Help diagnose my new speakers

[jostenmeat]

Hey guys, I just picked up an unused but very beat up pair of PSB Image T55s today. I was hunting for a single* T55 for my future center speaker, and I worked out a deal with my dealer. He was planning on fixing whatever was needed to sell these at discount, but just hasn't got around to it yet. Instead I bought these at dealer pricing, I do the work, and he will accommodate me by obtaining whatever part I need for free under warranty from PSB. This works for me because I can't see any blemishes anyway (if rather minor) behind a false screen wall, the final price is just about half of a pair anyways, and these don't sell individually AFAIK. I can look at it as a free speaker with some work, I'm hoping.

This pair got beat up somehow while still on the pallet. One works perfectly, but has two busted feet (don't care, they come with optional feet too in any case), and a couple/few dings blemishes. The broken feet pieces were everywhere inside the open box, and just about all the styrofoam was decimated. No visible holes on the exterior of box.

The other was already out of the box (because it was decimated), and the dealer said that when he plugged this* speaker in, there was no sound at all (but I found the tweeter still works today, read below). The very bottom front panel is completely off (unglued).

I hooked them both up (that's how I know the first one works fine), and the second one actually has a working tweeter. When at the store I immediately thought it must be the xover when listening to his story, and that's what the dealer is guessing too. So I took some pics, but can't include them all because some are so blurry. I tried no flash, but they didn't come out. I couldn't find anything that was disconnected, so I was hoping maybe someone can guide this speaker noob. Thanks. If anyone needs to see a particular part/angle/anything, I will be happy to oblige.

This is how the speaker looks front at bottom (panel is disconnected). What glue shall I use to reinstall it when the repair is complete?

I unscrewed both drivers just to look. The first is the upper mid driver, and the second is the beefier driver.

This is looking skywards from the bottom.

I unscrewed the terminal cup to look at the xover. I can't find anything peculiar yet, but I have no idea what to look for either.

Reverse angle

Thanks for looking!

Maybe I should try demanding a new xover and give that a shot? I could perhaps swap drivers from one speaker to the other? That seems like it fits the bill of the process of elimination?

 

[TLS Guy]

Disconnect the drivers and do the battery test. That will tell you if you have any blown drivers. If the drivers work, then copy the draw out the schematic of the crossover and I will tell you how to trouble shoot it. That looks like a nasty low end crossover by the way.

 

[zieglj01]

The PSB's Image series speakers for most parts - Have a low level
look to their crossover networks. However, they do sound pretty
good when working, and being in the proper phase.

 

[highfigh]

Well, for starters, the upper woofer doesn't have a magnet, so that will cause it to not put out any sound.

That speaker was clearly dropped and I would talk to the dealer about whether it came in that way, or if it happened at the store. Either way, it needs a replacement driver. I would also look at the bottom of the crossover and check for cracks on the copper traces. If it was dropped hard enough to dislodge the magnet, it could easily damage the crossover. Remove it from that cabinet and try it on the other speaker to check for bass/treble operation.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well, for starters, the upper woofer doesn't have a magnet, so that will cause it to not put out any sound.

That speaker was clearly dropped and I would talk to the dealer about whether it came in that way, or if it happened at the store. Either way, it needs a replacement driver. I would also look at the bottom of the crossover and check for cracks on the copper traces. If it was dropped hard enough to dislodge the magnet, it could easily damage the crossover. Remove it from that cabinet and try it on the other speaker to check for bass/treble operation.

Nor it does! I don't know how I missed that. Even if dropped it is pretty poor for the magnet to fall off. In a decent driver it should take a huge explosion for the magnet to come off. I have never seen that before.

After looking at those pictures, all I have to say is DIY, DIY and DIY!

 

[zieglj01]

Nor it does! I don't know how I missed that. Even if dropped it is pretty poor for the magnet to fall off. In a decent driver it should take a huge explosion for the magnet to come off. I have never seen that before.

After looking at those pictures, all I have to say is DIY, DIY and DIY!

Yes, I missed it too and I feel sorry for jostenmeat - the dealer
clearly wanted to move these speakers out.

 

[miniSQ]

psb makes some pretty crappy speakers...this reminds me of a psb subwoofer i picked up at a lawn sale 10 years ago...same crappy build quality.

they may sound decent..i have never heard them, but they are built like white van speakers.

 

[KEW]

Yes, I missed it too and I feel sorry for jostenmeat - the dealer
clearly wanted to move these speakers out.

Don't feel too sorry, their arrangement means JM gets a new driver to replace it.
If that is all that is wrong, he has an easy fix. I think the other option is that a Xover may also need to be replaced. Either way, not much difficulty to get them back in the game!

