HDMI: pass through, repeater, switcher?

D

davidbr55

Audioholic Intern
Ok, can someone explain in simple terms what is the difference between HDMI pass through, HDMI repeater, and HDMI switcher?

Further, is it better to have a HDMI 1.2 repeater or a HDMI 1.3 pass through?

Thanks,
David
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
HDMI repeater passes audio, HDMI switcher doesn't, HDMI passthrough is where the signal isn't touched, it's just passed straight through the reciever. As far as ver. 1.2 repeater or 1.3 passthrough, it really doesn't make a difference.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
HDMI 1.2 repeating and HDMI 1.3 pass thru aren't better or worse than one another, they are just different. Look at it this way. Different HDMI versions allow additional material through the wire. The higher versions allow for more flexibility. The only point I would see in HDMI 1.3 pass thru is if you had an HDMI 1.3 source and HDMI 1.3 display that supported Deep Color (which is unlikely). I will admit, I don't know if there is an HDMI 1.3 display available that supports Deep Color and I am farely certain there is no consumer media that is Deep Color ready.

HDMI 1.1 allows up to 5.1 channels of linear PCM to be passed over HDMI along with legacy Dolby Digital and DTS formats. HDMI 1.2 adds DSD streaming ability and 7.1 LPCM I believe. HDMI 1.3 allows bitstreaming of HD audio formats such as DTS-HD and Dolby Digital TrueHD. These audio formats are only available on Blu-ray and the now defunct HD DVD.

If you get an HDMI 1.3 pass-thru receiver you won't get the benefit of HD audio in any way, because the signal just passes through the receiver to the display (which won't be able to utilize the HD audio it is receiving).

If you get an HDMI 1.2 repeating receiver you can have the Blu-ray player decode the bitstream audio internally and send the receiver an uncompressed multichannel PCM signal over HDMI (there is no audio quality loss by doing it this way). If you had an HDMI 1.3 Blu-ray player (other than the PS3) and a HDMI 1.3 repeating receiver, you could send bitstream HD audio (Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD) to the receiver over HDMI and all decoding processes would occur there.

The argument for owning an HDMI 1.3 repeating receiver is this. First, it shows on the display of the receiver that the HD audio format is being decoded. This gives users the piece of mind that they are getting HD audio and they can show all their friends the new TrueHD logos that light up on the display "Woopie!":D. Second, having a receiver with HDMI 1.3 repeating architecture insures that the owner will be able to get the HD audio from Blu-ray if and when Blu-ray players no longer have the decoders built in. This could apply if your current Blu-ray player decides to take a dive and you have to replace it. If the new Blu-ray player you get to replace it does not have internal decoders and you have an HDMI 1.2 repeating receiver you can't utilize the HD audio formats.

Argument for the HDMI 1.2 repeating, or simply using LPCM instead of HD audio bitstreams. Blu-ray players have interactive features and some of them can be used during movie playback. If you are watching a Blu-ray movie and you decide to access the menu to watch commentary while still playing the feature film you can get both audio tracks to run at once. The audio tracks include, the movie itself, the commentary, and the menu sounds. If you bitstream the audio to a HDMI 1.3 receiver the additional audio tracks will not be heard, only the one of the feature film. The reason for this is the decoding for simultaneous audio tracks is handled inside the Blu-ray player, it is currently the only way it apparently can be done. If this remains to be the case it's very possible that we may never see a Blu-ray player that can't do internal HD audio decoding.

I hope this answers any past, present, and future questions you might have, and sorry for the long post.:D
 
J

Jeepers

Full Audioholic
). I will admit, I don't know if there is an HDMI 1.3 display available that supports Deep Color and I am farely certain there is no consumer media that is Deep Color ready.


The Pioneer 8G TV's support Deep color.
 
J

Jeepers

Full Audioholic
Hey OP, do you have a top end Pioneer Plasma TV?:D
I do have a Pioneer Plasma but in all honesty, I doubt that the current Pioneer plasma TV's support Deep Color. I was too quick in my previous reply.
 
J

Jeepers

Full Audioholic
I do have a Pioneer Plasma but in all honesty, I doubt that the current Pioneer plasma TV's support Deep Color. I was too quick in my previous reply.

