Headphone Advice Please

[GreenJelly]

Im sorry, I dont need vibrating headphones....

My Gredo's sound like the best speakers Ive heard (lacking the real low base of course).

Now, I refuse to pay more then $100 for headphones... I just dont see the need, when the ones I got for under $100 amaze me...

Mike

 

[GreenJelly]

Mike,
Your ignorance is astounding. I don't usually make a habit of being terse with people in posts, but you have been throwing around a LOT of misinformation on the forums recently, this post included.

Wow, thanks... First, Ive never assumed I knew everything. Thoose that beleive they are not ignorant are the ones that are infact the ignorant ones. But I appreciate the kind words... I really do...

As far as misinformation on OTHER forum threads, it is not a good idea to bring up another thread to discredit someone else on another totally different topic. Thats not fair, and is a low blow.

If Im wrong then prove it, and I will appoligize, for If I am not wrong sometimes then I must not be human. Provide links, and references, and I will be more then willing to admit I dont know something. Without references you can not discredit someone.

1. Cup headphones do not echo. Some have reflection/resonance problems that are detrimental to accuracy, but that is different than an echo, which implies reverberance. The Sony MDR-V6/MDR-7506 headphones are high quality designs that do not suffer from any reflection/resonance problems. If you are seeking accuracy, you should start with the V6 or 7506.

I ment reflection/resonance... but couldnt come up with the exact term... then again, thanks for the correction.

2. The lower threshold of audibility is 20Hz, not 100Hz. Frequencies below ~80Hz (lower, in my opinion) are not very localizable, but they are certainly audible. If your headphones are barely audible below 100Hz, then you need to invest in a new pair. My MDR-7506 headphones are flat from subsonic to ultrasonic frequencies, and can be made even flatter with the help of a convolution filter. A lot of musical information appears in this range. Most of the fundamental tones of lower piano notes, bass notes, and such are located between 20Hz and 100Hz.

Show me a reference that bellow 80hz is audible... But see, I notice that you stated "in your opinion" which I often do, the same. However often times people skip over these little phrases and then I get blamed for spreading mis-information.

3. You are comparing garbage Bose drivers to high quality Sony units. This is not a fair comparison. It is true that Bose drivers can't produce usable response blow ~150Hz, but remember that a. This driver is a cheap, paper cone that is made to fatten up profit margins, not sound. b. The drivers are being used to create sound in a room that is hundreds if not thousands of cubic feet. Headphone drivers are placed right next to your ear, thereby allowing for full, even frequency response. To claim that headphones offer a limited frequency response because in-room speakers that use a similar size driver have sub-par performance is a serious fallacy.

I was attempting to point out the issue with small speakers, using satalites as an example. Use what ever company you want... Use B&W's smaller speakers, and hear the lack of mid range base and lower.

I only ask that before you post making wild accusations and claims that you do some research and fact checking beforehand to ensure that everyone is giving solid advice on the forum. Otherwise the helpfulness of the forum is hindered.

The helpfulness has been hindered due to people pulling out name calling, and then not checking with me to find out what I ment.

I am not the perfect writer I would like to be. I misspell words, and what I mean isnt always what I write. But Im here triing to help people every day, understand why they need too make up their own mind, realize that this isnt an exact world, and that to help people find life long speaker investments.

If you cant credit me that, nor respect me, then thats your problem and not mine... thanks for the response though...

 

[Pianoman84d]

When you say below 80hz is not audible what do you mean? If you are trying to say that if I played a sound on the piano that was at 60hz you could not hear anything, then you are wrong. But if you are trying to talk about whether you can localize sound below 80hz (tell where the sound is coming from) then I think I know what you mean. but just because bass is not localizable below 80hz does not mean it is not audible.

 

[emorphien]

Im sorry, I dont need vibrating headphones....

Panasonic has the market cornered with their (now defunct?) VMSS.

The HD280s don't vibrate on and on, but if there is enough low frequency information and you have them just loud enough, you can start to get the sensation of a very slight vibration. It's quite cool, and not distracting at all.

 

[GreenJelly]

I am wrong.... according to all the sources I looked up it is considered 20hz to be inaudible. However this is not always true with all people. Some people will not be able to hear allot higher then this. It is said that as we approach this value (20hz) that the amount of sound we hear is lessens, though the DB rating may not be dropping. The number 80hz is partially correct, cause this is where the linear drop downwords becomes very significant.

With this said, it is also been noted in my research that the higher frequencies at loud volumes are much more devistating to the human ear then the low frequencies we are talking about. This also confirms the above statements.

I also must say that assuming the above is true, then I would not benifit from any headphones that can produce accurate sound down to 20hz, for I simply do not enjoy listening to music at loud volumes. I enjoy my Gredos, because I can listen to them at all volumes that are acceptable to me, without any sense that I am lacking base.

