Help A Newb Finish His Setup

[AbbyDaddy]

Hello! My name is Aaron, and I am a newb that needs help. Now that I have my AA type intro done, I am in a fix. I have not been able to make a final decision on a receiver for my home theater setup for over 3 months. I am coming from using a Samsung HTIB for the last 10 years. I know roughly what I want, and what I don't need, but it's very hard, as electronics are ever changing. I want something that will work with 4K, even though I don't have a 4K TV at this time (just thinking future). I've already probably more than tripled what I originally planned on spending, so why stop now? I, for all intents and purposes want to be around $2,000.00 max, or I will need a good divorce attorney. What I currently have for my setup are the following:

• Samsung UN55F8000 TV
• Four BIC Acoustech PL-89II towers
• One BIC Acoustech PL-28II center
• Four BIC Acoustech HT-8C ceiling speakers for Atmos
• Two BIC Acoustech PL-200 subwoofers
• Everything ran in CL-3 rated in-wall 14/2 speaker wire with banana plug terminations
• Banana Plug Plate Connectors for 2 rears and center channel

The only things that I plan to connect are my DirecTV box, my PS4, and my Android 5.1 Kodi Media Player. Obviously, I need a minimum of a 9-channel receiver. If I choose to do 2 rear wall speakers at a later time (not a given, but a possibility), I could use an 11-channel or use the 12V trigger out to add on a 2-channel amp. I have spent countless hours looking at Onkyo TX-NR1030, Denon AVR-X6200W, and Marantz SR7010. I do not like Sony or Pioneer, despite other's opinions, and I know nothing of Integra. My living room is where everything will be connected until we get a new/larger home. The room measures 15'L X 13-1/2'W X 8'H or 1,620 cubic feet.

Can someone offer an opinion, so I can actually get to listen to my system?

 

[Swerd]

Aaron

Welcome to AH . You've got a small case of analysis paralysis, but don't worry . Considering the bewildering nature of the AVR makers' web pages, it isn't surprising. I'm bewildered by them too. Remember that they all compete intensely with each other, and their products and features tend to be rather similar. Despite that, their web sites deliberately try to make you think they are vastly different.

Remember all those AVR features are subject to the 80/20 rule. 80% of people use 20% of those features and ignore the rest. You should too .

You seem to have worked out what you need in an AVR.

• 9 channels
• Enough inputs for your TV, DirectTV box, PS4, and media player, plus a few more for future expansion
• Enough power to drive your speakers

I would add that any AVR you buy also have pre-amp out put jacks for future addition of an external amplifier. I think the ones you mentioned all have that.

And you seem to understand what brands have good reputations. Denon and Marantz are owned by the same company and may actually share critical parts. They are both good. Onkyo is generally also good but has a reputation (amplified by internet forum chatter?) for overheating and subsequent failure. Considering the good choices of other brands, it's easy to forget them. Integra is a name owned by Onkyo that aimed at a higher price market. I'm less familiar with Pioneer, but they also seem to be good. You left out Yamaha. I think they should be considered with Denon and Marantz. Forget Sony.

The short answer to your question is to order a Denon AVR-X6200W or -X5200W (a bit less money for essentially the same features) at the best possible price and get busy setting it up and learning how best to use it.

 

[AbbyDaddy]

I have another dumb question. Since the AVR-X5200 offers no DTS:X option, that would essentially rule that one out, no? The only reason that I ask is, because I am nuts for lack of a better term, is that I was wondering if it were possible to utilize both Atmos and DTS:X, understandably not together of course. My thought here was that I can use Atmos with my 4 ceiling speakers, and possibly when we get a larger home, use four or the PL-66 BIC speakers for DTS:X. I don't see/claim to know the better of the two, as both are relative and offer different mixes. Do any of the AVR's use any kind of upmix so that the height speakers are not negated in any way?

 

[Swerd]

I have another dumb question. Since the AVR-X5200 offers no DTS:X option, that would essentially rule that one out, no? The only reason that I ask is, because I am nuts for lack of a better term, is that I was wondering if it were possible to utilize both Atmos and DTS:X, understandably not together of course. My thought here was that I can use Atmos with my 4 ceiling speakers, and possibly when we get a larger home, use four or the PL-66 BIC speakers for DTS:X. I don't see/claim to know the better of the two, as both are relative and offer different mixes. Do any of the AVR's use any kind of upmix so that the height speakers are not negated in any way?

