Healthcare: American Style

[NicolasKL]

Absolutely not, which is why the private HC industry should be eliminated by the government.

Obama-care all the way baby!! If it fails, I swear I will move to Cuba!

Translation: I couldn't honestly answer your questions, so I tried to play it off by making a lame sarcastic joke. True?

 

[cfrizz]

This is the biggest bunch of BS around. There are plenty of cheap, irresponsible, or just dumb people out there.

Yes, you can do whatever you want with YOUR body, but when it comes to the responsibility of children, they shouldn't have to suffer just because their parents are cheap or just stupid.

I distinctly remember a case here in Boston where some Christian Science parents let their child die a painful un-necessary death by not taking him/her to the hospital for a bowel obstruction that a hospital stay would have taken care of. They decided to pray for the poor kid instead. Needless to say it didn't work!

A court of law found them guilty!

People prove all the time that they will not, are not willing to do the right or intelligent thing, which is why we have laws & govt, & legislation to at least ensure some of the basics.

I agree 100%. But my point remains that the federal government should not be in charge of dictating how you care for your body or your children - or if you do at all. I do, and will always carry health insurance for me and my family. But it shouldn't be because the government says I have to.

 

[rnatalli]

Absolutely not, which is why the private HC industry should be eliminated by the government.

Obama-care all the way baby!! If it fails, I swear I will move to Cuba!

I suggest Iran or Saudi Arabia. Those are countries run by right-wing folks.

 

[Adam]

Obama-care all the way baby!! If it fails, I swear I will move to Cuba!

I guess every cloud does have a silver lining.

J/K!

 

[cfrizz]

I suggest Iran or Saudi Arabia. Those are countries run by right-wing folks.

I guess every cloud does have a silver lining.

J/K!

ROTFLMAO! Simply outstanding.

It would be nice for all these so called Americans who would essentially do away with govt. would just go to another country where they would be free to do whatever they wanted.

Oh wait a minute, no such country exists oh well. Maybe they need to leave anyway & start their own country.

 

[rnatalli]

ROTFLMAO! Simply outstanding.

It would be nice for all these so called Americans who would essentially do away with govt. would just go to another country where they would be free to do whatever they wanted.

Oh wait a minute, no such country exists oh well. Maybe they need to leave anyway & start their own country.

Sure it does. Somalia is a good example. Piracy is a good line of work.

 

[highfigh]

This is the biggest bunch of BS around. There are plenty of cheap, irresponsible, or just dumb people out there.

Yes, you can do whatever you want with YOUR body, but when it comes to the responsibility of children, they shouldn't have to suffer just because their parents are cheap or just stupid.

I distinctly remember a case here in Boston where some Christian Science parents let their child die a painful un-necessary death by not taking him/her to the hospital for a bowel obstruction that a hospital stay would have taken care of. They decided to pray for the poor kid instead. Needless to say it didn't work!

A court of law found them guilty!

People prove all the time that they will not, are not willing to do the right or intelligent thing, which is why we have laws & govt, & legislation to at least ensure some of the basics.

You're absolutely right- there's no shortage of stupid people, anywhere.

How would you force these people to take their child in for treatment if their religion prohibits it, even if the US has a different health care system? If the child was sick enough, they couldn't have gone on their own, anyway.

Government shouldn't be there to make decisions for us. When that happens, we're in a dangerous place. Laws are for protecting the majority from the minority who are clearly not able to govern their own actions in a way that won't harm others. Government is there to assure the general safety of the people but on a level that's commensurate with their scope. Local and state agencies should deal with local and state issues and the Federal Government should deal with national issues and rarely, if ever, become involved at the state or local level.

The good thing about religious freedom is that we're all free to practice whatever religion we want, along with any odd aspects. The bad thing about religious freedom is that when people are free to practice whatever religion they want, the odd aspects are usually the cause of people dying.

We had a teenage girl die because the parents chose to pray over her instead of getting treatment for her diabetes. Also found guilty.