----------------------------
Now as a counterclaim to the insulting words of Jaxvon..

To be ignorant, would be to ignore the facts, even when the facts are presented to the person. It is not wise to claim someone of beign ignorant.

Jaxvon, try and be usefull to the forum and provide corrections to errors beign made and back up such claims with references. You Jaxvon display great ignorance when you blindly claim, label, and insult people without knowledge of who they are or what they are about.

Lastly I must state, that the person who says he has all the answers actually has none at all. It is only through the acceptance of ones own ignorance regarding all things can a person truely be known as wise.

I feel I possess a great deal of ignorance to an incredible degree, on countless topics, ideas, and thoughts. For I am human, and I do not possess the wisdom of a god. I also do not make folly attempts at proving or thinking I am wise.

The only thing I can say for certain, is that I am more then happy to admit when Im wrong. However I must be presented with credible evidence and references, something rarely given here in counter arguements. I will not accept what someone says as beign true or false simply because they state it. I am a man of reason, and if provided with references, I am more then willing to change my position.

However as you can see, I am also a man of Philosophy, and will easily accept the most absurd arguement if it is made in an irrefutable way. For example; I say that 1+1=6 and that we have been fooled into beleiving it is 2 simply because we are unable to see the other 3 dimensions! Now try to prove that statement as wrong

WAIT... Please do not try to engage me in such a discussion regarding the above statement, for I will not partake. The result of such a discussion is known... It will end up with pages of claims and counter claims, followed by more claims, until we reach a point that the only counter claim we can make is the claim that started the discusion.

All arguements can become the result of such discourse, and as such, all peoples opinions must be respected.

 

[Nick250]

Based on reading his posts over the past few years I think that jaxvon's posts are usually well thought out and have substance to them. There is nothing in this thread to cause me to reconsider this.

Nick

 

[owasse]

Out of courtesy to all posters and with due respect, I am submitting this reply to thank all who gave their/opinions & advice on grado vs. sennheiser. My original post was not to start WWIII, but to receive feedback on the statement/review that the Grado 60 headphones were uncomfortable.

Thanks to all who posted in regard to the topic statement!

 

[Pianoman84d]

Please don't let this place turn into AVS. We don't need that kind of crap here. Lets keep it civil

 

[GreenJelly]

Certain things shouldn’t be said, and no one should be calling people out. These past few days, people here seem to be on edge.

It’s really unfortunate that this is happening, and I never thought that a site that is dedicated to accurate reproduction of Audio would come to such a poor conclusion. I have always respected other people’s points of view, even when I find them contrary to my own. ALLOT of people like speakers, headphones, amps, speaker wire, etc that I personally do not like. However, it is important that people know that the industry and buying experience is an individual based experience. I like my headphones to be Gredo's 60s and I like my coffee black. Others like their headphones to be Sony's and they like their coffee with cream.

I personally don’t think Cream is a good choice, for it isn’t very good on the heart. However, they make that cool non-fat powder creamer that comes in all those cool flavors. I’m often tempted to go and taste the creamer, and I enjoy it on these occasions. I have yet to insult someone for drinking coffee with cream in it, though maybe I should start

This forum is almost always a friendly place, however sometimes people write things without thinking (including myself). It is too bad that we are ignorant to our own hostile posts, and that we loose our tolerance as a response to such mistakes.

I hope and will pray that this behavior will change. I always TRY to be as inoffensive as I can, and if at any time I was offensive to another person, I will be more then happy to apologize, even if that person has done me wrong. I sometimes fail, and I welcome anyone with the courage to point out any such failures; so that I may make my wrongs into rights.

With that said, I personally have come to realize through this post that I am engaging in some stupid arguments. This is foolish on my part, and I personally will change my behavior. It simply isn’t worth arguing with people on some topics. I hope to have peaceful debate and not hostile behavior. This topic has clearly changed from debate into a hostile argument. I also hope to gain the wisdom to know when a topic has changed from debate into a harmful argument.

Mike

 

[emorphien]

Certain things shouldn’t be said, and no one should be calling people out. These past few days, people here seem to be on edge.

I suspect people are on edge because you are wandering from thread to thread saying a lot of big things with a lot of false information or faulty assumptions. You also make big, long and confusing posts.

 

[GreenJelly]

Its not really my problem if someone is upset with me, or believes I am wrong. I can only hope that they become more tolerant, and maybe post some references to correct me, so that the honest truth may come out, and that I and others can learn. I am not about to borrow their problems.

I don’t hold grudges, and if I get angry at someone for their statements, I need to apologize so that I may have a clear conscious. Nothing anyone says should get me Angry or feel hatred. If this happens, then I am the one experiencing these negative emotions, and am the one that is hurt.

Therefore the problem rests with those that attack people for what ever issue arises. The blame for these arguments is often misdirected and blame on the one that starts a discussion; however we all must take responsibly for partaking in such behavior. To single someone out because of a mistake or for being misinformed is a horrible and intolerable act.

