Hello! My wife likes Sony receivers but I'm trying to talk her out of it...

[aussiebrydon]

My existing A/V Setup:

(HD) Sony XBR4 46" LCD
(HD) Sony STR-K850P Receiver with bundled 5.1 cheapie speakers
(SD) 5-disk DVD Changer with bundle above
(SD) 80hr Tivo
(HD) Comcast Cable 1080i DVR
(HD) Xbox 360 - component cable only

Living Room: 13x23', with a 10x7' open entryway at the front left corner, then a big window-type opening + a door on the right hand side of the room to the kitchen/dining room which is 23x14'. So accoustically speaking the room is a disaster with open areas all over the place. The TV is about 10' away from the viewers on a a little TV cabinet across the 13' side of the living room from the couch.

I was using cheap fiber-optic cables at my last house that jammed in the optical-in ports so I've busted optical in's on video 2 and video 3 :-( so now when I watch HD Cable I'm on "MD/Tape" and when playing X-Box it's on "CD/SACD" for audio, then I have to manually switch my TV to the right input - can you say ghetto?

We live in a much larger place now than we used to and I haven't hooked up my rears so I'm only running 3.1 sound right now, which sounds kinda weird in Halo 3 hah.

I figure, we have a sweet TV now, why not get good sound to go with it? Oh yeah and I get to have working optical inputs!

I want to get:

A. A receiver that will work well with whoever wins the HD/BlueRay DVD format war, or a combination player.

B. Speakers that will sound good in our largish living room, and this is a tough one. It needs to sound good because my wife was a music major and she's a music snob, but I want Transformers in HD and Halo 3 on my Xbox to sound baddass. The speakers need to sound excellent at low and high volumes because sometimes I get to turn them up but mostly it's at lower volumes due to our *****y neighbor who shares a wall with our townhouse

I figure when I have saved all my pennies in 2-3 months I will have about $1,300 to spend on a receiver and about $1,700 to spend on speakers.

Given that huge NEWB writeup, I have some questions for you gents (and ladies).

1. Is there any way I'm going to be able to fill my 13x'23' living room with decent sounding in-wall speakers to satisfy my Sony loving, inobtrusive installation hoping wife, or can I tell her book-shelf speakers are the only way to go for our $1,700 budget?

2. What brands/models should we be looking at for receivers/speakers given our $1,300 budget and diverse HD DVD+Xbox+Music listening/viewing habits?

3. Sony's Sony STR-DA4300ES amp has Dolby Digital +, Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD. Given that I want to have an HD/BlueRay DVD player in the future, are these important things to look for when considering a receiver or given my wife's audio snobbery should I just get the best 5.1/7.1 receiver I can find and forget about fancy acronyms?


Thank you very much in advance! I'm trying really hard not to be a McDonalds vs. Burger King vs. In-n-out poster

 

[majorloser]

WOW

Yes, you can do in-wall speakers and have it fill the room with sound. The only problems is they ain't cheap. Two brands I'd suggest are Speakercraft and Triad.
http://www.speakercraft.com/
http://www.triadspeakers.com/

You could also do a complete set of Canton or Mordaunt Short in-walls:
http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/category/SpkInWall
One of the largest expenses with in-walls is the custom installation part or retrofitting an existing room with wiring inside the walls. They also have a tendency to put just as much sound on the other side of the wall as the side they're facing. The only way around this is with in-wall cabinets (more money and labor).

If your looking at some bookshelf speakers, check out AV123. They have quite a few that have beautiful wood finishes that will even pass the WAF:
http://www.av123.com/index.php

Otherwise, I really love the sound from the Usher S-520's in piano black. They run about $400 per pair:
http://www.usheraudiousa.com/products/loudspeakers/usher-series/s-520-shielded

As far as the receiver, as long as you have something that switches HDMI 1.3a (it seems to change every month) and can decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD you should be MORE than set for the the future (as it is today ).

Just as a side note, you'll still need a powered subwoofer with in-wall and bookshelf speakers. There's many quality brands out there now and lots to choose from. It's not a priority to start with, but definitely a "must have" item.

 

[highfihoney]

I have 3 questions for you.

