solid state and no tubes. But, again, as long as what you have works, there is no need to replace it. And you can continue to use whatever wires you already have. So you might even be able to get away with spending the whole $10k on speakers.
 
A

aah57

Audiophyte
(I have some 3 ohm speakers with which I use a reasonably expensive amplifier, but with my home theater, I use a receiver, because the speakers in my home theater are not difficult to drive).

Pyrrho, this is exactly the setup that i want, as my avr (5.1) is setup in my tv area which is about 18ft (L) X 15ft (W) .. pretty squarish area. the pre-amp + amp + speakers is going to be setup for another livingroom area which is about 75ft (L) x 24ft(W).. a stretched up rectangular area.. this setup has nothing to do with my squarish tv area.. i just want a setup that is crisp and fills up the room in the morning when i'm listening to my classical music, and be warm and bassy enough when i am having guests rockin pop music or whatever that uplifts the mood...

recommendation in terms of setup: so far it seams two speakers with a sub/w seems more suited to my situation.

brands? both for amp and pre-amp?! and speakers? So far we have had Magenpan, KEF R, and JBL 530.. Anything else on your minds? Anyone else wants to chime in!? thans!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
recommendation in terms of setup: so far it seams two speakers with a sub/w seems more suited to my situation.

brands? both for amp and pre-amp?! and speakers? So far we have had Magenpan, KEF R, and JBL 530.. Anything else on your minds? Anyone else wants to chime in!? thans!
Lol, JBL 530s on a 10k budget, I think you can do better. JBL Sythesis series might be worth a look though. Also, for subs, you ought to get two instead of one. Not for huge output, but to address room acoustics, which hurt bass more than anything. I would get two subs and something with Audyssey's SubEQ to calibrate them. The Denon AVR-X4000 has this feature. I would still get an SPL meter to make sure the response is good. With Maggies you will need a separate amp. You probably wouldn't need a separate amp with the KEFs. Don't automatically buy separate amps until you have determined what speaker you want. Some speakers just won't need them, but with others its a good idea to get a standalone amp.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
I know a lot of guys are going to tell you not to spend money on speaker wires, but I think they take this a little too far, sure don't buy these AUDIOQUEST WILD WOOD SPEAKER CABLES (PR) at Music Direct but when building a nice 2 channel system, you are going to be able to see your cables in 99% of the systems I have seen, so imo aesthetics play a good sized role in the experience, and for the people that think they don't then please show me the $15,000 speaker that comes with a spray painted or vinyl finish, they don't exist, they come with exotic veneers and expensive flawless gloss finishes with attractive grills and contoured/shaped cabinets...

When spending $5K+ on a system there is nothing wrong with having it look good, a pair of $90 cables will serve you well and look impressive honestly, you can get some really nice cable sets for under $150 a pair.... The choseals I linked you to in an earlier post are amazing for the money, they are HUGE, well made, and attractive... I have them on one of my systems and people notice them more than than the $3000 speaker set...

I have seen many nice systems in many nice homes and not one of them had $1 per foot spool cables strung behind them... Lets face it , if you are spending 10K on a music only system you don't live in a 3rd floor walk up with a leaking roof and throw rugs over carpet...

So don't let these white devils make you feel bad about wanting something attractive, pay attention to every aspect of your system and make sure it impresses you with its sound and looks....

When I think of a high end music only system, I picture cloth covered cables, a pair of monoblocks, spikes on every component that touches the floor, no cables touching the floor, ect... Sure risers, fancy cables, and spikes are most likely not going to effect your sound in an audible way {mono blocks may, I prefer them but when the cost is just a small amount more, I wouldn't pay double for them} but they will give your system an appearance that sets it apart from a boombox on a window sill...
 
K

kzaudiovideo

Banned
If I have the money to spend, I wouldn't care how expensive my set up is as long as it give you great quality audio.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
recommendation in terms of setup: so far it seams two speakers with a sub/w seems more suited to my situation.

brands? both for amp and pre-amp?! and speakers? So far we have had Magenpan, KEF R, and JBL 530.. Anything else on your minds? Anyone else wants to chime in!? thans!
A former owner/tester did prefer the Studio 530 over Magenpan and KEF, so do
not under-estimate them.