I'd like to provide a simple answer to your question…

I have a 5 channel system, as do many, if not most, people here. Few, if any, have an Atmos system. It has been my experience that the original introduction (about 15-20 years ago) of Dolby Digital or DTS coded digital sound was a significant improvement over the previous analog Dolby Pro-logic systems. The frequent and incremental changes in multi-channel decoding systems that have come since then have technically been improvements, but they have made small audible differences in overall sound quality. To tell the truth, I don't really know what DTS:X claims to do.

Remember that the real key to sound quality is the nature and quality of your speakers, not how many channels are in your AVR, nor what decoding software it uses.

 

[Swerd]

I really don't mean to disparage your question. It may or may not be possible to do what you've asked. I certainly don't know.

You've probably already read the owner's manuals. They are bare minimum documents at best. Similar to most computer software and smart phones, you will teach yourself more once you start using the product.

I believe that most of the AVR products sold function more similar than not because of the constraints built-in by the various Dolby and DTS decoding systems, and the limitations imposed by the various commercially available IC chips.

So if your hesitation comes from the fear that one AVR model will do what you want, but that others won't. I'd put that fear to rest. Either they all will (in one price class) or none will.

 

[AbbyDaddy]

Since I am far from being a millionaire, I went with speakers that I could get all at once, without having to wait a year to compile (yes I know it's been months and still not hooked up to an AVR). I don't claim to know what is or isn't the best of the best. I do know that on price point, and many online reviews that the BIC speakers have been "said" to have sound comparable to Klipsch. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. I understand that the speakers I purchased are mid-grade at best, and that some may turn their noses up to them. If I had a larger home, and a dedicated theater room, my choices and options may increase. I don't know how to take the "quality" comment, as it is obviously hard to determine the tone of conversation viewed in text, so I imagine just a point that you were making.

On a side note, was the RX-A3050 the Yamaha receiver that you think should be included in the mix?

 

[Swerd]

Since I am far from being a millionaire, I went with speakers that I could get all at once, without having to wait a year to compile (yes I know it's been months and still not hooked up to an AVR).

I do understand that. I avoided commenting about your choice in speakers only because I haven't heard them. And because you already have purchased them. I think it's safe to assume they will sound much better than what you previously had.

On a side note, was the RX-A3050 the Yamaha receiver that you think should be included in the mix?

I had to go look that up too. On paper, it seems similar to the Denon X6200W of the same price. One possible exception is the power rating of 165 watts/channel vs. 140 for the Denon. I don't think a difference of 25 watts matters at all.

Another possible difference is the acoustic equalization software. Yamaha uses it's own version called YPAO, and Denon uses a version called Audyssey. They both can get the job done, but I doubt if they are identical. I've heard more people sing the praises of Audyssey, but I'm agnostic on that subject.

Seriously, get whatever model Denon, Marantz, or Yamaha fits your needs. None of those are bad AVRs. It probably will come down to whats the best price you can get.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Dear OP: you have small room and very easy to power speaker: Result is you go deaf even from amp size of matchbox
My recommendation if do follow the idea Swerd said - pre-amps are one feature you really should have for future upgrades
My vote is you need to balance your audio budget and vast majority should go into speakers.
btw: More mediocre speakers is not as good as less, but higher quality speakers especially in such small space.
I think you should consider getting rid of pair of towers and stick with 7 speakers setup. It would be more than plenty.