JM, I'd use epoxy for gluing and sealing the cabinet. Standard wood glue has water that dries as it cures and doesn't fill gaps the way epoxy will (but you still want to sand and clean all mating surfaces so the fit is as flush as you can reasonably get it).
Use a medium heavy book on top of the loose panel to "clamp" it down. About the only way you can screw up epoxy is gorilla-fisting clamps and squeezing the epoxy out of the joints.
If you are buying, "G/Flex 655" from West Systems is an excellent epoxy. It is a "repair viscosity" thickened epoxy and won't tend to shift or slide as it dries. A 8 oz kit will run about $25-30. You can find it at some marine stores or the internet. Most product literature is directed towards metal & plastic, but that is because those are the toughest customers. MDF is a cakewalk.
However, any normal epoxy will do the job. Get thickened if it is an option. Otherwise, be sure to check periodically during the cure time to make sure the panel has not shifted/slid sideways. This is a one time fix, so get 20 minute instead of 5 minute epoxy. This is the working time, not the cure time. Overnight should be fine for curing any epoxy.
Probably more info than you wanted or needed!

 

[zieglj01]

Don't feel too sorry, their arrangement means JM gets a new driver to replace it.
If that is all that is wrong, he has an easy fix. I think the other option is that a Xover may also need to be replaced. Either way, not much difficulty to get them back in the game.

He mainly only needed one speaker - this wiil give him a chance to
get invlolved in the DIY hobby field.

 

[highfigh]

Don't feel too sorry, their arrangement means JM gets a new driver to replace it.
If that is all that is wrong, he has an easy fix. I think the other option is that a Xover may also need to be replaced. Either way, not much difficulty to get them back in the game!

JM, I'd use epoxy for gluing and sealing the cabinet. Standard wood glue has water that dries as it cures and doesn't fill gaps the way epoxy will (but you still want to sand and clean all mating surfaces so the fit is as flush as you can reasonably get it).
Use a medium heavy book on top of the loose panel to "clamp" it down. About the only way you can screw up epoxy is gorilla-fisting clamps and squeezing the epoxy out of the joints.
If you are buying, "G/Flex 655" from West Systems is an excellent epoxy. It is a "repair viscosity" thickened epoxy and won't tend to shift or slide as it dries. A 8 oz kit will run about $25-30. You can find it at some marine stores or the internet. Most product literature is directed towards metal & plastic, but that is because those are the toughest customers. MDF is a cakewalk.
However, any normal epoxy will do the job. Get thickened if it is an option. Otherwise, be sure to check periodically during the cure time to make sure the panel has not shifted/slid sideways. This is a one time fix, so get 20 minute instead of 5 minute epoxy. This is the working time, not the cure time. Overnight should be fine for curing any epoxy.
Probably more info than you wanted or needed!

Wood glue fills small gaps just fine and the wood will fail before the glue does if it's assembled correctly. Weldbond II is great for just about any wood that doesn't have a high wax content, like teak or koa.

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks guys!! The damaged speaker was not simply dropped. There is no* box to even speak of. (Total decimation is my guess.) Who knows what happened to it?! Even the dealer has no idea, except that it was still on the pallet which seemed to confuse him. I have already followed up with him, and he says drivers, xover, feet, anything I need, no problem, free, and shipping is roughly a week he says. I am waiting to send the email with final list, replete with serial number of my speaker.

I know it will sound funny, but I feel I am actually lucky in this scenario. I've never ever seen these speakers sold individually, and even without the damaged speaker, with the one good speaker, I would have bought it still. Saved me a few hundred dollars. But, if I can fix this (which I should be able to eventually I hope), then I will have a pair that I can sell much, much more easily in the future. I find the coincidence that these are in the same finish in Sienna to be a boon somehow, hehe.

Swerd's enthusiasm for Skyline's build got me thinking pretty hard for a day about selling my front three, then roughly doubling that budget (if not more?) to build a new front three set of towers, as my first go at a DIY that's not a kit. The thing is I have a lot on my plate (well, for me that is), and one of the projects is a false wall with DIY screen frame. I think with the other things I'm getting myself into, along with HT renovation, doing three towers as my first DIY . . . it just might not be the right time. Finally, I'm spending much less this way, and I do like my speakers. So this way is easier, I get to a tiny wee bit of DIY for fun, cheaper, and these speakers are the best match for my 4 surround speakers too. TLS, Act 4 of Carmen reaallyy sounded *spectacular* on them, man . . . Oh, KEW, I don't think I told you, but I finally did pick up your first jazz rec, Ah Um, and I really dig it! As I expected I would, but I only got the 1 disc version (I found I didn't care nearly as much for alternate takes on Blues n Roots).

I appreciate the discussion with glue, thanks much, I am confident now that I will find the right product for the job.

So I picked up some alligator clips and 9V leads today, and the bass driver is working. My first 9V test was pretty fun! lol. I asked about their multimeters while I was there, $16, but I decided I'll just get one for the day I might need one, heh.