Today I was looking up some HDMI stuff in my TV's manual and my Pioneer's 8G does support Deep Color... at least according to the manual. I've got the 50" 768P Elite.
 
C

cmk

Audiophyte
Great Information

Great information in this Forum.

I have been very confused about the whole HDMI Switching/Repeating issue for a while now and I think this actually might clear things up.

It's so difficult going into retail outlets without the correct information

I have a Panasonic TH-50PZ800 that is going to be used primarily to display DVD/Blue Ray/Games/Audio from a PS3. My understanding now is that I should be looking for a receiver with HDMI Repeating capability.

As long as their are multiple HDMI ports I should be good to hook up additional devices as well

Correct?

Thanks
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
So, if I have, say, the Onkyo HT-S6100 HTIB [http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S6100&class=Systems&p=f] (which is a HDMI v1.3repeating receiver) and a PS3 as the Blue Ray source, need I worry about being able to encode/transmit HD tracks from the BD?

Because when I was reading your post, you said "(other than the PS3)", so I was confused.

Thanks,
Do you have said system?

The PS3 will decode the HD formats for you. You only need a Marantz 4002. FYI The speaker company would be a much better options than an Onkyo HTIB.

Contact Nick51 he owns them and is a stand up guy.

You only need a 5.1 system don't fall for 7.1 just yet.
 
B

bound4h

Audioholic Intern
What do you mean, The Speaker Company. How much is the Marantz? I'm only looking to spend around $500-600. 5.1 is fine if I can get quality speakers and AVR.

Mike
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
What do you mean, The Speaker Company. How much is the Marantz? I'm only looking to spend around $500-600. 5.1 is fine if I can get quality speakers and AVR.

Mike
You can do much better than the Onkyo HTIB option at 600 dollars.

http://www.thespeakercompany.com/

Look at their bookshelves. They got great LRC packages well in your budget.

Toss in a Dayton sub or one of their little subs and you got a nice system.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR4002/Marantz/SR4002-receiver-80w-x-7ch-HDMI-home-theater-surround/1.html

While you could get that on your budget It would leave you around 300 for speakers. This is a bad deal IMO. Now HDMI is nice and convenient, but honestly a well built non hdmi based system is gonna sound a lot better than a poorly built hdmi based system.

So on your budget I must suggest you get a 5.1 receiver. Usually you can find a great deal for around 100 dollars. That would leave you 400-500 for speakers. With that you can get the LCR3 and pair it with a couple nice sattelites and a sub. The speaker company will pay for shipping both ways if you decide you don't like there speakers. So it's a no brainer to give em a chance. They are a reputable company with a lot of happy customers from this site. Many like yourself on a tight budget wanting the best they could get.

I know we all want the nicest bells and whistles, but remember its not the bells and whistles that make a great bike. It's how well it rides. The same thing applies to audio. Gimmicks don't make great sound. Speakers do. And real speakers not the gimmicky junk Bose and other companies market as great speakers. I can never suggest a HTIB to anyone because the speakers in them are usually pure junk. Onkyo makes great receivers, but their speakers just aren't good enough for the price.

Get the TSC speakers and put them with that 100 dollar receiver they make.
 
Patrick_Wolf

Patrick_Wolf

Audioholic
HDMI 1.1 allows up to 5.1 channels of linear PCM to be passed over HDMI along with legacy Dolby Digital and DTS formats. HDMI 1.2 adds DSD streaming ability and 7.1 LPCM I believe. HDMI 1.3 allows bitstreaming of HD audio formats such as DTS-HD and Dolby Digital TrueHD. These audio formats are only available on Blu-ray and the now defunct HD DVD.
According to Wiki HDMI 1.0/1.1 supports 8 channel LPCM:

HDMI 1.0 was released December 9, 2002 and is a single cable digital audio/video connector interface with a maximum TMDS bandwidth of 4.9 Gbit/s. It supports up to 3.96 Gbit/s of video bandwidth (1080p60 Hz or UXGA) and 8 channel LPCM/192 kHz/24-bit audio.
Which is evident by the SR4002 having HDMI v1.3a Switching/ v1.1 Repeating and boasts Multi-channel (7.1) LPCM via HDMI capability.