 

[highfigh]

I suggest Iran or Saudi Arabia. Those are countries run by right-wing folks.

Again, you're making the generalization that all right-wingers are bad, It's the extremists from any party that cause the problems.

 

[highfigh]

ROTFLMAO! Simply outstanding.

It would be nice for all these so called Americans who would essentially do away with govt. would just go to another country where they would be free to do whatever they wanted.

Oh wait a minute, no such country exists oh well. Maybe they need to leave anyway & start their own country.

There aren't many who want to do away with government. The ones who do are called 'anarchists'. However, no government should make so many decisions for its people that it amounts to a lack of freedom, taking away the incentive to create/invent/work for what they want. Our government is the single largest employer in the country and because of the lack of attention paid toward how well the employees do their jobs and efficiency in general, those of us who pay income tax effectively work until the end of May for no pay because that's how much it costs to run the US government. Well, it used to, anyway.

We have people here who don't belong in the general population, engaging in insane levels of criminal activity. Who's actually doing something about them? Police, fire, EMS and hospitals see the carnage from these people every hour of every day. Who pays for it? The victims, families of the victims and US taxpayers.

We have people in this country who think that it's OK to turn down work that they feel is beneath them, too hard, the pay is too low or they just don't want to work. Some of these people didn't finish school or if they did, they didn't bother to try to learn much of anything so they can't reason, add/subtract/spell/read or think things through before acting. This makes them basically unemployable. For this, they sit at home and collect money from taxpayers, through government programs. Now, the US government is the largest shareholder in two automakers, they forced the removal of the CEOs of these two corporations (unprecedented in our country's history), they control banking and lending and they only want control of more. All they want is more. They made the rules by which the lenders, manufacturers, banks and unions ran amok and in less than 6 months, our new government has made it possible for the federal deficit to increase to a level that is more than all deficits combined, since the founding of the country.

Our government is failing us in a huge way and it's not just one party. They work for us. They're supposed to govern us loosely but not subjugate us. No government at all can't work. People are too stupid, greedy, violent and disgusting to allow that. However, just making something illegal doesn't necessarily keep people from doing it and our overcrowded prison systems bear witness to that, in spades. Because of them, and they're clearly the minority, the majority loses certain freedoms. Whether some of those lost freedoms are seen as "no big deal" by some, the potential loss still must be debated in order to keep the government from being allowed to make laws with no input from the rest of us. Our Congress is supposed to represent the people's needs and make sure the government doesn't become a dictatorship or by virtue of the 22nd Amendment, a monarchy. Even that's at risk since there's a movement to repeal that amendment in order for Obama to stay on after the current two term limit.

 

[cfrizz]

Oh please, These companies have been & always will be looking out for their CEO's & boards & running amok with or without regulation. All of the regulations came down BECAUSE Big business is all about profit & screwing as many people over as they can.

If it weren't for regulations we would all be working like people over in India, which means pennies on the dollar with NO healthcare, no set wages, no vacation time, maximum hours allowed to be worked. This where OUR jobs are being shipped off to.

They HAD people in place performing these jobs & dumped them onto the streets because it is cheaper to have it done in India.

You call is business, I call it WRONG!

 

[highfigh]

Oh please, These companies have been & always will be looking out for their CEO's & boards & running amok with or without regulation. All of the regulations came down BECAUSE Big business is all about profit & screwing as many people over as they can.

If it weren't for regulations we would all be working like people over in India, which means pennies on the dollar with NO healthcare, no set wages, no vacation time, maximum hours allowed to be worked. This where OUR jobs are being shipped off to.

They HAD people in place performing these jobs & dumped them onto the streets because it is cheaper to have it done in India.

You call is business, I call it WRONG!