1 What's up with Sony,is it a name brand recognisition thing with her or does she have a real reason to buy Sony over another product.

2 Are you oposed to buying used,if used is an option have you looked on THIS SITE http://www.audiogon.com/ your HT budget can be stretched ten fold from buying used instead of paying dealer/big box store mark up,plus you will end up with a system that crushes anything you would walk out of the store with for the same dollars spent.

3 You mentioned features of a receiver more than its performance being a deciding factor,Are you aware that chasing the latest features is a loosing battle & that this years latest & greatest features will be replaced within 2 years.

This receiver is typical of the massive deals that can be had from buying used off Audiogon.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1199491433

 

[Seth=L]

I would delegate at least 2/3 of the total budget toward the Speakers alone. The remainder can be for the receiver and cabling. Monoprice is a good place to get cables for cheap, Bluejeans.com if you want a little better build and appearance.

I say get an Onkyo TX-SR705 or TX-SR805 and spend as much as you can on the speakers. Depending on the impedance of the speakers you may not need the extra power and low drive capability the TX-SR805 offers, then again you might. If the speakers you select are 4 ohm nominal you should probably get the TX-SR805, if they are 6-8 ohm the TX-SR705 might be enough to suit you.

One thing can be for certain, whatever you and your wife choose, it is going to sound many times better than what you have right now.

If you must get a Sony, I would get the STR-DG1000. All the other receivers weigh exactly the same up from that model, so you are probably getting the same power. The upper models have a few more features, and sometimes less connectivity for some reason in their most recent line.

 

[majorloser]

Seth: You forgot to post the link to the review

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/onkyo-tx-sr805

 

[Seth=L]

Good thinking.

(I never think, so thanks for doing it for me.)

 

[aussiebrydon]

Awesome write-up guys thanks

HiFiHoney:
1. She just likes the brand name
2. She hates buying used, so that's probably not going to happen
3. Thanks for the tip about the latest features etc, that makes sense

Seth - I thought Denon over Onkyo 'cause my father-in-law has the 3806 or 3606 or something but I'm fine living without upconverting on the Onkyo if it's that cool for the price

MajorLooser, forgive the newb question but the Usher SW103 IS powered right?

What do you guys think about this setup?

Vendor Brand Model Location Units Price
Usher Usher S-520 Front L/R 1 $400.00
Usher Usher S-525 Center 1 $380.00
Usher Usher S-520 Rear L/R 1 $400.00
Usher Usher SW-103 sub 1 $1,000
Abt Onkyo TX-SR805 Receiver 1 not$1,099 $888

not $3,279 $3,068.00


Is there anywhere you can get Usher speakers for less than MSRP that's not the proverbial white van?

S-520's is probably over-kill for the rear two speakers don't you reckon? What do you guys think would match this setup?

Edit: Woohoo! I just found the Onkyo at ABT for $888, so my budget is now closer to actually being met.

 

[majorloser]

I personally would skip the Usher sub and look at a SVS sub. The Usher is only a 10" driver. You can get a LOT more bang for your buck with SVS and they offer some beautiful finishes that will match the Ushers.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm
(would save you some money over the Usher sub)

or

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-plus2.cfm
(discounted $400 now as overstock)

You can also look at the new Emotiva line of speakers and subs. They are new and not sure what the release date is. We had a good chance to play with them at the "Audioholics CE State of the Union Show" last month. You get a heck of a lot for your money with them. Solid CNC cabinets and front baffles .

http://www.emotiva.com/
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/emotiva-erm-1-erd-1-speakers-and-drs-1-subwoofer-system-first-look
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/emotiva-drs-1
http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/videos/2007-ce-union-emotiva-interview

(Granted, they're not piano black like the Ushers)

EDIT: BTW- the premium finishes on the SVS and the Usher speakers are major WAF winners.

 

[Davemcc]

I understand your wife's requirements and I'd like to offer these suggestions. The Onkyo 805 is an nice choice and the recent Audioholic's review confirms that it is a solid performance and value performer.