Good catch on the missing magnet highfigh! I failed to look under the driver, fearing stressing the terminals by pulling, and I thought gee this is light and must have some pinner magnet for upper mids or something. hahaha

The upper baffle is cracked, and the dealer says to use some silicone to make sure it's sealed. He advised against replacing it, even though I assume I could get this for free as well from PSB.

I have some apprehensions with testing the xover, where I'm hoping that you guys can assuage my fears. I used to have what I think was a decent soldering gun maybe 20 years ago, but now I have a cheapie iron that I've used only once, and I fear it doesn't get hot enough to quickly melt solder. Therefore, I'm afraid of hurting the xover if I have to apply the iron for significant stretches of time? I'll be ok if I go for it? I can't find any obvoius* break in the copper traces, if I'm not mistaken.

Should I just throw this speaker away? LOL

Missing magnet!!

Xover bottom

Xover side

This is what I will glue

The cracked baffle

This is the "good" speaker. I looked it over once, and I only find one blemish (bit of a doozie) on it; it's on the right edge of the baffle, directly right of the upper port:

This might make it more evident?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I don't understend where the magnet went. Was it in the bottom of the box or is it just gone?

 

[jostenmeat]

I don't understend where the magnet went. Was it in the bottom of the box or is it just gone?

Gone. No box. No instructions. No extra/optional feet or spikes. No styrofoam. And um no magnet. This speaker was just sitting in a very cramped storage room with the bottom disconnected panel sitting on top of it. I could see in the dealer's eyes that he was second guessing himself in giving me both, but I think I convinced him (I wanted to try, and even just getting the single speaker may have not saved me anything at all in pricing, but that's just a guess). I figure worst case scenario, I have a back up tweeter and bass driver. The drivers cost $75 and that's at dealer's cost.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Gone. No box. No instructions. No extra/optional feet or spikes. No styrofoam. And um no magnet. This speaker was just sitting in a very cramped storage room with the bottom disconnected panel sitting on top of it. I could see in the dealer's eyes that he was second guessing himself in giving me both, but I think I convinced him (I wanted to try, and even just getting the single speaker may have not saved me anything at all in pricing, but that's just a guess). I figure worst case scenario, I have a back up tweeter and bass driver. The drivers cost $75 and that's at dealer's cost.

I would have done the same thing. Why not take a free speaker?

 

[zieglj01]

Gone. No box. No instructions. No extra/optional feet or spikes. No styrofoam. And um no magnet. This speaker was just sitting in a very cramped storage room with the bottom disconnected panel sitting on top of it. I could see in the dealer's eyes that he was second guessing himself in giving me both, but I think I convinced him (I wanted to try, and even just getting the single speaker may have not saved me anything at all in pricing, but that's just a guess). I figure worst case scenario, I have a back up tweeter and bass driver. The drivers cost $75 and that's at dealer's cost.

Thanks for all the pictures - I guess that I was over concerned.
Also, looks like you have a good dealer. Enjoy!

 

[jostenmeat]

Hmm, I guess until someone does assuage my apprehensions with detaching xovers, I'm thinking of just asking for a new xover. Of course that means I have to detach it anyways, but this means I would never have to detach the xover in the properly working speaker.

If I didn't really need one, I'd feel slightly guilty about taking one from PSB, but if the bass driver is good . . . doesn't that necessarily point to the xover anyways? Thanks.

 

[zieglj01]

Hmm, I guess until someone does assuage my apprehensions with detaching xovers, I'm thinking of just asking for a new xover. Of course that means I have to detach it anyways, but this means I would never have to detach the xover in the properly working speaker.

If I didn't really need one, I'd feel slightly guilty about taking one from PSB, but if the bass driver is good . . . doesn't that necessarily point to the xover anyways? Thanks.

I would replace the crossover on the bad speaker - It stays on the
terminal plate. The new crossover will come attached to the new
terminal plate. That crossover looks to have been hit - for the most
part, it will save from future problems.

 

[jostenmeat]

I would replace the crossover on the bad speaker - It stays on the
terminal plate. The new crossover will come attached to the new
terminal plate. That crossover looks to have been hit - for the most
part, it will save from future problems.

Thanks! I will compose my email to the dealer right now.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Well, for starters, the upper woofer doesn't have a magnet, so that will cause it to not put out any sound.

That speaker was clearly dropped and I would talk to the dealer about whether it came in that way, or if it happened at the store. Either way, it needs a replacement driver. I would also look at the bottom of the crossover and check for cracks on the copper traces. If it was dropped hard enough to dislodge the magnet, it could easily damage the crossover. Remove it from that cabinet and try it on the other speaker to check for bass/treble operation.

Good eyes there I think it is missing more than just the magnet as it seems the voice coil is all that is left. It is nice and shiny though

 

[zieglj01]

Thanks! I will compose my email to the dealer right now.

However, just to be sure, let them know that you want the crossover
that is pre-assembled to the terminal plate.