Help Deciding on the Pre-Amp

[PENG]

The way I understood is XLR is not needed if the distance between amp and preamp is short

@AcuDefTechGuy: the others 2 have audyssey pro, is that as good as the ARC from anthem?


thx

I fully agree if the distance is short, say 6 ft or less XLR is not needed and will not make any difference for you.

The Integra has Audyssey Multi EQ XT32, with very high resolution filters. The Pro is just a kit for professionaly calibration. I think you still have to buy the kit but if you do that Integra will allow you to perform the professional calibration. Most mid to high range Denon AVR has that feature too and they identify them as CI, e.g. AVR-4311CI.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

On the other hand their newly launched $2,000 AVR has received HTM top pick status last month and it has cross talks in the mid 70's dB.

I noticed that as well.

This means that @ 20kHz, the crosstalk is in 50s dB.

 

[GranteedEV]

I don't believe in Audyssey or ARC or any EQ period.

That's ridiculous. You think the crossovers in your speakers don't serve to "EQ"? Considering you just bought an Orion, which is essentially a ton of EQ on a circuit board... I find it tough to believe you don't believe in EQ. I'd love to see the response of the orion, "un-EQed".

Having good drivers, no stored energy, low distortion etc... putting them together well can get you MUCH of the way there.

But why you wouldn't want to get even flatter is beyond me. The resolution of these room correction softwares is through the roof. They're not perfect, but they could soon be. I'd argue that I'd rather own a DEQX or Audessey based speaker like a Phase Tech DARTS over anything else out there, even the most esoteric of speakers. Why? Because all speakers need EQ. I'd rather do it in the digital domain than to try and patch it up with analog crossover circuitry which has its own issues.

Now I'm not saying Audessey is perfect. Audessey Flat certainly isn't, as it raises high frequencies too much in the top octave.

But I believe in EQ. I don't believe room EQ software will really correct the issues of rooms, or that speakers should royally need it. But I believe that until you give me a phase-and-frequency perfect transducer, we can definitely benefit from the high resolution of these digital EQ softwares.

And I also feel that if I had $9000 to spend, no, I would definitely not buy any of these high end speakers that still use analog crossovers. I would buy an HDP-3, and then work my way out from there.

 

[mikeyhd]

I'm in the same boat. Let me know what you come up with.

Running a Parasound New Classic 5250V.2 with my yet to be determined preamp. I've been told by someone with pretty extensive preamp and receiver knowledge that the Anthem D2V has some great sound quality for music, but it's getting to be a rather dated unit for the price. Not sure what exactly dated is referring to: the lack of 3-d HDMI or its abilities to process the latest surround sound formats? I'll post later when I get some clarification on him for the D2V because I was looking at this unit as well.

I'm a novice myself with this stuff. Is XLR inputs/outputs the preferred way to hook up your seperates up to each other?

Finally I got myself a Integra DHC-80.2 as a temporary measure, then the Anthem D3v come out, which is end of 2012 according to my dealers, maybe I flip for that later on.

Overall, it's a good bang for the buck

 

[mikeyhd]

If I actually had this $900 right now in disposable income (I don't), I'd rather buy an outboard CMS with a colorimeter, for an undeniably better value in terms of video improvement. So in your case, I'd take a harder look at your speakers and room treatments, for instance.

I have another question:

After some reading, it seems where the anthern is up vs the integra is in the video processing, so if I would get a AV Processor like DVDO, then would it be at par with the anthem?

DVDO: http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/systems/

or is there others compagy that does the same things?

Thanks

 

[zumbo]

I have a really sick HT myself, excellent light control, double digit acoustic panels, multi row, and I use a $600 refurbed receiver as my pre/pro, and it uses MultEQ XT.

This is the statement that should have been noticed.

While I don't do the refurb part, an avr serves perfectly fine as a pre-pro for HT.

I use a Yamaha RX-Z7 in pre-amp mode, and seriously doubt any additional over-rated feature would be noticed/missed in the common HT environment.

Money saved on a pre can be(could have been) money invested in better speakers. This is not a knock on speakers chosen, this is just a general statement that speakers are going to have more of an effect on the experience than any room correction feature.

Most of the HD/blu-ray material, and monitiors, look so good, getting all wrapped-up in which pre-pro/avr is going to have better video processing is just silly.

 

[Warpdrv]

I have another question:

After some reading, it seems where the anthern is up vs the integra is in the video processing, so if I would get a AV Processor like DVDO, then would it be at par with the anthem?

DVDO: http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/systems/

or is there others compagy that does the same things?