So, if I have, say, the Onkyo HT-S6100 HTIB [http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S6100&class=Systems&p=f] (which is a HDMI v1.3repeating receiver) and a PS3 as the Blue Ray source, need I worry about being able to encode/transmit HD tracks from the BD?

Because when I was reading your post, you said "(other than the PS3)", so I was confused.

Thanks,
He was saying that an HDMI 1.3 BD Player that can decode the HD formats can usually (or always?) be set to output bitstream instead (so the receiver does the decoding, if available). The PS3 however, cannot bitstream the HD formats due to a hardware issue. It can only decode them, and send the data out as LPCM (which still gives you HD audio). Furthermore, if newer revisions of the PS3 are released in the future, the ability to bitstream HD formats may be added.
 
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B

bound4h

Audioholic Intern
Thanks, Patrick, for the explanation.

lsiberian, thank you as well for the adivce.

Might I also add what I have now? As it stands, I have a decent setup that I am in love with, just wanted the surround and HD Audio from blu ray.

I have a Denon AVR-4802R (don't make them anymore, but paid $1800 about 4 yrs ago) and a pair of B&W 601 Series 3 bookshelfs. I am missing the sub, but have lived without it. So, while I do enjoy what I have, albeit I am not taking advantage of the AVR's full digital processing potential, I just wasn't sure how much better the quality could get with the TrueHD, etc. The 4802 is a monster, but is non-HDMI as you mentioned.

Any thoughts?

Mike
 
Patrick_Wolf

Patrick_Wolf

Audioholic
I haven't heard the new HD formats (lossless audio) before, which is one of the reasons I'm here to get advice on new speakers/sub and 1st AVR to take advantage of them.

No idea how big of an improvement there is, but only one way to find out.

I'm not the most experienced person to give advice on your situation, but I found this article very helpful when i was 1st learning this stuff. Albeit I had to read it a few times to soak it all in.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1064
 
B

bound4h

Audioholic Intern
lsiberian (or anyone browsing this thread),

Any suggestions regarding going HD or just adding on to what I have with my non-HDMI receiver?

Thanks,

Mike
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks, Patrick, for the explanation.

lsiberian, thank you as well for the adivce.

Might I also add what I have now? As it stands, I have a decent setup that I am in love with, just wanted the surround and HD Audio from blu ray.

I have a Denon AVR-4802R (don't make them anymore, but paid $1800 about 4 yrs ago) and a pair of B&W 601 Series 3 bookshelfs. I am missing the sub, but have lived without it. So, while I do enjoy what I have, albeit I am not taking advantage of the AVR's full digital processing potential, I just wasn't sure how much better the quality could get with the TrueHD, etc. The 4802 is a monster, but is non-HDMI as you mentioned.

Any thoughts?

Mike
In regards to your receiver. You can get True HD by simply using analog outputs. IOTW get a blu-ray with analog outputs and run them to the receivers inputs. Considering the quality of your receiver I would certainly do this.

To get better sound you need to take these steps

First step up is to get a sub.

Next step get some surrounds

3rd step get a center

4th upgrade receiver if necessary.

IOTW at this time a receiver upgrade would be ill advised.
 
B

bound4h

Audioholic Intern
lsiberian,

I think I am going to take your advice.

Does the PS3 output analog multi-channel? I also have Panasonic's blu ray player (DMP-BD35K) but I don't think it outputs the multi channel analog.

Mike
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
lsiberian,

I think I am going to take your advice.

Does the PS3 output analog multi-channel? I also have Panasonic's blu ray player (DMP-BD35K) but I don't think it outputs the multi channel analog.

Mike
No it doesn't. And since you already have a blu-ray player I suggest you not worry about it to much. Focus on upgrading your speakers for now. Downmixing with better speakers is better than direct with bad ones.

Unless you can sell the player and get one with analog outs. :)

If you want a game system just get an xbox 360. They are pretty awesome.

FYI many believe that there is no audible difference between HD audio and dolby digital. Their is a belief that the differences are due to higher recording standards being used for HD audio.
 
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