Help me improve my setup - First Post!

[jdp1980]

Hello, newbie here just looking for ways you think I can make this setup better, thanks.

Denon S760H Atmos 5.1.2, Polk Signature Series speaker set with S55 tower speakers.

 

[MalVeauX]

Hi,

1) Get that center closer to ear level and off your shins at that distance. It's not even angled up at your ears. You're basically listening to it nearly off-axis so it probably has significant SPL drops in crucial frequency ranges and doesn't sound right. Raise the TV if you have to, to accommodate. At the very least, use something to angle the face of your center at your ear level and not at your shins/knees.

2) Get a 2nd sub (behind you).

3) Get those atmos speakers on the ceiling facing you, instead of upfiring reflections. You can mount them with brackets on the room and aim at the listening position on-axis.

4) Move the surrounds farther away, get some distance so that all the seating on that couch is on-axis to both speakers. And do something about these cables, they're just flapping in the wind begging to get yanked.

Very best,

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Doesn’t look too bad. But I agree with MVX’s points. One big one is that, unless I’m mistaken those are just regular BS(bookshelf) speakers set as upfiring modules. Regular speakers really can’t serve that way, and since there’s no acoustic shielding, you’re likely hearing more of the sound from them directly than you would overhead. DAE speakers have a notch filter in the XO that helps trick the brain into thinking sounds are overhead. That filter combined with the sound actually bouncing off the ceiling is how you hear sound overhead. I would recommend at the very least installing them in the height positions where the wall and ceiling meet. ON the ceiling would be better with a single pair in a 5.x.2 configuration but that can be a deal breaker for many.

 

[Trell]

More distance between the mains works be good too. Same for the surrounds.

 

[jdp1980]

Doesn’t look too bad. But I agree with MVX’s points. One big one is that, unless I’m mistaken those are just regular BS(bookshelf) speakers set as upfiring modules. Regular speakers really can’t serve that way, and since there’s no acoustic shielding, you’re likely hearing more of the sound from them directly than you would overhead. DAE speakers have a notch filter in the XO that helps trick the brain into thinking sounds are overhead. That filter combined with the sound actually bouncing off the ceiling is how you hear sound overhead. I would recommend at the very least installing them in the height positions where the wall and ceiling meet. ON the ceiling would be better with a single pair in a 5.x.2 configuration but that can be a deal breaker for many.

That's exactly what I did lol because there are no Atmos Polk Signature Series speakers. I can't mount on the ceiling and don't want to do the walls (apartment), do you think they're better than if I had nothing at all?

 

[jdp1980]

Hi,

1) Get that center closer to ear level and off your shins at that distance. It's not even angled up at your ears. You're basically listening to it nearly off-axis so it probably has significant SPL drops in crucial frequency ranges and doesn't sound right. Raise the TV if you have to, to accommodate. At the very least, use something to angle the face of your center at your ear level and not at your shins/knees.

2) Get a 2nd sub (behind you).

3) Get those atmos speakers on the ceiling facing you, instead of upfiring reflections. You can mount them with brackets on the room and aim at the listening position on-axis.

4) Move the surrounds farther away, get some distance so that all the seating on that couch is on-axis to both speakers. And do something about these cables, they're just flapping in the wind begging to get yanked.

Very best,

Definitely thinking of mounting the TV on the wall to put the center on the top of the entertainment center. I'm in an apartment so for now more bass is out of the question. Since I'm kind of out of usable space do you think lowering the surrounds would get a similar effect to distance? I do the Denon Audyssey calibration so assumed it would make the best of the situation.

 

[OHMisback]

Read the book. I'm pretty sure you broke about 1/2 the rules. You did better than my neighbor she/he didn't take one
speaker out of the wrapper all the way. The speakers were everywhere BUT the best place. You're close. Boundaries/walls
are not your friend. Pull the main speakers away from the front wall, (24" is ok) Move your bottom away from the front wall.
The sub? Sit on it. or put it behind you. Try it out of phase too. Behind you.

You will improve the imaging a lot from that alone. Decent main speaker placement will image a center speaker better than most
center speakers. I know it would be better for you.. No idea with the other speakers. Sound effects? I guess? Nice looking, clean.

