HDMI 2.1 Everything you Need to Know for Future Proofing Your System

gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
This thread is reserved for a technical discussion regarding HDMI 2.1 based on our 3-part Youtube interview series with Sound United and our editorial summarizing the important information to guide you on how to future proof your system for years to come.

Perhaps one of the coolest features for HDMI 2.1 is:
HDMI 2.1 promises an improved audio experience and simplified system connectivity via a feature called eARC. Imagine being able to plug any source into your display and it sending high res audio to your AVR? That's cool.

The Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable is the only way to ensure all the features and capabilities of the HDMI 2.1 Specification are delivered from a source device to a display. Ensuring Ultra High Speed HDMI cables are compliant with the HDMI 2.1 Specification is essential to the HDMI ecosystem. The HDMI Forum’s mandatory ATC-only certification requirements are designed to ensure cables are compliant with the HDMI 2.1 Specification. And the anti-counterfeit Ultra High Speed HDMI Certification Label and its scanning results provide a visible verification of certification that a product meets the HDMI Forum’s requirements.
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Read: HDMI 2.1 Definitive Guide to the Next Generation
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Dude the only thing I've seen filmed at 120 frames per second rendered at 60 on 4k was that Will Smith movie Gemini man.

Honestly I wasn't feeling it I had to switch it out for the blue ray with the slower frames version

It made every thing so detailed in every background that it was actually distracting to the eye

Not to mention it made you feel like you were on the set and not immersed in the story happening somewhere in life

And The soap bubble effect was almost unbearable

Plus the action kind off felt like you were in a video game

Now in video games I can see the potential I really hope this doesn't take off at least not for awhile

Not just with the way movies look but also I really don't want to switch out my cables and some of my gear Lol

Too lazy
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Unless 2.1 standardizes the HDMI-CEC feature set and name across all device manufacturers, it doesn't by the way, I really don't care about the rest. Sure, I'll end up with new gear in a few years and have to throw some old HDMI cables into a tub with even older component, S-Video, optical, coaxial and analog cables, but I'm not looking forward to it.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
That is interesting, but will increase the need for active cables, especially hybrid ones, I think.

So will that exclude those cables being certified again because they draw more from the HDMI port than spec? With the added complication I suspect power draw will be part of the spec. As I see it the best way to handle this would be to make an external power supply part of the spec.
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
Unless 2.1 standardizes the HDMI-CEC feature set and name across all device manufacturers, it doesn't by the way, I really don't care about the rest. Sure, I'll end up with new gear in a few years and have to throw some old HDMI cables into a tub with even older component, S-Video, optical, coaxial and analog cables, but I'm not looking forward to it.
HDMI.org supposedly standardized CEC with CEC Extensions. Whether it made it into the final ratified option sets of HDMI 2.1 I haven't bothered to check as I don't really care about CEC. Ratified or not it will take a long time before issues are resolved across the board. I'll continue to use my Harmony remotes because they do all that I need them to do for single remote control of both of my HTS's.
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
That is interesting, but will increase the need for active cables, especially hybrid ones, I think.

So will that exclude those cables being certified again because they draw more from the HDMI port than spec? With the added complication I suspect power draw will be part of the spec. As I see it the best way to handle this would be to make an external power supply part of the spec.
Reliable power draw from the HDMI port has indeed been an issue for the hybrid cable mfrs. What some in the industry would like to see is the current output of the HDMI ports be increased a bit to give a little "headroom" for fluctuations. 50mA is not a lot of current but with a long distance cable pushing high demand a/v, any minor fluctuations at the input may cause issues. I think that's why Ruipro is supplying voltage inserters with their 8k cables once released. As far as certification goes, there are connectors that are passing CTS but how that translates to the entire cable (connectors and body) for active cables is unclear. And yes, hybrid fiber cables, imo, will the only way to go forward with HDMI 2.1 and beyond (HDMI 2.0 as well for 20' and longer runs).
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Reliable power draw from the HDMI port has indeed been an issue for the hybrid cable mfrs. What some in the industry would like to see is the current output of the HDMI ports be increased a bit to give a little "headroom" for fluctuations. 50mA is not a lot of current but with a long distance cable pushing high demand a/v, any minor fluctuations at the input may cause issues. I think that's why Ruipro is supplying voltage inserters with their 8k cables once released. As far as certification goes, there are connectors that are passing CTS but how that translates to the entire cable (connectors and body) for active cables is unclear. And yes, hybrid fiber cables, imo, will the only way to go forward with HDMI 2.1 and beyond (HDMI 2.0 as well for 20' and longer runs).
My Ruipro cable has been flawless with the Legrand Voltage inserter by the way.
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
My Ruipro cable has been flawless with the Legrand Voltage inserter by the way.
That is good to hear. I'm waiting to test their upgraded 4k cables and later on this summer the 8k cables. I already have a handful of their voltage inserters.
 