Thanks

Personally, I think the concern about video processing is starting to become a moot point unless your doing alot of upscaling from dvd 720p or less to 1080p...

I am streaming all my bluray rips from my server through the D2v which are almost all 1080p, so the processing is a moot point.... there is some tweaks that can be applied but I am less concerned with video as much as audio at this juncture...

My screen is more the 10ft from the seating so even 720 would be acceptable at this point...

I bought my D2v a while back now so the price was far more agreeable back then, and there was nothing in its league in terms of performance or features for that matter, but now there are plenty of equal options avail and more to come.... The SQ with ARC is fantastic, but I'm not sure I would swing for a unit such as this at its price point with all the other options avail these days...

 

[jostenmeat]

I have another question:

After some reading, it seems where the anthern is up vs the integra is in the video processing, so if I would get a AV Processor like DVDO, then would it be at par with the anthem?

DVDO: http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/systems/

or is there others compagy that does the same things?

Thanks

They make a few different models, but the Duo or the VP50 will do way more than what the Anthem can do. Again, you have to know what features you need.

In fact, I'm sort of with Warp on this in that, as with the "expensive prepro", you may not get any perceivable benefits (outside of a need for CMS) depending on your display and viewing distance/angle. As with the speakers, you haven't offered what your display is, and so I'll ask: what model is it?

This thread reminds of a post I made a couple of months ago here, which I ended with the following:

With a lot of missing information, my instinct is to say: save your money towards new speakers or new display. Those are the two things that by far make the biggest difference, and that's probably because of the thing they share in common. They are both the final stop for an electrical signal, where it is then transformed into something that the human senses can detect, whether that is mechanical sound energy or visible light energy.

Again, I suspect a display upgrade might be in order before the VP. Some projectors already come with a CMS too. If your viewing angle is such that you cannot even discern 1080p, I wouldn't even consider spending substantial money on a different scaler, just me.

To answer your second question, yes there are other companies, well depending on if you need only a CMS, or more than that, but I think the Duo is the WTG for many projector owners. I still do not understand the nuances between this and the VideoEQ Pro for example, I mean outside of being a CMS, and perhaps having less color axes than certain CMS that are supplied with particular projectors, and particularly those of JVC. If I am not mistaken, it used to be we had to pay $4500 to get a CMS, where a Lumagen Radiance was our only choice. Since much more affordable competition has entered the market, I'm not sure how much pricing may have dropped.

 

[PENG]

Most of the HD/blu-ray material, and monitiors, look so good, getting all wrapped-up in which pre-pro/avr is going to have better video processing is just silly.

That's what I have been saying along but some people just have to find out the expensive way.

 

[PENG]

I noticed that as well.

This means that @ 20kHz, the crosstalk is in 50s dB.

That also means you can actually hear cross talks between all channels even at listening volume as low as -20. That will drive me and I am sure some other people crazy.

 

[mikeyhd]

As with the speakers, you haven't offered what your display is, and so I'll ask: what model is it?

I have a samsung UN55C7000 (it has CMS and pattern Calibration Integrated) which is at 8.7 feet from seating position the minimum required by THX.

 

[PENG]

I have a samsung UN55C7000 (it has CMS and pattern Calibration Integrated) which is at 8.7 feet from seating position the minimum required by THX.

I bet you that display upscale very well, setting the prepro to 'pass through' without using any external VP may yield as good or better result watching real world contents. I PM'ed you my own opinion formed after spending lots of time playing with different combinations.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But why you wouldn't want to get even flatter is beyond me.

I realize the Salon2 & KEF 207/2 also have the EQ setting for the trebles & bass in the back of the speakers, but I assume setting them to FLAT is the best.

My thinking is, most of these high-end speakers are made to sound great without additional EQ - in direct mode.

Audyssey Room EQ did not sound any better to me than non-EQ in the past.

I will try Audyssey EQ FLAT again with the Orion and see.

Bottom line is, if Audyssey Room EQ FLAT does not improve the sound quality of my speakers, then I will not use it.

If Audyssey FLAT improves the sound, then I will use it.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

Congrats on yout integra purchase. Let me know how you like it. Given the rave reviews the marantz 7005 has gotten along with its modest price tag, thats what ive finally decided on. What a relief. Just subs to get hammered out now. Im sure youll see a new thread there soon.lol

 

[jostenmeat]

I have a samsung UN55C7000 (it has CMS and pattern Calibration Integrated) which is at 8.7 feet from seating position the minimum required by THX.