In that case Denon X4100W should do everything you could possibly ever want

 

[Jay aLBERS]

Some basic advise, and a recommendation. I have owned most of the mainstream brands over the years. I presently have a 2 of Sony receivers, the second one purchased because the display went blank on the first one, that now lives in my garage system. I have an Onkyo that puked just after it went out of warranty. They fixed it at no charge anyway, as it was a known issue. Thought that was great customer service. I also own 2 Pioneer receivers the first purchased a part of a package that I couldn't walk away from, the second because I really liked the first one. I replaced an NAD T163 with the second one and it's a night and day difference.
The Sony stuff is totally entry level but my wife knows how it works so I replace the first one with an other. The Onkyo sounds great and the customer service is high. The Pioneer Elite stuff has been a pleasant surprise. I just purchased an SC85 that is freshly discontinued. Lots of connectivity, 4K, atmos, and 11 pre amp outs. It listed at $1600 when new and I paid $780. from Nebraska Furniture Mart. I know that you said you didn't like the Pioneer stuff, but at that price point it might be worth a look. Good luck!

 

[fmw]

I like the responses Swerd gave you. It is obvious you are afraid of making a mistake but it is harder to make a mistake than you think. A good sounding speaker system will outperform the HT-in-a-box products with which you are familiar. The speakers, along with room acoustics represent somewhere between most and all of the sound quality of the system That is where you should spend the money. The other stuff is reasonably trivial in comparison.

So to add to Swerd's advice, go do some listening to determine what sounds pleasing to you in speakers. Then buy the best you can afford, even if it means only buying part of a system. Personally, I put the various speakers in a home theater in the following order of importance.

1. Main speaker pair
2. Subwoofer
3. Center channel
4. Surrounds

Personally I would prefer a system consisting of only 1 and 2 above to a 5 or 7 or more speaker setup if it allowed me to have better sound within my budget. In other words it makes sense to choose quality over quantity when it comes to speakers.

 

[herbu]

I'm with BSA and Swerd. Denon, Marantz or Yamaha. I tend to favor Denon because that's what I have now and am more than happy. I have the (old) X4000. One of them is real cheap now at Accessories4Less. (It has 4k, but like me, you may discover it's useless.) The newer X4100 or 6200 or 7010 will likely do way more than you want, (or need).

I can pretty much guarantee you that any of them with the right speakers and subs will blow away anything you or your friends have likely heard. Get any of those AVRs and start saving for speaker upgrades. That will make the most difference in the "future", not new flavor-of-the-day AVR features.

 

[Swerd]

I like the responses Swerd gave you. It is obvious you are afraid of making a mistake but it is harder to make a mistake than you think. A good sounding speaker system will outperform the HT-in-a-box products with which you are familiar.

Thanks. I like the way you said it. I think the OP has gotten overwhelmed by the manufacturers' bewildering descriptions of all the features of their AVR models, and he feared making a mistake. Spending roughly $2,000 on an AVR when you don't really have a feel for what they can do is difficult. I tried to covey the idea that the differences among AVRs isn't as critical as he thinks.

I also avoided saying anything about his speakers. First, he asked only about AVRs. Second, he already bought those speakers. And finally, I haven't heard them so I can't comment on their sound. But I do believe his system, once he gets an AVR, will easily sound much better than what he had before.

I don't want to contribute more to a noob's Audio Nirvana Nervosa, I want to help him cure it . I hope he got the message.

 

[herbu]

I don't get why some people are so condescending and snobby on these forums... I really don't like being made to feel like a cheap @$$h0le.

Aaron, I suppose you're talking about some other forum. EVERY response to you here has been friendly, civil and constructive. You received several good recommendations for receivers. In addition, we informed/reminded you the golden rule of audio systems: Speakers, Speakers, Speakers. (It is just like Location, Location, Location in real estate.)

I could find no condescension, sarcasm, sniping or anything intended to make a reasonable person feel like a "cheap @$$h0le". If indeed that is your reaction to our responses, well... good luck eliciting additional time/help.

 

[AbbyDaddy]

"mediocre" speakers for one....

 

[lsiberian]

"mediocre" speakers for one....

Honestly your best bet with that setup is to buy a midrange receiver with the features you need and get a really nice subwoofer from HSU or SVS. But I don't get how you are offended by this. If you had a Camaro and people suggest getting a Corvette as an upgrade would you seriously think that was insulting the Camaro?

 

[AbbyDaddy]

Sorry for being so easily offended and whining like a little girl who didn't get the lollipop she asked her mom for.

