Heights or no heights, that is the question.

[JonnyFive23517]

Hi all, first post so please be gentle

I've currently got a 7.1 setup as follows, all by SV sound: 3 of the "S" series center channels arranged as L/C/R, 4 of the "S" series bookshelves arranged as rears and two heights. I have a SB-13 subwoofer which is shoring up the low end quite well.

The heights are in line with the (makeshift) towers and are up at about a 35 degree angle. I have a Marantz SR6006 with Audyssey XT which can do Dolby PLIIz for heights as well as the Audyessey DSX height or wide processing.

I've read that Audyssey heights are suppose to be at a 45 degree angle off of center, whereas the Dolby heights are meant to be in line with the towers. As that is what I have, I primarily use the Dolby PLIIz mode.

Question:

I honestly can not decide if I like the heights or not. I enjoy the directness and clarity of the 5.1 setup. On the other hand, the heights do add a much broader sound stage with a more "diffuse" feel to it. My significant other prefers the latter by far, but I'm just not sure how I feel about it.

Given that my 'towers' are not really towers at all, it may be good to keep for a more impressive sound stage? Perhaps when I get those upgraded it will be less necessary. Anyone have any thoughts on the use of the heights or more listening tests I should perform? Thanks!

 

[96cobra10101]

Are your surrounds left and right surrounds or just rear surrounds?

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Are your surrounds left and right surrounds or just rear surrounds?

Sorry I wasn't clear. They are left and right surrounds.

 

[96cobra10101]

Sorry I wasn't clear. They are left and right surrounds.

Alright. Have you tried the height's as rear surrounds? I would try it out and see if you like that over the the heights, if your room and avr allow for it.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Alright. Have you tried the height's as rear surrounds? I would try it out and see if you like that over the the heights, if your room and avr allow for it.

That's an interesting point. I'm just not sure how I feel about the matrixed information going to the heights, it would be better to use the "real" information encoded in the rear surrounds for a 7.1 system. Problem is, I don't really have the room to mount rear surrounds properly. I have heard that if you can't do them the way they are meant to be setup, they are not worth doing.


I keep A/B'ing it, going back and forth between the 5.1 and 7.1 with heights....I just can't make up my mind. Thanks for the input.

 

[fuzz092888]

That's an interesting point. I'm just not sure how I feel about the matrixed information going to the heights, it would be better to use the "real" information encoded in the rear surrounds for a 7.1 system. Problem is, I don't really have the room to mount rear surrounds properly. I have heard that if you can't do them the way they are meant to be setup, they are not worth doing.


I keep A/B'ing it, going back and forth between the 5.1 and 7.1 with heights....I just can't make up my mind. Thanks for the input.

I don't have my rear channels setup properly and they sound pretty darn good. Neither the rears or the side surrounds are in the "correct" position, but they perform pretty darn well. I think a big part of the performance is also the quality of the surrounds. Many people also say that you don't have to spend any money on surrounds. I'm calling bullsh!t. I used to be in that camp, but that was until I heard some real surround speakers.

Now I have almost thousands invested in side and rear surrounds and am considering putting more into them. I love movies and for me, it is more than worth it for what they deliver.

Try it out in the 7.1 setup and just do the best you can. Realize that you'll have to toe the rear surrounds in pretty hard to get them to blend well. In this respect it will take some experimentation to get the best sound.

I'll also point out that, while 7.1 is starting to gain momentum, the majority of movies these days are still in 5.1 so the rear surrounds are still matrixed sound. You have to check each disc.

I'm also considering adding heights, but my front two towers throw a big soundstage and are pretty darn accurate so I wonder if it will be worth it. However, if your soundstage isn't that big, then heights will definitely help make it feel bigger. It's really up to you personal tastes and preferences.

Cheers

 

[JonnyFive23517]

I'll also point out that, while 7.1 is starting to gain momentum, the majority of movies these days are still in 5.1 so the rear surrounds are still matrixed sound. You have to check each disc.

I think one thing that weighs heavy into my choices is that I prefer punch and clarity versus size and boom. In that respect, 5.1 might be a much better choice for me even if the towers aren't that impressive. Although I will say for their size/price ($100 on closeout), the "S" series center channels perform pretty well.

I wonder if, when 7.1 becomes standard, it will change from having 4 rear/surround speakers to having 2 rears and the 2 additional channels as heights standard.

 

[fuzz092888]

I think one thing that weighs heavy into my choices is that I prefer punch and clarity versus size and boom. In that respect, 5.1 might be a much better choice for me even if the towers aren't that impressive. Although I will say for their size/price ($100 on closeout), the "S" series center channels perform pretty well.

I wonder if, when 7.1 becomes standard, it will change from having 4 rear/surround speakers to having 2 rears and the 2 additional channels as heights standard.