G

Gmoney

Audioholic Ninja
That is interesting, but will increase the need for active cables, especially hybrid ones, I think.

So will that exclude those cables being certified again because they draw more from the HDMI port than spec? With the added complication I suspect power draw will be part of the spec. As I see it the best way to handle this would be to make an external power supply part of the spec.
Doc, you Probably already know they gonna stick an extra power supply in a AVR and cutback on the amp power supply. Or a rechargeable battery in the HDMI 2.1 cable that will draw power for keeping the battery charged at the input of a AVR HDMI ports
Doc No disrespect, me Personally? I just buy Yamaha AVR’s. Got best Reliability and They own their Factories.
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
Doc, you Probably already know they gonna stick an extra power supply in a AVR and cutback on the amp power supply. Or a rechargeable battery in the HDMI 2.1 cable that will draw power for keeping the battery charged at the input of a AVR HDMI ports
Doc No disrespect, me Personally? I just buy Yamaha AVR’s. Got best Reliability and They own their Factories.
A rechargeable battery in the HDMI cable? That's funny! . I have Yamaha AVR's for both of my systems so we'll see when the time comes what's needed.
 
D

dmusoke

Audioholic Intern
Well written article, Gene. And very informative. Thanks!
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
Nice article but the information has been around for quite some time now.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I hope eARC doesn't introduce the same long line of issues that ARC has created. I never understood why it seemed like such an erratic concept that ARC wasn't just an available source on the AV receiver. Switch to your local source, pick the ARC input on your receiver, listen to audio, have a good day.

Likewise, I'm still dumbfounded that HDMI hasn't REQUIRED that any surround sources also include a full stereo audio source at the same time. This way multi-zone receivers, and whole house audio systems can distribute audio through a home, or to headphones, or whatever else, while the main surround sound mix is still in place, unchanged. They have 32 channels of audio to work with and fail to require that two of them be used for stereo. This would solve SO many problems when people have different setups in their home that are connected to a single receiver, or to home distribution systems.
 
WookieGR

WookieGR

Full Audioholic
Now, if only all devices offered HDMI 2.1 support. Console/PC > AVR > TV. ENGAGE!
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
I've seen HDMI cable specs at 4K/60Hz. What happens if my TV is 4K with a 120Hz refresh rate?
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
I've seen HDMI cable specs at 4K/60Hz. What happens if my TV is 4K with a 120Hz refresh rate?
Probably nothing. The tv will just handle the signal the best it can. The HDMI inputs only have v1.3 chipsets so you're only capable of the HDMI 1.3 option sets. I wouldn't worry about it.
 
S

SeparatesNooB

Audiophyte
I am just getting back into following on the technical aspects of home theater after taking a very long hiatus.
Has there been any information dropped about when Preamps/Processors will likely be released that will be able to take full advantage of HDMI 2.1? Meaning, be able take advantage of the full 48 Gbps bandwidth.
I know content is going to continue to lag behind, but I am looking to make the jump from a single AVR to seperates. And I don't think I want to make that jump until the preamps are fully HDMI 2.1 capable, as my current AVR provides, at least, satisfactory performance.
I know Marantz and Yamaha have AVRs that should be (or are at least 8k capable) HDMI 2.1 capable, but I am looking specifically at home audio/home theater separates, not AVRs
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
I am just getting back into following on the technical aspects of home theater after taking a very long hiatus.
Has there been any information dropped about when Preamps/Processors will likely be released that will be able to take full advantage of HDMI 2.1? Meaning, be able take advantage of the full 48 Gbps bandwidth.
I know content is going to continue to lag behind, but I am looking to make the jump from a single AVR to seperates. And I don't think I want to make that jump until the preamps are fully HDMI 2.1 capable, as my current AVR provides, at least, satisfactory performance.
I know Marantz and Yamaha have AVRs that should be (or are at least 8k capable) HDMI 2.1 capable, but I am looking specifically at home audio/home theater separates, not AVRs
Probably next year we'll start seeing separates that have some or all of the HDMI 2.1 options sets available. It will be frustrating though because for full compatibility all of your devices will need to support the same HDMI 2.1 option sets. HDMI 2.1 is a set of options sets, not mandated standards, so the device mfr doesn't have to offer all of them to claim HDMI 2.1. However, they do have to list which options sets are currently available on their device to claim HDMI 2.1 compatibility so at least there's a way to see what is offered and it is will work in your planned setup.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I am just getting back into following on the technical aspects of home theater after taking a very long hiatus.
Has there been any information dropped about when Preamps/Processors will likely be released that will be able to take full advantage of HDMI 2.1? Meaning, be able take advantage of the full 48 Gbps bandwidth.
I know content is going to continue to lag behind, but I am looking to make the jump from a single AVR to seperates. And I don't think I want to make that jump until the preamps are fully HDMI 2.1 capable, as my current AVR provides, at least, satisfactory performance.
I know Marantz and Yamaha have AVRs that should be (or are at least 8k capable) HDMI 2.1 capable, but I am looking specifically at home audio/home theater separates, not AVRs
Well, let me begin by saying you can't really future proof. After any purchase some committee will want a new version of something no matter how questionable the benefits.