To meet your wife's musical and aesthetic requirements, I humbly suggest that you try to audition the Era Design 5. Musically they are simply an outstanding speaker. I've moved from about 10/90 music/movies to 80/20 music movies since I got my Eras. They sound so good that once I put some music on, I can't seem to turn it off to watch TV or movie. Visually, they have beautiful furniture grade finishes that are sure to please a demanding eye as well. For your room and budget, I suggest a pair of D5 satellites as mains, a D4 center and a pair of D4 as surrounds.

If the visual aspect is really important, you could get the matching Era subwoofer, but for performance for both music and movies, I think the Hsu VTF-3 MK3 would be ideal choice for your size room and budget.

The combination of the Onkyo 805, the Era 5 channel speakers and Hsu sub should hit your budget right on and fulfill all your requirements. With the matching Era sub maybe a little more, but then the sub would also have a beautiful matching finish instead of being just a black box.

Links:
http://www.signalpathint.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=54
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3.html

 

[highfihoney]

HiFiHoney:

2. She hates buying used, so that's probably not going to happen


Is there anywhere you can get Usher speakers for less than MSRP that's not the proverbial white van?

I read where you said she hates buying used but................this link answers the question you asked & their not white van.http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1200079657

 

[rnatalli]

Some Sony receivers run so hot that I've burnt myself on them in the past. If there's still some doubt, you may want to mention that to your wife especially if there are kids running around.

 

[aussiebrydon]

you guys are awesome!

Thank you so much for all your input guys, I really appreciate it.

Dave: do you miss out on any sound going from the Usher's to the Era's you think? To a musicians ear (my wife's) is there going to be any difference for music, movies or games? In general if you would guess, would you say the Usher's would give a "fuller" sound because they have a larger box? Anything Like that?

Highfihoney: Those Usher's have expired on audiogon.com now but I did get to see the price, you're right, they're awesome! Do you guys know if the manufacturers warranty is transferable in general for speaker systems costing around $2,000? Would I have any recourse of one of the speakers went out 30 days after I bought it?

Majorloser: the SVS sub's look uber cool. Given that my *****y neighbor complains about base, most of the time I'd be listening to my movies and playing games at in the "4-6" range. Loud, but not enough to really piss off the guy we share a wall with. Is the SVS sub overkill on a 13x23 room where I'm not going to play it loud very much? Is the 12" going to linger too much when my wife plays her fancy music? Would a 10" give tighter, more controlled base at these lower playing levels do you reckon?

You have all been very helpful, my thanks again

EDIT: Oh and rnatalli - thanks for the hint about the Sony dude. This receiver is going to need to last 5-6 years so there's a good chance there'll be kids around to touch it

 

[highfihoney]

Highfihoney: Those Usher's have expired on audiogon.com now but I did get to see the price, you're right, they're awesome! Do you guys know if the manufacturers warranty is transferable in general for speaker systems costing around $2,000? Would I have any recourse of one of the speakers went out 30 days after I bought it?

I'll not try & push buying used on you,your preferences for new are your preferences,just understand a few things about expensive audio gear before letting something as unimportant & expensive as a manufacturer warrenty be the deciding factor in your purchase.

Most if not all audio gear is way over priced & speakers just dont go out,they get blown,the way most speakers are damaged is from user abuse like underpowering them with weak receivers/amps,trying to get volume levels the amp is uncapable of,the other way is to over power them for long extended periods of time,which is more preferable than under powering them,there is always the slim chance of a manufacturing defect but that is a very small chance, plus the first owner allready put the speakers through testing manufacturing quality by using them.

Warranty's are way over rated in speakers,especially very expensive speakers,lets say you blow a tweeter ,you simply remove the tweeter & call the manufacturer with the model #,tell them you need a tweeter & pay by credit card,worst case scenario you have to pay $100 & thats it,but being that you bought at a 60% discount from buying used & saved $1,500 your still ahead $1,400 over buying new,thats not a small savings for simple peice of mind of worring about warrenty,changing a tweeter in most cases is a 5 minute task a 10 year old can handle.

Pick a pair of speakers you like from Audiogon,use the zip code search feature to find a pair near you,go see first hand how they look & sound,its not an experience that most people are expecting,where the seller has a dirty home & is trying to pass off his old junk on somebody,most of the hi end speakers being sold are in mint condition & have been babbied by anal audiophiles who change speakers as often as underwear.

