Help Improving SQ for two channel?

[ryanosaur]

If I simply google "Martin Logan 60XT" (I was just making sure I got the model number right), both Crutchfield and Best Buy pop up with the price at $1200 ea.!
I don't know if this is a temporary special or the current street price.
I did see them still being sold somewhere(?) at $1500ea.

1200 each for those towers is a good price! wonder if its just summertime sales or the beginning of a refresh or phase out?

 

[KEW]

I know this is almost true (probably not 100%) for the older models. Now, I have the impression that the entry level ones don't, but probably all the 4K models do.

Thanks for keeping me honest!
I have picked up a couple of Sony BD players from my local Goodwill for less than $15 each which have SACD capability, and got it in my mind that they all must. I never looked at their least expensive models!
My Oppo has lots of cool features & connectivity; and the "feel and touch" is higher quality than the more plastic Sony, but for long term durability, I don't expect the Oppo will keep up with the Sony. I have a couple of Sony CD players well over 20 years old that just keep running without a hiccup!

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for keeping me honest!
I have picked up a couple of Sony BD players from my local Goodwill for less than $15 each which have SACD capability, and got it in my mind that they all must. I never looked at their least expensive models!
My Oppo has lots of cool features & connectivity; and the "feel and touch" is higher quality than the more plastic Sony, but for long term durability, I don't expect the Oppo will keep up with the Sony. I have a couple of Sony CD players well over 20 years old that just keep running without a hiccup!

I'm pretty sure I've run across Sony players that exclude SACD playback (like my Sony PS3 did). I do have a couple from the S-series that do SACD, tho.

 

[KEW]

What are examples of equivalent speakers to the ML,s for less?

That is a very good question.
I'm afraid I was speaking in generalities!
IME, Martin Logan makes some very fine products. They also put a strong emphasis on fit and finish and sell at a premium price (as a general rule). I have one of their Grotto 10" servo subwoofers and a pair of their Vista electrostatic speakers. Both are very nice, but I would not have them if someone else wasn't willing to take the "depreciation hit" before I bought them second hand!
A year ago, I would have suggested the Philharmonic BMR at $1600/pr. as a less expensive, but equal (or better) speaker - better sound quality, but probably not as much dynamics if used in a larger room - however, they are now available from Salk for the same $2400.
Honestly, I did not realize the price on the Motion 60XT was being discounted by 20%. This does a lot to close the price gap between these speakers and their competitors! My impression was from when I listened to them about a year and a half ago. I was pleasantly surprised but they were not being discounted at the time and my memory was "very good speaker but not the best value"!
So, I would still want to weigh other options, but at $2400, I would consider these a good option!
I edited my earlier post to reflect this reflection!

 

[ryanosaur]

I still think Salk's price on the BMR is worth it... The BMR is that good.
At 1200 ea, the ML 60XT is good, and competitive to the Monitor Audio Silver 500, which I felt to be a better speaker than the 60XT... especially at the 60XT's retail price.
What's better for less? A tricky question. Most that have heard me share my experiences know I am not a KEF fan, even though I've commented they sound really nice. It's been a while since I looked, but the Q750 and Q950 should be considered strongly by anybody shopping for speakers. If you are getting up to $1800 per pair though... you should consider a moon shot though, and look at Salk and Ascend. I think the cost difference in this area is worth the consideration...
I'm not recommending going into debt over speakers... unless you want... but at the point where you are really struggling to make a decision, what becomes available from Ascend and Salk are stunning. For me, the Song Tower RT or the Song 3 is the best on the low end. But I love my experience with Raal tweeters.Ascend Sierra Towers with the Raal upgrade would be my next. Of course, the Salk BMR is still a winner.

 

[KEW]

Ascend Sierra Towers with the Raal upgrade would be my next. Of course, the Salk BMR is still a winner.

I second that!
I had essentially removed Ascend from my "recommend list" because Dennis/Philharmonic offered a clear (IMHO) better option for less money. Now that the BMR's and Philharmonitors are no longer being sold, Ascend become a great value!

I still think Salk's price on the BMR is worth it... The BMR is that good.

I defer to your judgement on that! I heard the ML 60XT's almost a year before I got my BMR's, and while a good speaker is a good speaker, would not trust myself to discriminate between two good speakers over such a long period. I know you heard the Phil3's (with the same RAAL and same general tuning as the BMR) and the 60XT in a comparatively short timespan!

 

[snakeeyes]

I'm pretty sure I've run across Sony players that exclude SACD playback (like my Sony PS3 did). I do have a couple from the S-series that do SACD, tho.

Ya the 6700 series has SACD but not 3700 series although a hybrid disc would play regular cd layer on any CD player just not SACD layer.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ya the 6700 series has SACD but not 3700 series although a hybrid disc would play regular cd layer on any CD player just not SACD layer.

