Headphone System Help

[glaughgluagh]

Hi everyone. I've been lurking here for a little while, and I'm still kind of ignorant about the technical side of hifi, but I love music and want to get the most out of my listening time. With that in mind, I was hoping that those of you with knowledge about headphone systems could help me out.

A few years ago, I pieced together a modest home headphone setup for my apartment. Thin walls meant no boom boom, so headphones were a compromise. I ended up loving them. Now I'm spending my days working in an office, and looking to upgrade my system. Here's what I have right now:

Denon DCM-370 cd player
Creek OBH-11 amplifier
Sennheiser HD-600 headphones
No fancy interconnects, cables, or power supplies.

In an effort to preserve my wallet and my sanity, I haven't kept up with what's out there in terms of headphone stuff since I bought my gear. I'm just trying to put feelers out there for how much an upgrade would cost, what I should replace first, what manufacturers and items I should be looking at, and if I can even get measurable improvement without replacing everything. I like how things sound now, but couldn't they always sound better? My budget is somewhat flexible, but let's say I don't want to exceed $2000 and work from there, keeping in mind that I'm more than willing to hunt for deals on eBay and elsewhere.

 

[WmAx]

Hi everyone. I've been lurking here for a little while, and I'm still kind of ignorant about the technical side of hifi, but I love music and want to get the most out of my listening time. With that in mind, I was hoping that those of you with knowledge about headphone systems could help me out.

A few years ago, I pieced together a modest home headphone setup for my apartment. Thin walls meant no boom boom, so headphones were a compromise. I ended up loving them. Now I'm spending my days working in an office, and looking to upgrade my system. Here's what I have right now:

Denon DCM-370 cd player
Creek OBH-11 amplifier
Sennheiser HD-600 headphones
No fancy interconnects, cables, or power supplies.

In an effort to preserve my wallet and my sanity, I haven't kept up with what's out there in terms of headphone stuff since I bought my gear. I'm just trying to put feelers out there for how much an upgrade would cost, what I should replace first, what manufacturers and items I should be looking at, and if I can even get measurable improvement without replacing everything. I like how things sound now, but couldn't they always sound better? My budget is somewhat flexible, but let's say I don't want to exceed $2000 and work from there, keeping in mind that I'm more than willing to hunt for deals on eBay and elsewhere.

If you can specify the parameters concerning the HD600 that you do not like, I (or others) can try to suggest a headphone that meets your specification(s). The HD600 is a pretty linear headphone(though not without fault), and the biggest upgrade you can probably make is to add a proper DSP equalizer such as a Behringer DEQ2496. With the inherent smooth, relative resonant free response of the HD600, it is easy to customize the sound with a proper equalizer to your preference(s).

-Chris

 

[glaughgluagh]

Hi Chris, thanks for the reply and your prior postings here, I've found them very informative. I have no complaints with the HD 600 in particular, I like them a lot, but my only quality point of reference are my previous headphones, a pair of Grado SR-225 that never had a dedicated power source. If anything, I would be hesitant to replace my HD 600 at this point. That said, I have been reading about the HD 650, and was wondering how they differ from the HD 600 and if they represent a significant improvement. There aren't any shops locally that carry this sort of niche gear, so all I have to go on is word of mouth unfortunately.

Your question has made me think about things a bit more though, and looking at the situation logically it seems that the best avenue might be to get the most I possibly can out of the headphones I currently have (given that I am satisfied with them), unless the HD 650's are the clear-cut winner both absolutely and in terms of cost/benefit.

I'm curious about the Behringer DEQ2496, I have no experience with manual EQ - is that unit relatively user friendly (assume no knowledge but a willingness to learn on my part)? I like the idea of being able to customize the sound to my liking, it would certainly give me a better sense of what I do like, because right now I'm still figuring that out.

If I was to replace my source/amplifier, what would you suggest? I find it hard to believe that I have the perfect matches right now for my headphones as it stands (personal preference aside). I guess I'm stuck in a position where my only option is to try new things to see how they sound, but I don't know where to begin. I'm thinking the best place to start is to narrow my search to the things that I know aren't a waste of money (i.e. snake oil or in diminishing returns land). Any thoughts?

 

[Tod]

Ever tried http://www.headphone.com ?

An excellent source in my opinion. They have frequency response graphs for pretty much all headphones except earbuds (and the 600/650 are almost identical), their own line of amps, as well as other amp brands and a host of other products.