Here is another (example ) link of used Usher prices,notice the OBO next to the price.http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1199854956

 

[highfihoney]

I just checked the link i gave you to the seller selling the 5 peice Usher set,the link is now active again,from looking at the ad the reason the first link experied is that it was over 30 days old,the new link is 1 day old.

This is great news for a buyer,this is the sellers 2nd time listing them & he has the ad marked as OBO which is "or best offer".

Here's the link again,notice that the rear speakers are still new in box,this seller is motivated to sell & likely to discount further.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1200079657

 

[majorloser]

Majorloser: the SVS sub's look uber cool. Given that my *****y neighbor complains about base, most of the time I'd be listening to my movies and playing games at in the "4-6" range. Loud, but not enough to really piss off the guy we share a wall with. Is the SVS sub overkill on a 13x23 room where I'm not going to play it loud very much? Is the 12" going to linger too much when my wife plays her fancy music? Would a 10" give tighter, more controlled base at these lower playing levels do you reckon?

The SVS SB-12 Plus in piano black would work out perfectly. It's only 15" x 14" x 14" in size. Very compact. Granted, it doesn't have the impact of the ported subs but would blend in well with the Ushers. It also has a lot of control for a sub in that price range and size. I think it can definitely outperform any 10" sub on the market.

I may not be the right person to ask about how many subs to put in a room. Some of these guys think I went overboard for my theater, but one SB-12 Plus would not be considered overkill in a room half that size. But it's size and music performance will definitely please the WAF.

Now of course if it was me, I'd be looking at two SVS PB-13 Ultras in piano black. But I like pissing off the neighbors

EDIT: I'm not trying to push SVS. I personally own HSU subs. But in your case since your looking at something in a nice finish, SVS and AV123 offer some of the nicest finish options.

 

[Davemcc]

Dave: do you miss out on any sound going from the Usher's to the Era's you think? To a musicians ear (my wife's) is there going to be any difference for music, movies or games? In general if you would guess, would you say the Usher's would give a "fuller" sound because they have a larger box? Anything Like that?

By all accounts, the Ushers are a very good speaker, although I haven't heard them myself. The issue I would have with them is the size and openness of the room you're using them in. One issue that recently surfaced during the Audioholics bookshelf shootout is that the bass driver can bottom out if you drive them fairly hard, which you might need to do in a room that size. Granted, you are using a sub for the heavy bass duties, so it's something you should be a aware of but is not likely to be an issue.

As far as achieving fuller sound, don't be deceived by the size of the Era cabinet. It is a very full sound with a surprising amount of low end response. I've driven mine very hard and I'm completely satisfied with the quality of sound and their ability to drive hard when asked. I continue to audition speakers whenever I get the chance and I haven't found anything to make me second guess my decision to go with the Era.

 

[zumbo]

Two pair for $872.74
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=JMCH707S

Center $199.95
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=JMCHCC70S

Sub $499.99
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=JMCOSW800

$1572.68 total for speaker system. Jam-up deal. You will have to pay shipping on the sub. Should hit your budget perfect. Make sure to pick light cherry for the speakers, so they will match the sub.

PS. Sony speakers may be a little better. Just kidding.

 

[aussiebrydon]

Thanks very much for all the advice guys. Now I just have to get all my Christmas Presents as money towards my cool speaker system.

Do you guys know of anyone that lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with Usher's or Era's? I'd love to give them a listen before I take the plunge.

The wife has spoken and she officially wants black or dark walnut which I haven't seen yet so black it is.

If anyone is selling a sweet black 5.1 speaker system up to $2,000 that would rock my wife's musical senses and still sound good for my Xbox then look me up! I should have the money around Christmas time.

 

[zumbo]

The wife has spoken and she officially wants black or dark walnut which I haven't seen yet so black it is.

Isn't this the same wife that said the system needed to be a Sony?

Total retail for the system I posted would be $2850. You can have it for $1572.68. You will not find a better speaker system(new) for that price. OTOH, they may be sold-out by Christmas.

 

[highfihoney]

On top of what Zumbo just said xmas time is the worst time to buy anything,if you need to save cash for a few months then wait till after xmas to buy.