It's pointless to play an SACD without the SACD layers, tho (unless perhaps it's a special mix/master for the redbook layer).

 

[snakeeyes]

It's pointless to play an SACD without the SACD layers, tho (unless perhaps it's a special mix/master for the redbook layer).

Right probably not worth explaining. I geeked out there. I do own a S3700 and it definitely won’t play SACD.

 

[lovinthehd]

Right probably not worth explaining. I geeked out there. I do own a S3700 and it definitely won’t play SACD.

I think that's why I went to the 6700 at the time too. My S5100s also do SACD.

 

[Grant.M]

Lots of great information from you guys, thanks y’all!

 

[Grant.M]

I believe PENG is right. All of the Sony BD players I have looked at had SACD, but I am not sure it is automatic.
In store, just look for the oval SACD (it says "Super Audio CD" under the oval) symbol like below, just to the right of the Bluetooth icon:

With a background in woodworking and soldiering, I think DIY is a pretty good option for you to save a little money.
There is a lot of overlap with this sub-forum, but you may want to post with a budget and query for suggestions on good DIY options on the AH DIY sub-forum here:

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/audio/diy-corner-tips-techniques.22/

If you have any insecurities on your skill level, you might consider building a couple of smaller (less expensive) surrounds before the mains. There is also the option of buying the crossover pre-built on some of the designs.

I’ll check out the DIY sub forum, I’ve got a couple kits in mind as well as a couple original designs I’ve been working on for the last couple months. And would you recommend using a good DAC with the Sony player, or would that not make a noticeable difference?

 

[KEW]

I’ll check out the DIY sub forum, I’ve got a couple kits in mind as well as a couple original designs I’ve been working on for the last couple months. And if would you recommend using a good DAC with the Sony player, or would that not make a noticeable difference?

Other people can get more into the technical details, but as far as I'm concerned if the digital signal is being converted with enough resolution to provide a great analog video image, I think the technology is developed enough to do the job for audio.
Another perspective - CD's were developed and mature by the mid 80's there were plenty of audio obsessed people then who carefully evaluated whether or not the digital media was up to the task! it is now three decades later with the tremendous increase in processing power that entails. The idea that you'd have to pay several hundreds of dollars for a DAC capable of doing the job with today's cheap processing power is kind of like paying megabucks for wires for your speakers!

 

[lovinthehd]

I’ll check out the DIY sub forum, I’ve got a couple kits in mind as well as a couple original designs I’ve been working on for the last couple months. And would you recommend using a good DAC with the Sony player, or would that not make a noticeable difference?

What do you plug the player into? It doesn't have a dac?

 

[Grant.M]

What do you plug the player into? It doesn't have a dac?

I would plug it into my AVR which does have an internal DAC (Yamaha RX-A2040). I’m just wondering if using an external DAC would provide better results since I typically listen in pure direct mode.

 

[Grant.M]

Other people can get more into the technical details, but as far as I'm concerned if the digital signal is being converted with enough resolution to provide a great analog video image, I think the technology is developed enough to do the job for audio.
Another perspective - CD's were developed and mature by the mid 80's there were plenty of audio obsessed people then who carefully evaluated whether or not the digital media was up to the task! it is now three decades later with the tremendous increase in processing power that entails. The idea that you'd have to pay several hundreds of dollars for a DAC capable of doing the job with today's cheap processing power is kind of like paying megabucks for wires for your speakers!

That makes sense! I’d pick one up used for a couple hundred most likely, but if it won’t make a difference I’ll just pocket that money for upgrades that’ll actually make a difference.

 

[lovinthehd]

I would plug it into my AVR which does have an internal DAC (Yamaha RX-A2040). I’m just wondering if using an external DAC would provide better results since I typically listen in pure direct mode.

The DAC is quite good in most avrs. You're just adding more in the signal path with an external dac. I've not been tempted once to use a separate dac instead of my avrs. YMMV.

 

[Grant.M]

The DAC is quite good in most avrs. You're just adding more in the signal path with an external dac. I've not been tempted once to use a separate dac instead of my avrs. YMMV.

That’s a good point, thanks for the solid info.

 

[JengaHit]

Have you tried EQ'ing with your Yamaha's YPAO vs pure direct? Wonder if that would make a difference.

 

[Grant.M]

Have you tried EQ'ing with your Yamaha's YPAO vs pure direct? Wonder if that would make a difference.

I actually spent several hours with the manual EQ checking output at 250Hz intervals with a spectrometer and flattening the response of the peaks the best I could based off the results. Although 7 bands wasn’t quite enough to cover everything perfectly. I like the sound better overall, but it is a trade off with less clarity.