Hdmi fun stuff

[Teetertotter?]

One's analysis for HDMI cables: What Is a Fiber Optic HDMI Cable and Is It Worth Getting?

 

[TLS Guy]

I think that the scope of your experience vs the testing by the AV/cabling industry has a wide gulf between them. They have the HDMI Consortium with all of its warts and allowances, but they also need to make sure some of what they say is true, or the whole industry behind accessories sales and the installation/custom integration channel would wake them up with a gloved hand over their collective mouths, to make them understand that we will not stand for problems with cables just so they can satisfy the demands of idiots who trowel crap out for the mass audience.

I have spoken with people who work for cable/accessory brands who actually use engineers to design the cables and other accessories for making HDMI send signals over varying distances- have you? I have contacted Ruipro a few times and it took more time than expected to receive answers and to be honest, not using wholesale distribution tells me one thing- they want to stay small. They also don't want a retail dealer network- I asked who sells their products and was told that I can buy them online- not gonna happen when customers can buy them from the same sources and one area where a CI contractor/dealer can make money is by selling parts they trust- if I install equipment for someone and they provide the parts, do you really think I, or anyone in this business, will replace them without charging for the labor?

HDMI has been enough of a problem through the time it has existed and I have posted my thoughts many times- a different system should have been developed and the HDMI board failures that have been seen, along with the cost to repair or replace equipment is a good example. Then, there are the cables that stopped providing video unexpectedly- how many threads and posts do we need to see online about seeing intermittent video, pink screens, green stripes, etc?

HDMI was intended for 6' maximum distance, connected once and left alone forever. It's incredibly stupid to believe that would work on a large scale and completely ignores the way people connect equipment throughout their homes.

They could have asked the industry that uses and installs AV, but that would mean admitting they don't know everything.

IMO, 30 feet seems to be an arbitrary distance- why release those cables at all if that's the maximum?

The real issue has been draconian DRM. As audio and video have improved DRM has got exponentially more complex with time. This has resulted in continuous and increasingly rapid frequency of handshakes.

Understanding conduction in copper wire and the likelihood of reflections, it makes me think that copper is a totally unsuitable medium for AV transmission with this onerous DRM, unless the distance is very short. Light is a far better medium. Photons are far more reliable than electrons for this purpose.

So, I am going to advise that for other then very short distances, optical cables are preferred and actually likely mandatory. It is much better to accept and make use of nature's laws rather then fight them.

 

[moreira85]

That could be true- the easiest (usually) way to test this is by moving a source device to the TV and making sure the source and TV work as they should- about 15 years ago, it wasn't uncommon to see symptoms similar to yours when some brands of DVD players were connected to certain brands of TVs, through a particular brand of AVR- I also saw cables of a few brands that would unexpectedly fail and the screen would be pink. Replacement of the cables took care of the problem and in the process, a lot of installers and companies lost money- why should the customer pay for it if the system was only a few months old and nothing had been damaged?

That ls what I did connected the source to the tv w just one 6 foot hdmi cables and no problem.
so next I’m taking off the wall plates and will just run one continuous cable from AVR through wall to tv.

 

[TLS Guy]

That ls what I did connected the source to the tv w just one 6 foot hdmi cables and no problem.
so next I’m taking off the wall plates and will just run one continuous cable from AVR through wall to tv.

Make sure the video goes via optical cable and that will be the end of your problems for sure, now and as long as there is HDMI.

 

[moreira85]

Make sure the video goes via optical cable and that will be the end of your problems for sure, now and as long as there is HDMI.

Optical? Care to elaborate on this?

 

[moreira85]

Optical? Care to elaborate on this?

Oh I see what you are saying a fiber optic hdmi cable. Thank you

 

[highfigh]

That ls what I did connected the source to the tv w just one 6 foot hdmi cables and no problem.
so next I’m taking off the wall plates and will just run one continuous cable from AVR through wall to tv.

If possible, use some kind of conduit- most AV is run through'Smurf Tube', but the big box stores usually stop the size at 1-1/2"- if you can find the orange conduit, that goes to larger sizes and th at makes feeding cables much easier.