How it looks usually doesn't equate to great SQ. Read the book. If it says close to the wall. Get another book.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

That's exactly what I did lol because there are no Atmos Polk Signature Series speakers. I can't mount on the ceiling and don't want to do the walls (apartment), do you think they're better than if I had nothing at all?

Well fwiw, you don’t necessarily need to worry too much about timbre matching to the rest of the speakers, especially for bouncing them off the ceiling. So you could get some DAE speakers from a different brand, or jut roll with those how they are. Better than nothing at all? Since have them I’d say sure. But if you asked about buying them and installing them beforehand I’d say to save your money for the future. For the tv, you could just put it on some kind of riser so you don’t have to wall mount it.

 

[MalVeauX]

I'm in an apartment so for now more bass is out of the question. Since I'm kind of out of usable space do you think lowering the surrounds would get a similar effect to distance? I do the Denon Audyssey calibration so assumed it would make the best of the situation.

It's not about more bass, it's about the major null(s) you have from SBIR and from room harmonic orders. These are 100% calculable so you can avoid them and cover them. But the 2nd sub is about covering the major null your first sub is generating from its position so that the overall room response at your listening position is smoother. Since your first response to this was "more bass" this means you need to take some time and look at room acoustics, room treatment, etc so that you know what you're actually asking or doing and what responses even mean when you read them.

Lowering the surrounds is a bad idea. You want the tweeters at near ear height, for vertical dispersion of the speaker. Right now, they're so close to you that the other seat is pretty much at the limit or off-axis from the other one making for a boomy response from one speaker and not the other at each listening position. The purpose of separating them more is so that you get each listening position in the on-axis cone of each speaker so the response is more similar.

Firing your bookshelves at the ceiling isn't going to work right. There's two signals there, the original signal (at low SPL for being off axis big time) and the reflected signal which comes at a later time, also lower SPL. Which signal is your software calibrating to? How do you know? This is my point.

Also, you do not need the atmos speakers to be the same line as your other speakers. Especially not reflection based atmos. If you cannot mount on the wall or ceiling, due to being in an apartment, fine. Just accept the compromise and I'll drop it entirely since you can't do anything about this.

Currently your setup looks like a typical ad for a speaker line does. It looks nice as a picture, but it's mostly actually incorrect from an audio standpoint with the room and listening position relationship. We are not trying to dog on you. You asked what can be improved, and frankly, nearly all of it can be significantly improved with just placement changes. The absolute most common thing is to buy a bunch of stuff without knowing hardly anything, if anything about audio to begin with. It's ok. Now is the time to start filling the knowledge gaps so your next purchases matter more and so that your current use of what you have can be optimized and why.

Very best,

 

[jdp1980]

It's not about more bass, it's about the major null(s) you have from SBIR and from room harmonic orders. These are 100% calculable so you can avoid them and cover them. But the 2nd sub is about covering the major null your first sub is generating from its position so that the overall room response at your listening position is smoother. Since your first response to this was "more bass" this means you need to take some time and look at room acoustics, room treatment, etc so that you know what you're actually asking or doing and what responses even mean when you read them.

Lowering the surrounds is a bad idea. You want the tweeters at near ear height, for vertical dispersion of the speaker. Right now, they're so close to you that the other seat is pretty much at the limit or off-axis from the other one making for a boomy response from one speaker and not the other at each listening position. The purpose of separating them more is so that you get each listening position in the on-axis cone of each speaker so the response is more similar.

Firing your bookshelves at the ceiling isn't going to work right. There's two signals there, the original signal (at low SPL for being off axis big time) and the reflected signal which comes at a later time, also lower SPL. Which signal is your software calibrating to? How do you know? This is my point.

Also, you do not need the atmos speakers to be the same line as your other speakers. Especially not reflection based atmos. If you cannot mount on the wall or ceiling, due to being in an apartment, fine. Just accept the compromise and I'll drop it entirely since you can't do anything about this.

Currently your setup looks like a typical ad for a speaker line does. It looks nice as a picture, but it's mostly actually incorrect from an audio standpoint with the room and listening position relationship. We are not trying to dog on you. You asked what can be improved, and frankly, nearly all of it can be significantly improved with just placement changes.

Very best,

I appreciate the responses. What do you think about moving the sub behind the couch vs adding another? I use it at a very, VERY minimal loudness because the towers on their own kind of put me at the limit of neighbor complaints being in an apartment.

