HDMI 2.1 Chipset Bug in AV Receivers Causing Gaming Problems

Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Audioholic Intern
This has been an issue for years as there is no standard for HDMI across all devices. I actually have this same type of issue on the Marantz 4k version of the receiver thats 3 years old, its very frustrating. I get the "This resolution is not supported" blank screen on the samsung tv after changing channels on the direct tv. Only solution I have found is to turn off the Marantz and then turn back on and the problem stops. Direct tv and Marantz dont work well together it seems.
HDMI option sets are standardized. However, the implementation of those standards (think CEC) is where the problems arise. A bug in the chipsets certainly doesn't help the situation.
 
J

Jackofnotrades

Audiophyte
I m not sure how important this is :p but Heise.de is by no means an "audio site". It is a general "tech" site for IT-professionells (and wannabees),
at least that is what they consider themselves and have several sections (c´t made the test, you have also a mac-site and heise is the main part).
That said; Sound United is behind both Denon & Marantz brands, is that correct?
 
jliedeka

jliedeka

Audioholic General
I just replaced my AVR with a Denon. I'm glad that at least I didn't overspend this time. My plan was to get a new TV next year but I'm probably going to wait until at least 2022 now. Not only do I hope the HDMI situation will settle down but there are some promising display technologies like dual cell and QD OLED that need time to become fully baked.

Jim
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I was going to get a TV in late 2021 as well but also thinking sometime 2022 now. I can get by watching NHL on 65in for a couple more years... LOL :)
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Audioholic Intern
Videos like these are showing 4K 120hz HDR material produced by graphics cards playing okay via these AVRs...



It maybe suggests that the issue isn’t perhaps as bad as first feared, and maybe more specifically a problem for the new Xbox consoles?

Desk
Yep. And that's the problem is that it's hit and miss. It appears that, at least in the screen shot above, that he sits within 15' so that's within the recommended distance for passive cables which means that active cables, in theory, shouldn't have the distance issue.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Chief
All of this is solved with direct connection from the Xbox to the TV and then eARC to the receiver. But then you don’t get what you paid for, an expensive switching AVR
 
M

metalmachine

Audiophyte
All of this is solved with direct connection from the Xbox to the TV and then eARC to the receiver. But then you don’t get what you paid for, an expensive switching AVR
It's not that simple for me..I have a Samsung 65Q90R and there is a huge audio delay issue when it's set to output DD. The video will play before the audio so using eARC workaround is not an option. I have the Denon x3700
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
All of this is solved with direct connection from the Xbox to the TV and then eARC to the receiver. But then you don’t get what you paid for, an expensive switching AVR
This is what I ended up doing for our 4K Roku device. Running it through my admittedly cheap AVR introduced judder on motion scenes that no adjustment would get rid of, but connecting the Roku directly to the TV's input minimized it. ARC feeds the sound back to the AVR. Whatever works.
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Samurai
My Vizio 4K V55" tv is good with 4K and 1080i but anything below sucks on it. On dark Scenes, Horrible like grayed banding issues. For 350 buck tv i've learned to live with it.
 
jliedeka

jliedeka

Audioholic General
The issue with Xbox Series X is the 4k120 is uncompressed and the Panasonic chip only handles 4k120 compressed. I think the HDMI working group deserves some of the blame for having the compressed/uncompressed possibility buried in the spec. I also have to blame the AVR manufacturers for not getting enough info from the console and graphics cards makers before choosing their HDMI chipset.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Spartan
All of this is solved with direct connection from the Xbox to the TV and then eARC to the receiver. But then you don’t get what you paid for, an expensive switching AVR
That is more of a workaround, rather than solving the problem.

And, that puts all of your eggs in the eARC basket, which may work fine, or may not.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Do people think eARC is working a lot better than ARC? Or is it hit and miss with different TVs?
 
T

Topher

Junior Audioholic
My Pioneer SC-1526 crapped out in the spring so I've been using my HK AVR-325 with no HDMI until I can find a replacement. If only there was a way to get audio from a Chromecast to it.
Now there aren't very many AVRs in stock. I guess I'm lucky?
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Chief
My Pioneer SC-1526 crapped out in the spring so I've been using my HK AVR-325 with no HDMI until I can find a replacement. If only there was a way to get audio from a Chromecast to it.
Now there aren't very many AVRs in stock. I guess I'm lucky?
Can you not hook the Chromecast up to the TV and send the audio to the HK via optical cable from the TV? Or, is the TV not equipped to do so?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
My Pioneer SC-1526 crapped out in the spring so I've been using my HK AVR-325 with no HDMI until I can find a replacement. If only there was a way to get audio from a Chromecast to it.
Now there aren't very many AVRs in stock. I guess I'm lucky?
You can still get ChromeCast Audio units on ebay....
 
B

BBF

Enthusiast
Another issue is that this highlights the 2K, 4K and 8K race. In my view we never needed to go over 2K. I absolutely can not tell the difference between 2K and 4K and that is with a top end screen. My two older 2K screens have just as good a picture as my 4K one. I think telling the difference between 2k, 4K and 8K is like trying to tell the difference between 0.1%, 0.05% and 0.025% THD. This has just brooked a boat load of trouble.

This AV technology is in actuality reaching, or at maturity and these "improvements" are now essentially futile and counter productive.

What needs to happen now is a drive to reliability and better ways of doing things. That means active speakers, with DSP corrected time delays, so most will actually hear the dialog, and not have to turn up center channels and ruin the balance. These sort of advances will make a real difference and improve the experience. Whether a screen or AVR is 2k, 4K or 8K is of zero consequence.
You are correct only if people sit at average american household viewing distances from the TV screen.
You are also correct that the Xbox Series X and PS5 will not really be able to output video at 4k120 with high graphics quality settings enabled. They'll be lucky to do 4k60 consistently, so barfing at 4k120 really doesn't matter all that much.

The one thing you forget is that Audioholics readers and high end PC gamers are NOT normal people.

For people that have high end gaming PC's with an nVidia RTX 3080 or 3090 or the upcoming AMD Radeon 6800XT and 6900XT, 4k120 gaming is well within reach. As long as one sits considerably within the critical resolving distance for 1080p for the TV, games in 4K will be noticeably sharper and more detailed.

Heck even with my 50" at 8ft, I can tell if a video on youtube is streaming at 4k30 vs 1080p30. Does it really improve my viewing of enjoyment of youtube videos to watch them in 4k, of course not since the compression is so high and the source material is not super detailed (I'm watching talking heads most of the time with cameras that aren't always focused 100% correctly on their faces.)

But with my existing video card, gaming at 4k60 vs 1080p120, the extra resolution is quite noticeable since the backgrounds are rendered in so much more detail. However, the loss in smoothness when panning or with objects moving by quickly between 120Hz and 60Hz is noticeable too. So 4k120 would be ideal for my gaming wants, so if a $2000 AV Receiver that claims HDMI 2.1 support doesn't work at 4k120, I'd be really, really disappointed and would want my money back.

Note that I sit within 5ft of my 50" HDMI 2.1 OLED TV when gaming.

I agree with you that 8K is really, really bonkers since a person with normal vision (not golden eyes, they can resolve the difference from any viewing distance ;-)) would have to sit so close to the TV to resolve the difference between 4K and 8K it's really impractical.
 

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