help ... Denon 1708 Onkyo 605 or ????

[Motororo]

Hello

This is my first post and I was looking for a new receiver.

I want
7.1 ch
sound calibration (speaker size, distance, frequency correction)
multiband equalizer per channel
HDMI
video upscaling (hopefully Sony Pearl 1080p)
AV sync
trigger ???

I do not need
power (~50 Wrms is OK) (small room, 94db sensitvity speakers)
satellite radio
iPod dock

I have
Infocus X1 projecter (800x600) upgrade to Sony pearl (1920x1080)
Standard DVD (480p) eventual upgrade to Bluray ?? or HD DVD ???
Cable TV (possible change to satellite TV)
Standard VHS (480i)
Standard CD
MP3 player (not iPod, audio input works well)
Sony Playstation II


I like the onkyo 605 but I am worried about the video upscaling to 720p only.
The Denon 1708 looks good. For HD material what bandwidth is needed? I noticed one has 100Mhz while the other is only 50Mhz. Will both handle HD material?

If there is a beter match for my needs what is it? (please keep price in mind)

 

[Pipelayer]

I purchased the Onyko TX-SR605 and I love it, just got it so haven't done much with it, but the audio is immaculant! Several people here feel that the upscaling is one of the least important features. I did, however, email Onyko (whom promptly replied by the way) and asked them if they had any plans to upgrade their upscaling properties.

They informed me that presently, "at the moment there are no plans to release a firmware upgrade regarding this, but that is not to say that it won't ever be."

The very fact that this amp has upgradable firmware capabiltiy is a good step in the right direction, atleast the potential to improve and add new things exist.

 

[Seth=L]

A few notes:

1.) The Onkyo TX-SR605 has no scaler. It has a Faroudja DCDi Edge deinterlacer that will convert 480i material into 480p, that is the extent of the TX-SR605's video processing abilities. If the TX-SR605 receives a 1080i signal via component and is transcoded to HDMI (converted to HDMI, also known as upconversion) it scales the input down to 720p. So if you use the HDMI output only the max output that can be attained from any component input is 720p. Composite and S-video can be upconverted to HDMI and deinterlacing can be activated for those inputs for 480p output max.

2.) If you do plan on getting the Sony Pearl projector, you will not need scaling on a receiver period. All deinterlacing and upscaling should be handled by the Sony Pearl as it features an HQV upscaling chipset that will handily outperform most home theater receivers in respect to scaling ability.

3.) If you don't see yourself getting any additional amplification in the future the 12 volt trigger is not needed. The 12 volt trigger will turn an amplifier connected to it on and off as the receiver is turned on and off (similar effect as a switched outlet only power is never fully disconnected from the amplifier with a trigger in use. It is also not recommended to connect a power amplifier to a switched outlet on a receiver, as most switched outlets on receivers are rated for only 100 watts and amplifiers draw far more current than that and could damage the receiver).

4.) The TX-SR605 and Denon AVR-1708 do not have preouts for additional amplification, making a trigger a moot point hence neither of these receivers would have a 12 volt trigger.

5.) The Denon AVR-1708 does not support audio over HDMI.

6.) I recommend the Yamaha RX-V661 for all intents and purposes. It can pass 1080p via HDMI. It has no scaling or deinterlacing, but as mentioned before these features are not necessary for your intents. It has preouts for all channels and features a 12 volt trigger, so just in case you decide to get an amplifier you will be ready for it. It will process 5.1 LPCM via HDMI and most HD DVD players and Blu-ray player decode Dolby Digital TrueHD internally and a few also decode DTS-HD internally as well and send lossless 5.1 to the receiver via HDMI (essentially it does exactly the same thing as the Onkyo would do). The Yamaha is more flexible than the other receivers in most respects. It does have an auto calibration as well. I can't be certain about AV sync or multi-band EQs on these, but I am pretty sure that it has at least the multi-band EQ.

Edit: The Yamaha RX-V661 does have a multi-band EQ as well as an AV sync feature (an adjustable delay)

 

[mike c]

i didn't know the 1708 had no HDMI audio. what denon model does HDMI audio start?