That last bit is doubtful I would think. You would only be able to have those heights and wides with distinct content when 9+ channels are standard and then you can choose which channels you want to use (just a guess).

I forget what receiver you have, but I think it is either Denon or Onkyo that offers an option for when you have heights attached that allows you to transmit the content from the front two towers to both the heights and the front towers so that your soundstage gets bigger and wider (while also moving the imaging up a bit).

However, there is no substitute for great speakers that image well and project a nice big soundstage on their own. Adding the heights won't lose you any punch, possibly some clarity though (this does comment does not apply to the setting mentioned above because I've never tried that before and don't know how it sounds).

 

[avengineer]

Audyssey has said of their DSX system that if you can only add two front speakers, the width channels are preferred, not height.

The speakers plan for 7.1 in the home has already been well established and published by Dolby and THX. Though there are actually 3 different layouts, they are all basically similar in that the extra channels beyond the standard 5.1 are in the back somewhere. The number of films release to the home market with real 7.1 channel soundtracks remains low for two reasons:

1. The standard theatrical speaker plan is essentially 5.1 with many surround L and R speakers creating a rather diffuse sound field. A few films were mixed for 6.1 with a single back channel, but the channel was matrixed into and recovered from the surround L and R. The installed base of theater systems are vastly 5.1 with a few older 7.1 theatrical systems where there are 5 screen channels, two surrounds, and just a very few 6.1 systems. Theatrical mixes are targeted at the average theater, which is 5.1.

2. The installed based of consumer home systems breaks down to 2.0, then 5.1, then a few 7.1 systems. There's little point in spending the money and time to create a special mix that is only heard in a small percentage of homes, and that's what keeps the 7.1 discrete channel movie count down and will for the near future.

 

[Alex2507]

My significant other prefers the latter by far, but I'm just not sure that I'm ready to stop sleeping on the couch.

Fixed that for you.

Seriously, go with the heights for a matter of weeks and then switch back. See what you think then.

I don't have room for rear surrounds either but I just couldn't resist adding them in. I put mine on the floor behind the couch angled up to the sweet spot of a reclined sectional. I'm only really aware of them when I level match the speakers. Otherwise it all sort of just blends and doesn't call any attention to itself.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

I forget what receiver you have, but I think it is either Denon or Onkyo that offers an option for when you have heights attached that allows you to transmit the content from the front two towers to both the heights and the front towers so that your soundstage gets bigger and wider (while also moving the imaging up a bit).

However, there is no substitute for great speakers that image well and project a nice big soundstage on their own. Adding the heights won't lose you any punch, possibly some clarity though (this does comment does not apply to the setting mentioned above because I've never tried that before and don't know how it sounds).

The Marantz SR6006 has Dolby PLIIz height as well as Dolby Movie/Music/Game mode (and DTS modes, stereo, multi ch stereo). I believe in the Dolby Movie/Music/Game and DTS modes, the same info is sent to the heights as is sent to the towers. (At least that's what I'm hearing, correct me if I'm wrong). In the Dolby PLIIz height mode, matrixed information different from the towers is sent up there.

I'll keep doing my listening tests, no clear winner.

As for wides, I'd love to but I just don't have the floor space. This house was all about location location location, not modern conveniences or space :/

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Fixed that for you.

Seriously, go with the heights for a matter of weeks and then switch back. See what you think then.

Lol. I was going to mount the heights into the plaster wall above the mantle but my SO talked me out of it (Those of you who don't know the joy of mounting into plaster walls don't know what you're missing!). Instead I mounted them to Sanus stands angled down, then mounted the Sanus stands to the mantle. The SO considered it "passable." haha

 

[fuzz092888]

The Marantz SR6006 has Dolby PLIIz height as well as Dolby Movie/Music/Game mode (and DTS modes, stereo, multi ch stereo). I believe in the Dolby Movie/Music/Game and DTS modes, the same info is sent to the heights as is sent to the towers. (At least that's what I'm hearing, correct me if I'm wrong). In the Dolby PLIIz height mode, matrixed information different from the towers is sent up there.

I'll keep doing my listening tests, no clear winner.

As for wides, I'd love to but I just don't have the floor space. This house was all about location location location, not modern conveniences or space :/

I'm not entirely sure, but for the most realistic soundfield you (or at least I) wouldn't want the same exact information coming from the height channels as the front towers. I know how dolby PLIIz works and I think it's interesting. I haven't done a ton of listening with it becasue I usually use the THX listening modes, but I assume they're done similarly.

If you were planning on mounting the heights on the wall (or already have them up there) the wides can work much the same way. Mount them on the wall in a left and right position either on the front wall or forward on the side walls and then hook them up as wides.