I meant lowering as in volume level, not speaker placement, since my space is limited moving the surrounds further out isn't an option, hopefully in the future I'll have a bigger place but most apartments are small and this one is on the bigger end of floorplans in my area so this will probably be the case.

I'm kind of stuck with the Atmos speaker situation, in the future I could see upgrading to proper speakers but for now since I already have them it's more of a "use them or don't use them" situation as I'd have no other use for them.

Understood, I came for advice, totally open to any critiques. I think the biggest change I can make right away is to move the center on top of the entertainment center. My hands are tied with the Atmos (unless you think they do more harm than good), rear speakers just don't have the room to be moved out more, how about the towers? Should I try to space them further out? Just trying to make the best out of my situation.

 

[MalVeauX]

Hi,

So, where your sub is placed relative to your listening position matters quite a lot, both from a room harmonic order standpoint, SBIR standpoint, but also just the SPL itself. The farther you are from a speaker, the higher the SPL has to be to be at the target SPL at your location. It falls off by -6db every time you double the distance. So if you move the sub away and want to hear it at 75db SPL you'd have to increase the volume the sub, as it goes farther away, to make that happen. This means everyone else gets to hear higher SPL too. If you move the sub to be right near you, the distance is much less, and so less volume from the sub to reach the SPL you want at your listening position. So you get the same SPL with less power. That means your neighbors hear less of it because they're farther away from the sub than you.

I would not lower the volume on your surrounds. Instead, use placement. Imagine 30 to 60 degree cones coming from their faces. Place them so that both seats are within the 30 degree cone if you can, or at least within the tightest towards center of a 60 degree cone at the least. Keep them at ear level.

Your atmos situation is dire. Your only option is stands or reflection based stuff. You can either get creative about how to get speakers on the ceiling/wall boundary like heights, or you can just keep doing what you're doing. It's understandable that you cannot cut holes or drill. That's fine. Sometimes there's just no option when compromising. You can either try to make the most of up-firing reflection based atmos effects. Or you can try to get creative with placement of those speakers higher on the wall and aimed at your listening position, like height speakers. It's not the same thing as atmos. But then again, a single channel up firing doing atmos is also not really atmos. It's just.... different. You either like what it does, or it doesn't do much. That's up to you to decide.

Very best,

 

[Wardog555]

No ceiling speakers means no Dolby atmos. It's as simple as that. If you are unwilling to have speakers where they are designed to be then you need to figure out a way to do so if you are wanting Dolby atmos. Even if you have posts to mount the speakers to and point downwards to the MLP.

The only reason I have ceiling speakers for atmos is that's where they deliver the most optimal and authentic Dolby atmos experience possible.

Another upgrade would be changing the subwoofer to svs or those other popular recommendations from those in the USA if you also from there

Wish you the best.

 

[jdp1980]

I have moved my center speaker up on top of the entertainment center, tilting it up toward the ear. spaced out my towers about 7" (most I can do with my space) and have moved the rears from being directly behind the couch to the sides of the couch facing inward as suggested on many Dolby Atmos "how to setup your speaker" guides. Thoughts?

 

[MalVeauX]

Good start. No re-run your room correction routine on the AVR with the changes.

Very best,

 

[Wardog555]

I actually thought your placement in the photo for the surrounds was great!
The Dolby guide diagrams now state 110-120 degrees while the old one was 90-110. It's possible that you have seen the diagrams and placement suggestions based on the old previous angles.
I have mine at roughly 90 degrees and yes I would much prefer them being behind me more. And I put them there well before I found out about the updated angles earlier this year.

 

[j_garcia]

You can flip the atmos speakers the other way and have them fire up at the wall and use reflection to achieve the effect and will reduce/eliminate direct sound. Not as good as putting them up high though. Those who say this doesn't work haven't tried it and are not speaking from experience.

If you have room behind you, I would actually move the rears further back. Calibration, Dolby recommendations... blah blah, I've had them both ways and further behind sounds better. My current setup they are close like yours thanks to a dinner table, and if you sit closer to either one, it is all you hear. It works, but it only works best when you are in the sweet spot.

Speakers radiate spherically, not conically, but the tweeters tend to "beam" more and have a smaller sweet spot typically, so orientation has a big effect. Experiment and you can often find the best option for your exact setup. Dolby recommendation is a guideline, not a hard and fast rule, since they don't know what your room is like.