Major Problems with HDMI to DVI signally .. so no Upscaling to 720p
I have posted this problem on two other threads but to date NOT ONE single reply .. even tho Clint and Gene were invited to contribute their wealth of knowledge ... so I have taken the liberty of posting here too as there must be thousands of audiohlics with problem or yet to discover it, where they have DVI ported display devices......
==========================================================
POST 1:
Purchased BenQ PE8700+ 12 months ago. Proprietary delinterlace and scaler were hopeless esp on signals received thru DVI input. eg 1080i->540p and other lower resolutions the aspect ratio is impossible to get right... ssems as tho it is "dropping" vertical lines while maintaining width.. Also it doesnt seem to have any resizing to fill "full screen". Digital Cable signals even worse ... 30% compressed width but full height???? etc etc So gave up on the BenQ internal video processing
So 6 months ago after throrough reading the Yammie 2600 manual and discusing with Yammie customer support purchased the 260 to do all the video processing and just put native 720p into the 8700+. Also hoping the reduced load on the processor will stop fast motion "jaggies".
Found out much later that HDMI source input DOESNT UPSCALE (Shame!) 2700 same! So I have been attempting to upgrade just he analog sources input to the 2600 and using the HDMI MONITOR OUT to the DVI-I port of a BenQ PE8700+ 720p DLP Projector. But the ONLY options I get on the GUI to output are "Through" (no upscaling) and 576p (I'm running PAL so it the equivalent of your 480p).
Yamaha told me forcefully 6 months ago that it was the BenQ that needed an firmware update to its EDID table which is supposed to send back on DVI pin 7the DDC signal with Basic EDID and Extended EDID the display capabilty of the projector. It appeared at first that he BenQ had been programmed to send 576p (or 480p) whereas is should have been sending "I am a 720p"! BenQ claim there is no firmware upgrade for this and they are "sure" the EDID table would be correct (sure???? Yeah).
Later BenQ told me that the DVI port was NEVER fully implemented ... was just VESA standard for PC connection but not CE Standard for Broadcast Video. (Great they didnt tell me before I bought the BenQ one year ago .. or at least some time in the last year of constant hassling with them about various issues including poor de-interlacing and scaling by their onboard proprietary processor esp via DVI). Back to the Yammie ..
Earlier tonite I was reading a "white paper" on the incompatibity of PC based Vesa DDC and TV/Video based CE EDID .. and then I read a posting elsewhere on Audioholics of a problem which looked very much the same a mine. It quoted Yammie engineers allegedly confirming that there was an "undershoot" fault on the DDC line on all 2600s manufactures before April 2006 and there may be a Yammie fix for this (unclear).
Anyone know about this?
But as of the last post their 6 months ago there was no solution.
Oh, by the way I got a similar result inputting both 2700/2600 to a Sharp XVZ2000 DVI port recently but in that case (worse) I could not even select 576p (480p) and the only choice was "Through". However the white paper suggested that same EDID tables (or is it HDMI senders?) may default to 576p (480p) where there is "no handshaking at all", but I tend to think in such as case the Yammie would just say HDMI error and/or HDCP error and give no display ???? .
Has anyone had this type of Problem Upscaling Yammie HDMI-> Projector DVI .. and solved it?
If NOT, Clint/Gene do you have any info on this incompatibility. I haven't yet seen a Review on the 2700, and I tried one last week into the BenQ DVI port and the Sharp DVI port in an attempt to sort out this problem but the results was identical to the 2600 ... that is it cant get upscaling above 576p (480p) (because 720p and 1080i are greyed out on the Yammie GUI)
Desparate Now.
P.G
=========================================================
POST2:
Here is an update on my posting earlier today.....
Well how is this for BAD news and BAD customer service from the CE industry ... gross customer neglect, in fact!
I managed to chase up with the Yamie 2700 Specialist Support this "supposed" problem of "undershooting" on the DDC line of the HDMI interface of the 2700/2600. Earlier this year they had logged with the Japan factory the problem of the inability to upscale in the GUI to 720p and 1080i for HDMI to DVI connections in the case of the VAST MAJORITY of display devices INCLUDING their own range of Yammie Plasma panels with DVI-D inputs which they were still supplying until 12-18months ago.
HE CONFIRMED THAT THE UNFORESEEN PROBLEM WAS THAT THE EXTENDED EDID DATA IN THE DVI (WHICH IS BASED ON VESA STANDARD FOR PC IS DIFFERENT TO THAT FOR CE WHICH THE HDMI USES) .... SO HDMI IS NOT 100% BACKWARD COMPATIBLE WITH DVI. I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.
Japan has refused to do anything about changing their software (for GUI) to accommodate users worldwide who have DVI ported displays as they consider it is a DVI problem not within the scope of the HDMI standards, even though they initially advertised and promoted the 2600 as DVI backward compatible.
In Feb 2006 the factory issue a bulletin making their network aware of this problem and making it clear that they will not provide any solution to this problem.
I asked the Yammie guy why couldnt they provide a manual intervention as was suggested in one industry white paper about 12 months ago (i.e. for customers to override and force an output resolution eg 720p out of the 2700/2600 much like we all used to do with PC Video card resolutions and where the Monitor could not support the setting we just went back and selected a lower setting). He replied that he was in no doubt Japan could do it if they wished and provide a firmware upgraded to load it, but he says
Japan has the view that there is not enough customer demand/pressure to do this.
C'MON! HOW MANY CUSTOMERS ARE THERE WORLD WIDE THAT HAVE DISPLAYS WITH DVI -INPUT THAT ARE NOT YET READY TO THROW AWAY DISPLAYS THEY HAVE PURCHASED AND ARE ABOUT TO PURCHASE A 2700 OR 2600 OR A MARANTZ OR PIONEER OR DENON ETC FOR THAT MATTER.
MAYBE EVEN HDMI STANDRADS HAVE LOCKED US IN TOO MUCH ... WHY SHOULDN'T THAT STANDARD PROVIDE A FAILSAFE (OVERRIDE) FOR THIS TYPE OF PROBLEM.
FELLOW AUDIOHOLIUCS AND THE MILLIONS OF OTHERS OUT THERE NEED TO PUT PRESSURE ON THE HDMI STANDARDS CORP AND EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS TO NOT LEAVE US IN THE IN THE COLD AND HIGH AND DRY!
CLINT/GENE HOW CAN SE GET A BETTER DEAL FROM THE INDUSTRY ON THIS DISGRACEFUL SITUATION?
Hope us consumers have some power to get a fair deal.
What say you?
PG.
========================================================
Hoping for some serious helpful replies by posting in this thread!