Thanks. If it was me in your shoes, and I had money to burn on video, I believe I would either opt for a colorimeter to take advantage of the CMS, or hire a very well known calibrator to do it all for me. Either way, I would have the FI (frame interpolation) as defeated, and if not defeatable, at the bare minimum setting. If Samsung still uses DNIE or whatever, definitely defeat that too. I believe FI for Samsung is called AMP (auto motion plus) or something like that, or at least it used to be.

 

[GranteedEV]

I realize the Salon2 & KEF 207/2 also have the EQ setting for the trebles & bass in the back of the speakers, but I assume setting them to FLAT is the best.

The 'Bass setting' is a function of distance from wall.
The 'Treble' setting is a function of room reflectivity

My thinking is, most of these high-end speakers are made to sound great without additional EQ - in direct mode.

Yes. But where I disagree with you is the idea that great speakers sound the same in 'any room'. The room DOES affect what we hear, whether it is an orion or revel or a klipsch or rbh. The extent to which is different, but it's not like the best speakers just 100% take the room out of the equation.

If YOU have drywall ringing at 3khz for example, an auto eq might eq that down to give you a perception of flat.

Audyssey Room EQ did not sound any better to me than non-EQ in the past.

And that's fine, IYE. But that dorsn't mean the same speakers in another room, even great ones, will be totally unaffected by the room.

I will try Audyssey EQ FLAT again with the Orion and see.

The flat curve is wrong. it is for ultra absorsive rooms that have no natural reverberance. The regular audessey curve is the one to give a try. It is flat from 20hz-~13khz with a gradual sloping down of the FR above that.

Bottom line is, if Audyssey Room EQ FLAT does not improve the sound quality of my speakers, then I will not use it.

If Audyssey FLAT improves the sound, then I will use it.

I'm not saying it necessarily will, but who knows til you try? And Audessey certainly isn't the more recent Audessey XT32 pro or trinnov. You can't generalize that no eq sounds better than eq invariantly for great speakers. At worst, the eq really should do 'nothing'. and at best it can make integrating a full 5.1 etc more natural.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The flat curve is wrong. it is for ultra absorsive rooms that have no natural reverberance. The regular audessey curve is the one to give a try. It is flat from 20hz-~13khz with a gradual sloping down of the FR above that.

So the FLAT curve is wrong on Audyssey; is this the case with all these Room EQ including ARC, Trinnov, & the Harman Group Room EQ?

I will definitely try the regular Audyssey (instead of Audyssey Flat) on the Orion.

 

[PENG]

I realize the Salon2 & KEF 207/2 also have the EQ setting for the trebles & bass in the back of the speakers, but I assume setting them to FLAT is the best.

My thinking is, most of these high-end speakers are made to sound great without additional EQ - in direct mode.

Audyssey Room EQ did not sound any better to me than non-EQ in the past.

I will try Audyssey EQ FLAT again with the Orion and see.

Bottom line is, if Audyssey Room EQ FLAT does not improve the sound quality of my speakers, then I will not use it.

If Audyssey FLAT improves the sound, then I will use it.

I thought we talked about this before. It depends on the characteristics of your room. It is possible that Audyssey does not have to do much with your room so whether you use it or not may make little difference.

 

[jostenmeat]

So the FLAT curve is wrong on Audyssey; is this the case with all these Room EQ including ARC, Trinnov, & the Harman Group Room EQ?

I will definitely try the regular Audyssey (instead of Audyssey Flat) on the Orion.

I believe ARC may have some flexibility in choosing the HF cutoff of correction, but that many users left it up higher than they expected (because the results are improved for much of the range). I believe Trinnov has a cutoff selection at only 300hz as the guesstimate towards the Schroeder transition frequency of any given room. I do not know anything about the Harman EQ, except that if I owned 4 subwoofers I would want the JBL BassQ.

edit: btw, there aren't just only Flat and Audyssey curves, but a PSB/NAD curve, a Fronts curve (where mains are untouched I think), maybe something else; it depends on the brand/model of receiver you buy too.

I thought we talked about this before. It depends on the characteristics of your room. It is possible that Audyssey does not have to do much with your room so whether you use it or not may make little difference.

I don't think he discerned any improvement with room treatments either, so he must have the perfect room and perfect speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I thought we talked about this before. It depends on the characteristics of your room. It is possible that Audyssey does not have to do much with your room so whether you use it or not may make little difference.

Yes, we talked about this before.

I recall trying Audyssey out numerous times and toggling between the Audyssey settings (Audyssey, Flat) but I didn't hear any difference good or bad.

So we decided that my room must not have made a difference, but it doesn't mean everyone's room is the same.

However, I will try Audyssey yet again with the Orions and see if I can tell the difference this time with the Orions, instead of the BP7000.