Help identify a speaker configuration and benefits

[jkh4q]

Good Afternoon,

I ran across a DIY speaker build some time ago that I was interested in, but now I can't seem to find it nor can I remember what the configuration was called to look it up. Essentially, it was a two way speaker with the woofer firing downwards into a tube/box and a tweeter 90 degrees off of the woofer firing straight out towards the listener. If that doesn't make sense, take a look at the bayz audio counterpoint speaker. The woofer was in a similar configuration (though there was only 1), but there was a tweeter pointing outwards right next to where the woofer is on the bayz (maybe 3 to 4 inches from the woofer). Does anyone know what this type of speaker is called or or has done a build like this?

If you do know about this configuration, what are the benefits of using this type of speaker? Any information or similar systems that I could reference would be most appreciated.

JKH4Q

 

[ryanosaur]

without doing a cr@p ton of research, the woofer description sounds like it could be some sort or Horn-Loading of that driver.
If you would be kind enough to provide links and/or images and not ask us to play Google-Roulette for you, that'd be welcome.

 

[jkh4q]

The best I can do is provide the closest thing I have found today. It was basically the bottom half of the picture below with a tweeter residing where the silver line in the middle is. The other difference was that the tube coming off of the woofer went down and into a box which was ported. I could be a bit off on the box configuration since I haven't seen the build in some months now, but that is how I recall it. If there is anything else I can provide, let me know.

 

[Pogre]

You're gonna have to do better than that... lol. Your description is just confusing. Can you draw?

 

[Gmoney]

The best I can do is provide the closest thing I have found today. It was basically the bottom half of the picture below with a tweeter residing where the silver line in the middle is. The other difference was that the tube coming off of the woofer went down and into a box which was ported. I could be a bit off on the box configuration since I haven't seen the build in some months now, but that is how I recall it. If there is anything else I can provide, let me know.

View attachment 45122

they do look cool!

 

[ryanosaur]

they do look cool!

Unfortunately, looking cool and sounding great are often diametrically opposed conditions.

 

[Pogre]

Unfortunately, looking cool and sounding great are often diametrically opposed conditions.

I found a review of them. Apparently the tweeter is some sort of planar or ribbon. No measurements tho.

Bayz Audio Courante 2.0 Loudspeaker Review A new and innovative design in speaker technology. Review By Dr. Matthew Clott

Bayz Audio Courante 2.0 Loudspeaker Review A new and innovative design in speaker technology. Review By Dr. Matthew Clott of Enjoy the Music.com's Superior Audio Audiophile Music and Equipment Review Magazine

www.enjoythemusic.com

 

[jkh4q]

You're gonna have to do better than that... lol. Your description is just confusing. Can you draw?

Not well I can't, haha, but I gave it my best shot. Also I know it's confusing. That's why it's driving me so nuts that I felt compelled to come online to ask about it. The tube portions were made out of PVC, and I bet Ryanosaur is right in that the box was used as a sort of horn since the driver is pointing inwards.

I suppose this could have just been some weird contraption someone put together because they felt like it. I have never seen anything like this and at the time when I saw it, I thought, "that's weird." and then just moved on, but I keep thinking about it and why someone would even make something like this. And of course, now I can't find it or anything like it.

 

[ryanosaur]

I know these aren't the specific design OP was asking about, rather something similar.

Part of me is seeing this in his description; from Linkwitz Labs:

 

[Pogre]

Not well I can't, haha, but I gave it my best shot. Also I know it's confusing. That's why it's driving me so nuts that I felt compelled to come online to ask about it. The tube portions were made out of PVC, and I bet Ryanosaur is right in that the box was used as a sort of horn since the driver is pointing inwards.

I suppose this could have just been some weird contraption someone put together because they felt like it. I have never seen anything like this and at the time when I saw it, I thought, "that's weird." and then just moved on, but I keep thinking about it and why someone would even make something like this. And of course, now I can't find it or anything like it.

View attachment 45124

A+ for effort, ha ha!

Hey, at least we have some kind of visual reference now. Looks like @ryanosaur found something pretty close to it!

I know these aren't the specific design OP was asking about, rather something similar.

Part of me is seeing this in his description; from Linkwitz Labs:

View attachment 45126

That does look a lot like op's drawing! Ha ha!

Seriously tho, those do almost look like pvc pipe. Just missing the ported bass cab.

 

[jkh4q]

I know these aren't the specific design OP was asking about, rather something similar.

Part of me is seeing this in his description; from Linkwitz Labs:

View attachment 45126

Well now, That's incredibly close to what I remember. Anyone know what's going on with these things? Why are the drivers configured that way, for one, but also how does something like this sound?

 

[Pogre]

Well now, That's incredibly close to what I remember. Anyone know what's going on with these things? Why are the drivers configured that way, for one, but also how does something like this sound?

I imagine if engineered right they have a god chance of sounding pretty good. I know that Bayz speaker is considered a concentric speaker, meaning all the sound is coming from 1 point source which usually means very good imaging.

The up, or downfiring woofers are connected to basically a long port that's probably tuned to certain bass frequency. I dunno tho, I'm just taking shots in the dark. You got my curiosity piqued tho.

 

[ryanosaur]

Linkwitz Labs specialized in a lot of Open Baffle designs. I'm not cool enough yet to really understand what is going on with the photo I posted, but I have seen other similar concepts as well... So much depends on what's going on with the tube and whether it is ported or sealed. As far as I can tell, the direction of the driver doesn't really matter as long as it is connected properly for the driver's motor to move in-phase with the program being presented by any other drivers.
Take the Bayz example... if that tube is open all the way through it could be a push-pull or isobaric configuration, otherwise if the tubes are closed at the junction point, then it is just a type of resonant tube that may or may not coincide with a 1/4-wave tuning similar to a MLTL. The Tweeter Assembly in that speaker is clever in that it clearly supports the weight of the upper tube as well as being the tweeter housing.