I bought my first pre/pro in 2006. I am now on my fourth generation of pre/pros in 14 years. So that is about a new version every 4 years or so. Now the law of diminishing returns is operating. The benefits getting less and less able to be discerned. The benefit of going from 2K to 4K has been barely significant. It is hard to see a significant difference from 2K to 4K. That is with the best 4K OLED out there. That is only marginally better then my two older plasma screens. Now my last generation of pre/pros are still giving great service in two other systems. Atoms has been a benefit, which also ties in with improved up mixers. The latter has been a much greater benefit than 4K. The ARC has been a benefit. It now actually works, and I never used previous versions. It is handy though to use the Neflix and Amazon Prime apps in the TV now it works as intended. I do not use it for anything else though. The downside is that it has made cabling difficult and expensive if HDMI runs are long.

A big issue now is that that with the disruption in trade with China I anticipate far more supply problems. These will increase. I think it will be a long time before the benefits of HDMI 2.1 show up in product. I really don't think 8K will make a difference, 60 f/sec might be marginal.

So if you want to start building out a system, you never will if you wait to future proof. So for the above reasons now is as good a time to start as any.

Now unless your room is very large indeed you only need four Atmos ceiling speakers and not 6. So that means I chose the Marantz AV 7705 and not the Marantz 8805.
My room is 16' X 30' rounded off with 9' ceiling and 7.2.4 is optimal. That is a good unit now. I bought it about a year ago, but put it in service mid October last year. It was buggy at first, but after an avalanche of firmware updates, which still continue, is is a good functioning unit now. Things are now so complicated you probably should not be the first to jump in. It is actually no bad to be a little behind the "bleeding edge."

The next issue that concerns me is that you seem pretty new to this, and what you propose is a complex engineering undertaking, to make it all work really nicely.

So you you are talking at least 11 channels of power amplification in addition to two subs. That is a lot. I don't think using amps with a lot of channels gets you much further ahead than using an AVR. So I recommend 2 channel and may be 3 channel power amps.

Now all this requires huge attention to powering. For one thing I can assure you that number of amps requires magnetic shunt breakers, or your breakers will trip with every switch on. You must pay huge attention to your system ground plane and layout. This is because you have to take obsessional care to keep the noise floor down with that many channels, or you will not have a good experience. That means thought must be given to layout in a system that complex, and you must be able to get behind it.

To put this together will require careful thought and design, and the expenditure of substantial funds.

Lastly keep in mind that if you are not prepared to "pay the piper" so to speak, then remember a simpler system built with higher quality components will always beat a more complex one built with lower quality components.

If you want to know what a power amp case looks like for a 7.4.2 system this is it.



Hidden in the walls is 600 ft of speaker cable and 150 ft of HDMI, Ethernet and RGB cable for a total of 750 ft. of cabling. It all in conduit so it can be changed. You must put all in wall AV cabling in conduit, no exceptions.

Then it looks neat and tidy.





So you can certainly do what you want. Careful planning and costing of the project will avoid disappointment.
 
S

SeparatesNooB

Audiophyte
Thank you for the thorough response @TLS Guy, definitely very detailed and a number of things I had definitely not thought of.

I suppose "future proof" was a bit imprecise. I guess I was more thinking of things like higher refresh rate (& frame rate) capabilities, even at 4k resolution, wider color gamut support (capability), eARC, and the ability to support 8K just so that door could be open to me with necessarily having to go up to another preamp/pro.
But like you said, you have tended to "buy-up" every 4 years or so, so maybe there is no time like the present.
And I tend to agree with you on the bleeding edge stuff; I think @Otto Pylot probably phrased it better, I was more interested in the features as opposed to just being able to say I have HDMI 2.1 components

Definitely made some very good points. I know a lot of these projects start out at "X" budget and before you know it you are at X*5 (or whatever multiplier)
I was also eyeing the exact Marantz you were (7705), I figured the 8805 was a but much.
The Anthem AVM60 also caught my eye
 

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