I don't disagree that big business is way out of control but they still operate within the guidelines set by the government which, as we all know, isn't too shy about taking money from anyone who offers it in order to sway their agenda. One thing you aren't acknowledging is the demand of consumers, who trip all over themselves in any effort to save a few bucks on something that can't always be made well for that much less. What we have achieved is a glut of crap, made to be replaced instead of repaired. You made a comment about planned obsolescence in another thread and this is directly related. If everyone only bought based on quality, we'd all have to make a lot more money than we do. Americans generally want the most, not the best. This is a complete turnaround from post WWII thinking and while a large part of that was to keep people from buying imported goods, it also reflected national pride. We don't have much of that now and because of the consumer price vs corporate profit battle, most of the biggest sellers can't be made in the US anymore. In the eyes of many in business, labor rates are too high to make their goods here, although another part of the cost is regulations that don't exist in other countries. Now, Obama wants to slap an 8% payroll tax on small businesses that can't afford to pay for health insurance. How can that not lead to higher prices? If they can't afford the health insurance, how can they afford that 8% of payroll tax out of pocket? Huge corporations can sometimes save money by self-insuring, but only if they have enough employees who want to participate. If a spouse has a great health care plan, there's no need to join.

Business doesn't have to be run that way but as I have often said and posted, people want too much and have replaced the word 'need' with 'want'. When this happens, someone else is gonna get screwed and it's just a matter of perspective, on all sides. Employees want more money, shareholders want to see more profits. If said business delivers more profits, the employees say they're being screwed, but the shareholders laugh all the way to the bank. This has gone on for close to a thousand years and it won't change anytime soon. When people see what others have and decide that they want that, what they actually need is completely forgotten.

I assume you like to save money, right? There's absolutely no difference in you saving money and some business making a profit and there's absolutely nothing wrong with a company making a profit. The difference is in how we cut our costs. Someone who's undercharged and doesn't say anything is no different from a large corporation that operates dishonestly. It's just a matter of scale and it always starts with a first incident for an otherwise honest person to go the wrong way. Some people seem to have been born dishonest, but most learn it, IMO.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Sure it does. Somalia is a good example. Piracy is a good line of work.

Good thinking. Forgot about it. While they have some government, it is very chaotic and no power.

Just be sure not to invite the US Navy to rescue the guys 3 shots, 3 dead pirates

 

[mtrycrafts]

...or by virtue of the 22nd Amendment, a monarchy. Even that's at risk since there's a movement to repeal that amendment in order for Obama to stay on after the current two term limit.

It ain't going to happen and certainly would take longer than 8 years to make it happen and, I doubt enough people would vote to make it happen. I won't, even though I like the guy

 

[highfigh]

It ain't going to happen and certainly would take longer than 8 years to make it happen and, I doubt enough people would vote to make it happen. I won't, even though I like the guy

What about Congress? They're the ones who would actually be voting on it, although they may stick their toe in the water by way of a few polls.

 

[MidnightSensi]

What scares me, is that I say I have an opinion when people ask, but the truth is it's so complex and interconnected with other things, that I have no idea what the answer is or should be, and I'm not sure we as a country can figure it out.

Sometimes I think the issue has gone so far, that both ways and everywhere inbetween will be the wrong one. If we don't do national healthcare, then as the economy crumbles, people and companies won't be able to afford it. If we do, it'll be a typical government run entity - complete garbage.

So, basically, I'm optimistic on the issue.

 

[rnatalli]

Again, you're making the generalization that all right-wingers are bad, It's the extremists from any party that cause the problems.

Just responding to someone else's generalizations and sarcasm with a little of my own

 

[markw]

I've never seen Initiative & Referendum on a national issue.

That's what it would take for a "popular" vote in an issue like this, I would hope.

Remember, we not a democracy where we vote on issues directly. We are a republic, which means we vote people into office that we think will represent what their constituents want. They are supposed to listen to us but they are only obligated to vote for what they "think" is in our best interests, not what theirr constituents want.

So, if a large enough majority of our representitives think we would be better off with another form of government, they could easoily decide amongst themselves what parts of the constitution they could throw out and vote the change into effect.

Chilling, eh?

FWIW, I'm still waiting for I & R to come to Jersey but I'm not holding my breath. That would give us peons too much say in our local government.