For the drawing, it's almost a reverse Transmission Line with a Coupling Chamber a la Augspurger, except the driver and port would be reversed. Hard to describe that as a horn, but with the driver at the end and an expanding path for the backwave... You got me on a descriptor: it doesn't quite line up with anything I know/have seen.

If you want to read through the Linkwitz site, as I recall there is a bunch of design info there you may find interesting.

Otherwise, the only person I can think of that might have insight on OPs drawing is @TLS Guy . Perhaps he can share his thoughts on that design.

 

[jkh4q]

Linkwitz Labs specialized in a lot of Open Baffle designs. I'm not cool enough yet to really understand what is going on with the photo I posted, but I have seen other similar concepts as well... So much depends on what's going on with the tube and whether it is ported or sealed. As far as I can tell, the direction of the driver doesn't really matter as long as it is connected properly for the driver's motor to move in-phase with the program being presented by any other drivers.
Take the Bayz example... if that tube is open all the way through it could be a push-pull or isobaric configuration, otherwise if the tubes are closed at the junction point, then it is just a type of resonant tube that may or may not coincide with a 1/4-wave tuning similar to a MLTL. The Tweeter Assembly in that speaker is clever in that it clearly supports the weight of the upper tube as well as being the tweeter housing.

For the drawing, it's almost a reverse Transmission Line with a Coupling Chamber a la Augspurger, except the driver and port would be reversed. Hard to describe that as a horn, but with the driver at the end and an expanding path for the backwave... You got me on a descriptor: it doesn't quite line up with anything I know/have seen.

If you want to read through the Linkwitz site, as I recall there is a bunch of design info there you may find interesting.

Otherwise, the only person I can think of that might have insight on OPs drawing is @TLS Guy . Perhaps he can share his thoughts on that design.

Thanks for the information. This certainly gives me somewhere to start where I had absolutely nothing before.

 

[shadyJ]

I have heard those Linkwitz speakers before. They sound nice but they do not have a very wide dynamic range. They are fine for modest loudness levels or for listening in a small room. The woofer reaches its limits pretty easily.

I also heard those Bayz speakers when they were launched at a past AXPONA. Those did sound pretty good as I recall, but they better had for the 100K asking price.

 

[Beachman]

A day late and a dollar short? I know this response has come long after the snowy days of February nevertheless, I want to contribute.

Full Disclosure: I am the Business Development Manager at BAYZ Audio Bt, the manufactured of the Counterpoint, Courante, and yet-to-be-released Chaconne.

The late, great Siegfried Linkwitz was as congenial as he was genius. I considered him a friend and a kindred spirit as we both had the same goals: not to build a great loudspeaker per se but to reproduce realistically a live event in the comfortable confines of one's home. He chose an open baffle approach using DSP. His first attempt was the Pluto 2.1 (a really good bang for the buck!) as pictured by ryanosaur. His work culminated with the LX521, his best effort. The industry will miss him.

As a former BoD member, VP, and President of ALMA International, we awarded Siegfried "The Titanium Driver Award" in 2014 (or thereabouts). Siegfried passed away in 2018.

I must be careful not to advertise so I provide comments only to two posts:

1. BAYZ Audio's tweeters are absolutely not a planar nor a ribbon and definitely not linaeum. They cannot be described as similar to any current technologies because no one else has anything even close nor similar (the BRS technology is patented worldwide). And, they are plenty of measurements to be found showing that their response is north of 50kHz but additionally, they are still fully omni at 50kHz. The entire speaker system is best described as "concentric omni."

2. Another comment is that prices range from $48k to $165k. Yes, they are all very steep prices; but, we are filling the lineup with much more affordable offerings.

 

[Pogre]

A day late and a dollar short? I know this response has come long after the snowy days of February nevertheless, I want to contribute.

Full Disclosure: I am the Business Development Manager at BAYZ Audio Bt, the manufactured of the Counterpoint, Courante, and yet-to-be-released Chaconne.

The late, great Siegfried Linkwitz was as congenial as he was genius. I considered him a friend and a kindred spirit as we both had the same goals: not to build a great loudspeaker per se but to reproduce realistically a live event in the comfortable confines of one's home. He chose an open baffle approach using DSP. His first attempt was the Pluto 2.1 (a really good bang for the buck!) as pictured by ryanosaur. His work culminated with the LX521, his best effort. The industry will miss him.

As a former BoD member, VP, and President of ALMA International, we awarded Siegfried "The Titanium Driver Award" in 2014 (or thereabouts). Siegfried passed away in 2018.

I must be careful not to advertise so I provide comments only to two posts:

1. BAYZ Audio's tweeters are absolutely not a planar nor a ribbon and definitely not linaeum. They cannot be described as similar to any current technologies because no one else has anything even close nor similar (the BRS technology is patented worldwide). And, they are plenty of measurements to be found showing that their response is north of 50kHz but additionally, they are still fully omni at 50kHz. The entire speaker system is best described as "concentric omni."

2. Another comment is that prices range from $48k to $165k. Yes, they are all very steep prices; but, we are filling the lineup with much more affordable offerings.

Welcome to the forums and thank you for popping in here to explain some things to us! I remember this thread and found the speaker designs fascinating. I'd love an opportunity to listen to some of your speakers aometime.