Here's their list of improvements for the 650 (I have the 600s and am plenty happy for now, by the way).

First and foremost, Sennheiser has improved the baffling damper for tighter acoustic control, and boy did that work! The measurements of these headphones are as close to perfect as we’ve seen, and the sound is as close to perfectly neutral as we’ve heard. The traditional Sennheiser 'warmth' has been coupled to a clarity of detail in the HD650 that is hard to beat by most other reference-grade headphones. The grilles on the outside of the earpieces have been made sturdier; those who have suffered a dented housing on their HD600’s will be appreciative. The HD650 cord has also been much-improved with a thicker type of OFC cable terminated to a full-sized 1/4" plug. A new velour headband pad design improves on the already legendary comfort of the HD650 headphones, and a slightly higher tension on the earcup adjusters makes for a more secure fit.

 

[glaughgluagh]

Hi Tod,

I've been to Headphone.com before, but never bought anything from them. It sounds like the difference between the HD 600/650 is largely in apparent build quality and comfort. Having never had any complaints with how the HD 600 feels (I can't count the number of times an album has ended and I won't bother to take them off because they're just so comfortable) I guess my upgrade budget will go elsewhere.

When I was first shopping for a headphone amp a few years ago, I heard really mixed things about the reliability of their HeadRoom Micro/Mobile lines, which steered me away. Whether that is still the case or if it ever was outside of isolated instances, I don't know.

What are you using to drive your HD 600?

 

[sholling]

Ever tried http://www.headphone.com ?

An excellent source in my opinion. They have frequency response graphs for pretty much all headphones except earbuds (and the 600/650 are almost identical), their own line of amps, as well as other amp brands and a host of other products.

Here's their list of improvements for the 650 (I have the 600s and am plenty happy for now, by the way).

First and foremost, Sennheiser has improved the baffling damper for tighter acoustic control, and boy did that work! The measurements of these headphones are as close to perfect as we’ve seen, and the sound is as close to perfectly neutral as we’ve heard. The traditional Sennheiser 'warmth' has been coupled to a clarity of detail in the HD650 that is hard to beat by most other reference-grade headphones. The grilles on the outside of the earpieces have been made sturdier; those who have suffered a dented housing on their HD600’s will be appreciative. The HD650 cord has also been much-improved with a thicker type of OFC cable terminated to a full-sized 1/4" plug. A new velour headband pad design improves on the already legendary comfort of the HD650 headphones, and a slightly higher tension on the earcup adjusters makes for a more secure fit.

I'll second your suggestion. Headphone.com are some seriously sharp people and it's where I bought my HD600s. Great jazz/classical cans! they need a ton of power and only a receiver or the larger Headphone.com portable amps will drive them. Thankfully I have a house (30' to the neighbor's garage) now and those sweet cans are probably as retired as I am.

 

[WmAx]

That said, I have been reading about the HD 650, and was wondering how they differ from the HD 600 and if they represent a significant improvement. There aren't any shops locally that carry this sort of niche gear, so all I have to go on is word of mouth unfortunately.

Little change. A proper equalizer will of far greater value in *improving* the sound towards your preference(s).

I'm curious about the Behringer DEQ2496, I have no experience with manual EQ - is that unit relatively user friendly (assume no knowledge but a willingness to learn on my part)?

You do have to learn how to use the device, but it's simple once you get a grasp of the menu/operation structure. I might even suggest the Behringer DCX2496, as it is both an equalizer and a powerful active crossover system. It would allow you to do some unique things in the future, for example, cross your headphones over at 100Hz[or whatever frequency you choose, or slope you prefer -- it's a DSP device] and use a subwoofer for the bass. Or, you can even design and/or build your own speaker system using the active crossover system. The unit has 6 analog outputs, configurable in any way you please; you could use the device to drive 3 pairs of headphones, each with their own custom equalization curves, at the same time -- if you so desired. These are just benefits; if you don't want to use these features, the DCX is still a powerful equalizer if that is the only function that you want to use. Also, the DCX can be connected to your PC, and in conjunction with the Behringer DCX interface GUI, you can essentially *draw* the equalization curve that you want on the screen and it will take effect in real time.

If I was to replace my source/amplifier, what would you suggest?