 

[highfigh]

The real issue has been draconian DRM. As audio and video have improved DRM has got exponentially more complex with time. This has resulted in continuous and increasingly rapid frequency of handshakes.

Understanding conduction in copper wire and the likelihood of reflections, it makes me think that copper is a totally unsuitable medium for AV transmission with this onerous DRM, unless the distance is very short. Light is a far better medium. Photons are far more reliable than electrons for this purpose.

So, I am going to advise that for other then very short distances, optical cables are preferred and actually likely mandatory. It is much better to accept and make use of nature's laws rather then fight them.

DRM is the reason HDMI exists- to prevent people copying Hollyweird's precious crap, which wouldn't be copied one at a time, anyway.

"Totally unsuitable? It handles gigahertz and has for a long time- how is that 'unsuitable'?

 

[everettT]

DRM is the reason HDMI exists- to prevent people copying Hollyweird's precious crap, which wouldn't be copied one at a time, anyway.

"Totally unsuitable? It handles gigahertz and has for a long time- how is that 'unsuitable'?

Meanwhile DRM has stopped nothing from being ripped.

 

[TLS Guy]

Meanwhile DRM has stopped nothing from being ripped.

I think that is true, but I think the quantity and quality of what is ripped is down. Current DRM is certainly a big obstacle to pirates, but I agree not insurmountable to a degree. However, it certainly has created headaches for the rest of us.

 

[TLS Guy]

DRM is the reason HDMI exists- to prevent people copying Hollyweird's precious crap, which wouldn't be copied one at a time, anyway.

"Totally unsuitable? It handles gigahertz and has for a long time- how is that 'unsuitable'?

Well it is certainly not optimal, and makes error correction work overtime. Light is a far better medium to transfer the data rates we are talking about, than electons bumping into each other down wire. This is all about physics. That would dictate that glass fiber is much better than copper at transmitting the data rates we are talking about with 4K and 8K HDMI and probably 2K signals as well.

So do your customers a favor and install hybrid, or totally fiber HDMI cables for the longer runs.

 

[everettT]

I think that is true, but I think the quantity and quality of what is ripped is down. Current DRM is certainly a big obstacle to pirates, but I agree not insurmountable to a degree. However, it certainly has created headaches for the rest of us.

You'd be surprised. Full 4k rips with complete audio packages are still being done at sites like thepiratebay.org. Their site gets shut down and it pops back up within hours. It's just like when Sony tries to shut down people with custom firmware for their PlayStation products, there is always someone who breaks their security.

The more security and headaches they hit us with, someone breaks it.

 

[TLS Guy]

Oh I see what you are saying a fiber optic hdmi cable. Thank you

You won't go wrong with that.

Oh I see what you are saying a fiber optic hdmi cable. Thank you

This is the conduit Highfigh is talking about.

If you have more cables this is the way to go.

However, the "golden rule" is to never run any inwall AV cable that is not in conduit. NEVER

 

[highfigh]

Well it is certainly not optimal, and makes error correction work overtime. Light is a far better medium to transfer the data rates we are talking about, than electons bumping into each other down wire. This is all about physics. That would dictate that glass fiber is much better than copper at transmitting the data rates we are talking about with 4K and 8K HDMI and probably 2K signals as well.

So do your customers a favor and install hybrid, or totally fiber HDMI cables for the longer runs.

Thanks for trying to dumb it down for me but glass fiber needs special treatment if custom lengths are needed- there's no point in coiling the excess tightly and that, alone, causes problems because its minimal coil diameter isn't observed. Who's installing it? Do they know how to do it properly, or will they staple it to the bottom of the joists? Don't say it won't happen.

 

[highfigh]

I think that is true, but I think the quantity and quality of what is ripped is down. Current DRM is certainly a big obstacle to pirates, but I agree not insurmountable to a degree. However, it certainly has created headaches for the rest of us.

Big obstacle? I doubt it. Any disc that someone wants to copy is saved to a computer, stripped of DRM and sent to other computers, so each can make several copies at the same time.

Anything that's designed for security needs to be tested and made to fail.

 

[highfigh]

Meanwhile DRM has stopped nothing from being ripped.

That's exactly my point. The only thing it was stopped is reliable communication.