Has anyone had any experience purchasing from FiveStarBuy or BestBuy PCS? They seem to have the lowest prices on the RX-A3050, which I am leaning more towards with price being a factor and very comparative specs to the Denons.

 

[AbbyDaddy]

Although, I just got a quote back on the AVR-X6200W at $1,539, which is like $150 less than I can get the Yamaha for anywhere...and I can have it in 2 days as opposed to 3-5 days.

 

[Swerd]

Although, I just got a quote back on the AVR-X6200W at $1,539, which is like $150 less than I can get the Yamaha for anywhere...and I can have it in 2 days as opposed to 3-5 days.

Which dealer is that from? It's a good price. Is that for a new AVR, or an open box (previously returned) or refurbished AVR? They can still be a good buy.

I haven't bought from either of the vendors you named, but I have bought from a number of different on-line vendors, and haven't had trouble with them. Make sure of a couple of things:

1. Use a credit card that you know has some buyer protection features, such as money back.
2. What's the shipping cost? If you have to return it, who pays shipping?
   
3. Check the vendor's return policy. What's the time frame for you to return the AVR with the full purchase price refunded? 30 days is usual. Is there a "restock" fee, and how much is it?
4. Does the vendor have a phone number and a real mailing address? It is more likely that a vendor with a real location will offer real customer service. Maybe a virtual vendor will do the same, but it's easier for a vendor without a real location to vanish.
5. Do a quick google search on the vendor's name. Is there any mention of customer complaints to the Better Business Bureau?

 

[AbbyDaddy]

1. Use a credit card that you know has some buyer protection features, such as money back. I do.
2. What's the shipping cost? If you have to return it, who pays shipping? Free shipping with return label prepaid if needed.
   
3. Check the vendor's return policy. What's the time frame for you to return the AVR with the full purchase price refunded? 30 days is usual. Is there a "restock" fee, and how much is it? Up to 30 days after purchase for any reason, no restock fee as long as in original packaging and nothing missing.
4. Does the vendor have a phone number and a real mailing address? It is more likely that a vendor with a real location will offer real customer service. Maybe a virtual vendor will do the same, but it's easier for a vendor without a real location to vanish. He has a real email address and phone number as well as chat. I have spoken to him on the phone at length a few times, and is always helpful.
5. Do a quick google search on the vendor's name. Is there any mention of customer complaints to the Better Business Bureau? An accredited BBB business with an A+ rating since 2000, and an 8.77 out of 10 on Reseller Ratings, with only 3 non 5-star ratings (2 whiners, and 1 I suspect was a competitor)

The dealer is Acoustic Sound Design. The AVR is brand new. On the site it is listed at $2,199, but when you buy a speaker system from them, you get a 30% discount on any AVR that you wish.

 

[Swerd]

1. Use a credit card that you know has some buyer protection features, such as money back. I do.
2. What's the shipping cost? If you have to return it, who pays shipping? Free shipping with return label prepaid if needed.
   
3. Check the vendor's return policy. What's the time frame for you to return the AVR with the full purchase price refunded? 30 days is usual. Is there a "restock" fee, and how much is it? Up to 30 days after purchase for any reason, no restock fee as long as in original packaging and nothing missing.
4. Does the vendor have a phone number and a real mailing address? It is more likely that a vendor with a real location will offer real customer service. Maybe a virtual vendor will do the same, but it's easier for a vendor without a real location to vanish. He has a real email address and phone number as well as chat. I have spoken to him on the phone at length a few times, and is always helpful.
5. Do a quick google search on the vendor's name. Is there any mention of customer complaints to the Better Business Bureau? An accredited BBB business with an A+ rating since 2000, and an 8.77 out of 10 on Reseller Ratings, with only 3 non 5-star ratings (2 whiners, and 1 I suspect was a competitor)

The dealer is Acoustic Sound Design. The AVR is brand new. On the site it is listed at $2,199, but when you buy a speaker system from them, you get a 30% discount on any AVR that you wish.

You've done all your homework. It seems good to go…

What do you have to spend on a speaker system to get that 30% discount, especially when you already have those BICs? You had said you bought them because you heard them in a friend's house and liked what you heard. That's as good a reason as any to keep them.