This forum is a place to learn, teach and enjoy the hobby. It appears that you are contradicting this statement.

As for long posts, I like to give as much complete and accurate information as possible. I hope that if I am unclear, that later on in the post I may fix this mistake. If people are too lazy to read the posts and they don’t read it, that’s fine for me. If they get hostile towards me for writing large posts, then once again that is their problem and not mine.

It is also incorrect to place blame on an individual for someone else’s behavior. If I get into an argument, I loose. It doesn’t matter if I started the argument or ended it. I still loose.

As for this "false information" people keep referring to, then go to the post that I made, quote the statement, post a correction, and provide a back up reference. I will then learn, and not make the same mistake again. I am also more then happy to apologize for my mistake. Most of the clear occurrences that people claimed I was wrong, people had assumed I was spreading false information, when in fact they either didn’t understand exactly what was being said or they were not carefully reading the entire statement.

To claim I am spreading "False information" with out a single case of the above actions occurring is really a shame. The last and few times that I know I had made a mistake, and spread false information; I ended up researching the topic and finding that I was wrong. I also apologized.

There is NOTHING more I can possibly do.

 

[GreenJelly]

I will start giving 1 sentence statements... Ill choose from the following statements... I beleive they will be good responses to every question asked, and in no way can someone argue or dispute my statements. They may be boring, but at least I will make everyone happy.

"Yes I like that"
"No dont do that"
"I like B&W's"
"Well then stop farting"
"My favorite headphones are Gredo's"
"Yes I agree with the above statement"
"Thats not right"
"You are mis-informed"
"Bose are not good speakers"
"Good Power Sources are a must"
"I can not answer that because it would require to many words"
"Dont buy expensive cables."
"Panasonic Plasma TV's seem to be the Best TV's available"
"Buy 2 great speakers instead of 6 or more bad speakers"
"Generally speaking, the majority of people here have speakers, and recommend speakers where quality is discussed."
"High sound volumes are assumed."
"That is really cool"
"In most cases 7.1 Surround Sound should only be used in very large rooms."

 

[Nick250]

To claim I am spreading "False information" with out a single case of the above actions occurring is really a shame. The last and few times that I know I had made a mistake, and spread false information; I ended up researching the topic and finding that I was wrong. I also apologized.
There is NOTHING more I can possibly do.

I would suggest there is something you can do and that is that there is good information in the posts directed to you in this thread.

IMO the posts of Jaxvon and the one below are pretty much on target. If you are willing to stand back, and be open to the notion that there might be some good and useful information in them, then that will help moves things along in a non antagonistic way I would think.

Nick

I suspect people are on edge because you are wandering from thread to thread saying a lot of big things with a lot of false information or faulty assumptions. You also make big, long and confusing posts.

 

[GreenJelly]

You know, I am here to help... If I am going to get **** on for doing so, I will simply go to a different forum. Their is allot of Ego around here.

 

[emorphien]

You know, I am here to help... If I am going to get **** on for doing so, I will simply go to a different forum. Their is allot of Ego around here.

Seriously, everyone appreciates help when it's given and based on reliable and factual information. But you've been slinging around some big, strange opinions on things based on what seems to be misinformation if not something else.

 

[majorloser]

Please don't let this place turn into AVS. We don't need that kind of crap here. Lets keep it civil

We try

Now, to everybody else: Are we done? Can we go back to headphones?

(I see the chicklets are working again)

 

[Tom Andry]

Green, the only person on edge around here is you from what I've seen. You're often wrong, defensive, and insulting. And I've had enough. Take a vacation, read up on some of our tech articles, and install a spell checker. We'll see you again next year. Oh, and "threatening" to go to another forum is not a threat. FYI.

 

[Audioholics]

Holy cow - why did it take so long to ban this moron? I am converting this to a permanent ban.

 

[HiJon89]

For HT/Gaming the consensus on most headphone forums seems to be that the HD555's are the best. For music, it's mostly preference so try out different brands/models and see which you like best.

 

[Ampdog]

Although Owasse appears to have received the information he needed and this thread is then theoretically at an end, I would like to add something (belated!) regarding directionality of low frequencies.

We know that in rooms there will be standing waves at low frequencies, which will also influence directionality. One must also remember that this is a function of the wavelength. I pick up that it is generally not thought that significant stereo information will exist below 200 Hz (half wavelength = 2,5 ft), though that appears to be a bit high - but in rooms standing waves will begin to dominate.

With headphones it is different because the ears do not have to "discriminate" between two signals for loudness. However, the microphones still had to do this. I have specifically listened at live concerts and to an organ, and cannot find a directional sense below about 200 Hz - but a lot depends on the venue. Perhaps some comment on this with particular regard to headphones would be interesting, if that is not pushing this thread too far.