Help: Bridging the gap btw Sub Model/Cabinet Design and final performance with DSP

[ryanosaur]

I'm finally having some success with new modeling software (trying out BassBox 6 Pro after struggling with SoundEasy).
Still a ways from building my first Sub, but am seeing some realistic modeling that makes sense with BB. SE was just giving me all kinds of weirdness. (I'm not going to give up on it completely: my last push with it showed that it clearly has potential regardless of its quirks.)
Nonetheless, what I found in my early modeling attempts were falling short of what I desire in something I would build as a possible replacement to Subs in my system (Outlaw X-13s) or other OEM product I could buy (Monolith 15" for example).
Of course, my main interest will still lie in building a TQWT Subwoofer, hopefully with guidance from @TLS Guy , but getting to that point still requires me learning a little [read: a lot] more...
...starting with this:

If a Model shows the Sub limited in extension and the optimum design seems to indicate an F3 at 19-21Hz, how do I get it lower? One of my requirements has been good reproduction capability at 16Hz, strong. Now I know enough about DSP to recognize it plays a roll in the deeper extension being milked from OEM products, as well as stabilizing the overall performance.

Do you design the Cabinet for the raw performance, or do you design the cabinet for the DSP Tuned Performance?

Is there a reasonable way to better predict how a Driver will behave with the DSP Tuning in the Cabinet? Ports?

Of course, I recognize that there is a possible problem, still:

Am I completely missing the mark?
And if so, where is my understanding holding me back?

As always, thank you in advance for any input and assistance in my quest!

Cheers!

 

[Verdinut]

I'm finally having some success with new modeling software (trying out BassBox 6 Pro after struggling with SoundEasy).
Still a ways from building my first Sub, but am seeing some realistic modeling that makes sense with BB. SE was just giving me all kinds of weirdness. (I'm not going to give up on it completely: my last push with it showed that it clearly has potential regardless of its quirks.)
Nonetheless, what I found in my early modeling attempts were falling short of what I desire in something I would build as a possible replacement to Subs in my system (Outlaw X-13s) or other OEM product I could buy (Monolith 15" for example).
Of course, my main interest will still lie in building a TQWT Subwoofer, hopefully with guidance from @TLS Guy , but getting to that point still requires me learning a little [read: a lot] more...
...starting with this:

If a Model shows the Sub limited in extension and the optimum design seems to indicate an F3 at 19-21Hz, how do I get it lower? One of my requirements has been good reproduction capability at 16Hz, strong. Now I know enough about DSP to recognize it plays a roll in the deeper extension being milked from OEM products, as well as stabilizing the overall performance.

Do you design the Cabinet for the raw performance, or do you design the cabinet for the DSP Tuned Performance?

Is there a reasonable way to better predict how a Driver will behave with the DSP Tuning in the Cabinet? Ports?

Of course, I recognize that there is a possible problem, still:

Am I completely missing the mark?
And if so, where is my understanding holding me back?

As always, thank you in advance for any input and assistance in my quest!

Cheers!

Yep, you're missing the Mark? lol

In the meantime, the cabinet should be tuned for the best performance as suggested by BassBox 6 Pro. Then, you use DSP to adjust the response to obtain a better LF performance in your room.
By the way, I have been using BassBox 6 Pro for many years and it's a very reliable software. I think TLSG has also been using it for some of his designs.

Cheers!

 

[ryanosaur]

Yep, you're missing the Mark? lol

In the meantime, the cabinet should be tuned for the best performance as suggested by BassBox 6 Pro. Then, you use DSP to adjust the response to obtain a better LF performance in your room.
By the way, I have been using BassBox 6 Pro for many years and it's a very reliable software. I think TLSG has also been using it for some of his designs.

Cheers!

Ha!

OK, thank you. Looking at how to get fully through the process without building a future playhouse for the Cats and ending up collecting Drivers that don't close the deal.

I know Mark used the Dayton 12" HF Driver in his Living Room TQWT Sub, and you (and many others) have all recommended the 15" HF from them. I do like that 15" driver and that is what I am using in my experimental models. (Also because it's Dayton, presumably, the Driver Database has correct information for it! I also tried playing around with the Peerless 15" STW350F, but the numbers in the Database were way off from those posted by Peerless and on the PE Website.)

Anyway, I am looking at a single driver, vented build, first. Though, to be fair, it is more likely I should build a small sub or two for the bedroom now that I am almost done with my AA+ Upgrade from that other thread. (Parts arrived! Yay!!!) That would be a decent place to stash 2 sealed builds and get some easier build experience in.

Thanks, Verdi!

 

[Verdinut]

Ha!

OK, thank you. Looking at how to get fully through the process without building a future playhouse for the Cats and ending up collecting Drivers that don't close the deal.

I know Mark used the Dayton 12" HF Driver in his Living Room TQWT Sub, and you (and many others) have all recommended the 15" HF from them. I do like that 15" driver and that is what I am using in my experimental models. (Also because it's Dayton, presumably, the Driver Database has correct information for it! I also tried playing around with the Peerless 15" STW350F, but the numbers in the Database were way off from those posted by Peerless and on the PE Website.)

Anyway, I am looking at a single driver, vented build, first. Though, to be fair, it is more likely I should build a small sub or two for the bedroom now that I am almost done with my AA+ Upgrade from that other thread. (Parts arrived! Yay!!!) That would be a decent place to stash 2 sealed builds and get some easier build experience in.

Thanks, Verdi!

You are welcome.

What size of ported enclosure are you using for the RSS390HF sub? Mines have a net enclosed volume of about 7.8 cf and are tuned at 16 Hz, for a F3 at 21 Hz. For the vents, I use two 4" ABS pipes with an elbow for each one in the cabinet and another one near the rear vent openings.

 

[ryanosaur]

You are welcome.

What size of ported enclosure are you using for the RSS390HF sub? Mines have a net enclosed volume of about 7.8 cf and are tuned at 16 Hz, for a F3 at 21 Hz. For the vents, I use two 4" ABS pipes with an elbow at each end and rear venting.

Those number look really close to what I recall from my very green attempts at using the program the first time I opened it. A Hz here,a franction of a Hz there.... I did not save anything as I was really just playing around with different things to see how different values changed others and how the program reacted.
I'm gonna get back to it in a day or two: need to finish the topic of my other DIY thread. Now that I have all my components refreshed, I need to rewire the broken resistor, add the Molex connections and get my XO boards installed in the cabinets for those AA+s.



At least I can say for certain that this year will be Subwoofer Summer!... Fo'Sure!

 

[Verdinut]

Those number look really close to what I recall from my very green attempts at using the program the first time I opened it. A Hz here,a franction of a Hz there.... I did not save anything as I was really just playing around with different things to see how different values changed others and how the program reacted.
I'm gonna get back to it in a day or two: need to finish the topic of my other DIY thread. Now that I have all my components refreshed, I need to rewire the broken resistor, add the Molex connections and get my XO boards installed in the cabinets for those AA+s.



At least I can say for certain that this year will be Subwoofer Summer!... Fo'Sure!

I've noticed that the BB6 calculations for vent pipe length were not precise. It's very handy to have a tool such as the Dayton DATS speaker testing kit to measure the sub impedance curve. The box Fb is located where the curve is at its lowest point.