I have never measured, nor seen 3rd party measurements(of sufficient detail) of the device you are using to know if it's a good amplifier or not. However, a *good* headphone amplifier is not difficult to purchase for a low amount of money. For cost efficiency, a Behringer UB1202 mini-mixer($80 USD) has a headphone output that can drive any standard headphone[as in, not an electrostatic that regards a special amp/bias, for example], regardless of sensitivity, with no audible noise or distortion. Or you can spend much more and get an amplifier that equals the Behringer performance, if it's a pride-of-ownership issue. However, you may have requirements for specific cosmetic(s) or other feature(s)[such as crossfeed] that a specific device may be needed to provide, and upon providing such details, I can make other recommendation(s).

-Chris

 

[Nick250]

I listen to headphones instead of my speakers sometimes purely because they are more pleasing to me later in the evening. I use Senns HD580's about 99% of the time and I power them with a Corda Headamp. I paid about $400 for the headamp about five years ago and it is a very nice piece of equipment. That being said, I can't say it's a sonic improvement over powering the 580's with a receiver. I also bought the Creek to use at work since I don't have anything else to power them with and it also sounds about the same as a receiver. I don't have a receiver at work so this is a good solution for me.

At home I have a little setup next to my comfy chair which consists of a small footprint Panasonic CD/DVD player, with the Headamp sitting on top and the 580's plugged into the Headamp.

If I had to do it over again, I would go with WmAx's suggestion of a Behringer UB1202 mini-mixer. The others are nice, but price does not equal better sound quality compared to the more expensive solutions IMO.

Nick

 

[Steve1000]

I listen to headphones instead of my speakers sometimes purely because they are more pleasing to me later in the evening. I use Senns HD580's about 99% of the time and I power them with a Corda Headamp. I paid about $400 for the headamp about five years ago and it is a very nice piece of equipment. That being said, I can't say it's a sonic improvement over powering the 580's with a receiver. I also bought the Creek to use at work since I don't have anything else to power them with and it also sounds about the same as a receiver. I don't have a receiver at work so this is a good solution for me.

At home I have a little setup next to my comfy chair which consists of a small footprint Panasonic CD/DVD player, with the Headamp sitting on top and the 580's plugged into the Headamp.

If I had to do it over again, I would go with WmAx's suggestion of a Behringer UB1202 mini-mixer. The others are nice, but price does not equal better sound quality compared to the more expensive solutions IMO.

Nick

Agreed... based on experience.

I've got a Corda HA-1 headphone amplifier and a Behringer UB802 mixer both hooked into my system. For headphone listening, the UB802 mixer gets used everyday while the Corda HA-1 generally sits idle. Set flat, they sound the same (perfectly transparent) to me. The Corda HA-1 does have a fairly nice crossfeed, while the UB802 has tone controls, panning which can emulate primitive crossfeed, level meters, adjustable gain, and flashing lights. The UB802 is more flexible and more fun. It has the same published performance specs as the UB1202 WmAx refers to. I got mine for $50. The Corda HA-1 was [cough cough] a little bit more expensive... my one and only foray into audiophile electronics. Actually, using the HA-1 for a little mini-system somewhere else in the house sounds like a nice idea -- thanks for the thought.

For the same price as a Corda HA-1, you can get a Behringer DEQ2496 digital equalizer and a Behringer mixer and have lots of spare change in your pocket. That's the system I use day-to-day for headphones.

 

[Shortsord]

The 650s compared to the 600s are very close, and not worth the upgrade difference on its own. The 650s will be a little warmer in the bass and a little bit less full in the mids, but otherwise much the same, ignoring comfort.

I'd first question, have you upgraded your cords at all on the 600s? A nice pair of mobius will really heighten the sound and open the soundstage, while some good cadras will simply clean up the existing sound, and are both quite a worthwhile investment. Outside of that, I'd say your amp is probably the main thing that needs to be changed.

Regarding headroom, they had a problem with their micro line a few years ago, but it has since been fixed well. The micro amp and dac are excellent components, as long as you get the upgraded module in the amp. I would also recommend looking at headamp, as their lines will be simpler to look through, and offer an equally strong sound.

For more info, a can-fan community as good as this one would be over at headfi.org, so you may want to check that out.

 

[googdot]

i second having a look at headfi - great community dealing with nothing but cans. http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=2

fwiw, i have been a grado customer for 20 years, using various products and have always been happy with the results

 

[heyitsmedusty]

I've found some HD-600's for $200. Would it be a mistake to pass on them?