HD video formats

[Grador]

Most people are using Handbrake to shrink down the movie so the can either conserve HD space or for use on their portable devices.

I rip all my movies and music full bit rate/depth. So now you have seen this used at least a single time

Storage is DIRT CHEAP.

That's not using H.264 losslessly, you're simply ripping the video that was already endoded with lossy H.264, and not adding further loss by reencoding. A lossless video codec would be something that has bit-perfect pixel information as it comes off the camera, same as FLAC from PCM.

Edit to give reference for the enormity of compression going on: for 1080P video with 32 bit colour depth coming off a camera uncompressed you're talking about around 200 MB/s.

 

[jinjuku]

That's not using H.264 losslessly, you're simply ripping the video that was already endoded with lossy H.264, and not adding further loss by reencoding. A lossless video codec would be something that has bit-perfect pixel information as it comes off the camera, same as FLAC from PCM.

Edit to give reference for the enormity of compression going on: for 1080P video with 32 bit colour depth coming off a camera uncompressed you're talking about around 200 MB/s.

When I rip a BD title (Ironman, Transformers, Tron Legacy) full bore, if it's 'lossy' it's because whatever is on the BD is 'lossy'.

I have no idea what resolution the movie is shot in or what resolution computer rendering is done in. For all I know what is coming off the BD could be 'lossy' compared to the master at the studio.

If you want to go there then CD's (PCM) are most likely 'lossy'. If the engineer recorded in anything higher than 16/44.1 then the PCM on the CD is 'lossy'

H.264 ≠ Lossy. You can INDEED do full bitrate with H.264. Please keep in mind I'm not making a semantics argument.

 

[Grador]

Ok a better example, since you seem to have missed my point. If I burned you a disk of mp3s and you copied them onto your system without further compressing them this would not make the mp3s lossless. This is the exact scenario being described here, H.264 is lossy but you can copy the files from the bluray onto your drive without any additional loss.

My point being there's a difference between a codec being lossless and your rips of a disk being without additional loss. I feel this is important as when most people talk about H.264 in terms of ripping they mean they are reencoding when the term almost never comes up when you're doing a strait rip.

 

[jinjuku]

I didn't miss your point. I was wanting to make sure that people don't equate H.264 with loss.

Just like they shouldn't equate PCM with loss.

 

[avnetguy]

I didn't miss your point. I was wanting to make sure that people don't equate H.264 with loss.

Just like they shouldn't equate PCM with loss.

But why shouldn't they equate H264 with loss, the MPEG4 compression will cause loss and/or artifacts to my knowledge. Now if the bitrate is high enough one typically wouldn't see any of these issues.

Steve

 

[jinjuku]

But why shouldn't they equate H264 with loss, the MPEG4 compression will cause loss and/or artifacts to my knowledge. Now if the bitrate is high enough one typically wouldn't see any of these issues.

Steve

What exactly are you losing? Just answer that question. It's like arguing the sunlight we experience on earth is distorted and we aren't getting the 'real deal'.

I'll agree that it's distorted as it passes through our atmosphere but it is what it is.

When 4K displays come out and they are shooting movies in 8K you still are dealing with 'loss'.

Bottom line is you can rip the H.264 or VC-1 from source at full bit rate (no loss). The line of argument is that you can somehow get better than the disc PQ.

 

[avnetguy]

What exactly are you losing? Just answer that question.

With MPEG4 you are losing the pure uncompressed video information which of course isn't made available to the general public. Who knows, maybe years in the future they'll release fully uncompressed versions of BD movies when we have much better media or internet speeds. Of course that assumes they didn't record it in a compressed format.

Bottom line is you can rip the H.264 or VC-1 from source at full bit rate (no loss). The line of argument is that you can somehow get better than the disc PQ.

I understand your point of view with the above statements now. Yes you get exactly what you copied off the disc, no loss in that transfer if you do not re-encode the video.

Steve