With your budget I also recommend that you look into
Montitor Audio GX100
http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/products/gold-gx/gx100/

And Focal Aria
Aria 906 - Focal

Now how you finish out you system, it is your call - I for one will put more into
the sound nature, which is the speakers - not that which is less important.

However, that is your choice/preference and call.

I would prefer giving to charity, before buying expensive cables.:)
 
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Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Pyrrho, this is exactly the setup that i want, as my avr (5.1) is setup in my tv area which is about 18ft (L) X 15ft (W) .. pretty squarish area. the pre-amp + amp + speakers is going to be setup for another livingroom area which is about 75ft (L) x 24ft(W).. a stretched up rectangular area.. this setup has nothing to do with my squarish tv area.. i just want a setup that is crisp and fills up the room in the morning when i'm listening to my classical music, and be warm and bassy enough when i am having guests rockin pop music or whatever that uplifts the mood...

recommendation in terms of setup: so far it seams two speakers with a sub/w seems more suited to my situation.

brands? both for amp and pre-amp?! and speakers? So far we have had Magenpan, KEF R, and JBL 530.. Anything else on your minds? Anyone else wants to chime in!? thans!
You need to decide on your main speakers before deciding on anything else, or, if you are planning on subwoofers, at the same time, as there is no point in spending extra on main speakers for deeper bass if you are going to use subwoofers anyway. With my home theater, I briefly thought about going with the tower speakers that use the same tweeter and midbass driver as my bookshelf speakers, but had an additional, larger woofer, but they would have cost me about twice as much as my bookshelf speakers (which retailed for $1500/pair), and since I use a subwoofer anyway (actually, two, but the principle is the same regardless), there was no point in spending the extra money to get the tower that could do bass that the subwoofer could easily handle anyway.

But you first need to figure out what speakers you want, and then you worry about the amplification to drive them. If you have difficult to drive speakers, then you need to spend more on the amplifier, but if your speakers are easy to drive, then something modest will be fine. This has nothing whatever to do with price or sound quality; some very expensive and good speakers are easy to drive, some are difficult to drive. Pick the ones you like the sound of best, and then pick amplification appropriate to them.

Magnepan speakers are generally 4 ohm speakers (all of them that would be appropriate for your budget are 4 ohms), and honestly 4 ohms (i.e., without nasty dips in the impedance curve). They are best with an amplifier rated for 4 ohm use (but it does not matter if it is able to deal with lower impedances) and plenty of power is a good idea with them as well. So with them, you will need to spend more on an amplifier than with some other speakers, but not as much as some others (there are some 1 ohm Apogee speakers that have been made, and for those, really robust amplification is required). A famous example of an expensive speaker that requires very little power and can be driven by virtually anything is the Klipschorn. I have heard a pair of them driven by a boombox (seriously), and it was not bad.

(The reason for the boombox driving them was that the owner's house had been broken into and his electronics were stolen. The Klipschorns were too big and heavy to be easily taken, and were not stolen. He still had a boombox, so he hooked it up and used that until he got replacement gear. Klipschorns are rated as 8 ohms, with a sensitivity of 105dB @ 1 W @ 1 M, so even 1 watt will get higher volume than you would be wise to listen to for an extended period of time.)

Anyway, listen to a bunch of different speakers before making up your mind. At your price, I would probably go with the Magnepan 3.7, and maybe add a couple of SVS subwoofers. However, what I would do is a function of what I like, as well as what I can get in the U.S. for the money we are discussing; they may not be available in your country, and consequently I may do something else if I were there. But regardless, you should listen to speakers with radically different designs from each other, as well as "ordinary" designs, and pick the ones you like. It does not matter what anyone else prefers. It is only after you have decided on speakers that it makes sense to look at amplifiers, as what you need there will be dependent upon the speakers. 1 ohm Apogee speakers require significant amplification, Klipschorns don't need anything special at all (just a really low noise floor), and so if you want to get the best sound for your money, you will not be buying an amplifier until after the speakers are selected.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Can you post a picture of the 75X24 room? thats 1800 sq feet and I am thinking you are going to need something STRONG to fill that with sound? Post a couple pics so can better help you...
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Need to confirm that the 75 ft is not a mis-print.

If 75 ft is for real and you need room-filling sound - then will need to go bigger,
and/or higher sensitivity.
 
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