 

[Seth=L]

i didn't know the 1708 had no HDMI audio. what denon model does HDMI audio start?

Denon AVR-1908 and Big Box store equivalent AVR-788. While the AVR-1708 supports HDMI 1.3 and deep color no audio processing features are present (not even Dolby Digital/DTS core or LPCM). It is comparative to the Onkyo TX-SR575 in respect to this limitation.

 

[Seth=L]

For HD material what bandwidth is needed? I noticed one has 100Mhz while the other is only 50Mhz. Will both handle HD material?

Yes, both would handle HD material fine. The Mhz rating only refers to the component video section. The maximum requirement for 1080i/720p via component is 37Mhz. Either receiver could more than handle any component video signal. I have yet to see any standardized devices that output 1080p over component, so I would not be concerned much about the bandwidth ratings for component video switching, 50 Mhz is more than enough.

 

[Pipelayer]

I remember checking out the Yamaha RX-V661 before making my choice to purchase the Onkyo, I got some, but no a lot, of recommendations from audio stores and all the reviews on them seem to be somewhat mediocre like this one by ZDNEet:

http://review.zdnet.com/av-receivers/yamaha-rx-v661/4505-6466_16-32378947.html

Other than that, you seem to have a vast knowledge of these units and their capabilities so I'm not disputing any of your suggestions, just offering my reason for not making the choice, which could have possibly been a mistake. If someone has a better suggestion than the one I made by purchasing the "Onkyo TX-SR605", my ears are all open, but act quickly I only have a few days left to check something else out and decide if I should make an exchange (a suggestion right now would be great).

THANKS!

 

[Motororo]

Thankyou for your inputs

Thanks to all who responded

Seth=L
Special thanks for your input
1)I assume the 605 has a HDMI passthru mode so that 1080i material can get to it ?.?

3) I have a electronic screen I was hoping to integrate with the reciver thru the trigger. I was hoping that it would be programable (on for 2,4,or 5.5 sec. to pull the screen down into full or wide screen mode) if it is only a swith then you are right I do not need it. I was wondering if a programable controll could do the timed swithing for me?

5) No HDMI audio supprot on the AVR-1708 I assume that the sound would still come out of the speakers in the reciever ?.?

 

[Seth=L]

1.) It will pass 1080i through HDMI if the input is HDMI, that is correct.

3.) You are right, the trigger will not be helpful for this application.

5.) The Denon can't pull the audio off HDMI sources, so no matter what HDMI sources are sent to the Denon it will not be able to pick the audio out from it. It will pass through and no audio will be present. Using a coaxial, optical, or analog output from a source with HDMI would be the only way to get audio. You can use HDMI and another output simultaneously. It is worth nothing that you can't get high resolution audio from SPDIF (optical or coaxial) and analog audio output from a Blu-ray or HD DVD player would be the only way to get the lossless sound with that receiver if input in the analog multichannel input.

Pipelayer, your decision is fine. The Onkyo TX-SR605 is an excellent receiver. I just believe the Yamaha RX-V661 is a more flexible receiver and meets the criteria of the OP a bit better for the price. HDMI 1.3 is not a necessity for HD audio like some may think, and it is a major selling point for the Onkyo TX-SR605. People have noted having small issues with the Onkyo such as popping (slight clicks when an input is changed or audio comes in), but rather petty annoyances.

 

[Seth=L]

I have made an error. The Yamaha RX-V661 does not transcode analog inputs, even component video to HDMI. The Yamaha may not work for you. The Onkyo should have a Multi EQ as well as AV sync. I have reverted my recommendation for the Yamaha in favor of the Onkyo TX-SR605.

 

[Motororo]

Thankyou Seth=L and Pipelayer
I am also leaning to the Onkyo 605. Looks like I can not afford video upscaling in the reciever and will have the projector do it.
Currently my X1 does very well with the VHS tapes 480i unfortunatly most HD projectors overlook this. I guess I will have to have my computer convert my VHS tapes (mostly kids cartoons and family memory's) to DVD. Probable should have done this sooner.