harman kardon vs onkyo???

[schmilnik]

hi, i had i few questions hopeully someone will know. First off who makes better recievers? Second if i were to compare the hk avr335 to the onkyo 603 what are some of the differences and will i notice a difference between the two?
Thanks for any help!

 

[tbewick]

I saw a Harman Kardon AV receiver a while back in What Hi-Fi? and I was impressed by it's appearance. If they're still making them like that then they're the most attractive A/V receivers I've seen.

It would make sense to compare the specifications and use this as a guide to performance. I'm not familiar with either of those models you mentioned but if they're in the same price range then there shouldn't be much difference between the two. For this reason I would put ease of use and features as the most important factors in deciding which one to get.

 

[sokrman14]

Coming from experience with both of those...Onkyo will give you more power, and more features for your money. Also Onkyo is easier to use. Harman Kardon will give you a cleaner, more modern look, and might sound slightly cleaner with more pronounced high frequencies. Both good choices, for me, I like Onkyo more.

 

[deemic]

I was torn between Harmon Kardon and Onkyo when I was shopping for my latest receiver too.

Feature wise you're likely to end up with comparable units. The AVR has a very nice look to it that kind of seperates itself from other receivers IMHO...

The Onkyo's I've auditioned had a solid "feel" to them and I've always thought they've made quality receivers.

But in the end , I purchased the HK. Another poster stated that he would expect more pronounced highs from the HK, but to the contrary, I found mine to produce smooth, balanced treble. The selling point was it's amplifiers dynamic capabilities....

I can't knock Onkyo. If the right deal came along I'd say jump on it, they make good stuff. The HK has served me well though.

 

[sdy284]

Well from glancing @ their back panels, I noticed a few things right away...
The onkyo has 3 component inputs vs HK's 2
The onkyo only has a subwoofer preout vs HK's 7ch preouts
The onkyo has a pair of "B" or "zone 2" which is useful for powering a pair of speakers in a kitchen or patio for example

well thats just some of the stuff thats noticable from looking @ the back of the units

 

[tomd51]

Having owned both an HK 330 and Onkyo 602 at one point in time, I preferred the sound of the Onkyo a bit more than the comparable HK. The Onkyo has a very neutral sound with a solid amplifier section. The HK also had strong amps, regardless of the stated wattage, however, I found that the HK in the same setting/environment seemed to provide a more "warm" sonic signature as opposed to the Onkyo. This is not necessarily a bad thing, it's just something I did not prefer.

As sdy284 pointed out, the HKs are typically more expandable in regards to having the option for outboard amplification with the pre-outs and also seemed to have better bass management features. On the flip side, the Onkyo also had some features the HK did not.

If aesthetics are an issue, the HK is much cleaner looking, the Onkyo is a bit standard in looks (the black models are, not so much the silver). Both are solid receivers and I think you'd be pleased with either. If possible, I'd suggest listening to both and see which you prefer. If you find either one will suit you, then it may come down to price. Good luck with your choice and have fun looking!

 

[S.R. Johnson]

I would have to say that both brands a great! But IMHO I would go for the Onkyo, due to the fact that the Onkyo sounds better to my ears. But listen to both receivers and see what sounds better to you.

 

[The13thGryphon]

Personally, I'd go with the HK... but then if you look at my signature below you might conclude that I'm a little biased. Okay, I admitt it... I just might be!

However, as to which unit sounds "better" keep one thing in mind. It will very much depend on the speakers they're matched with, the music you listen to, and also your room/environment.

If you like a little more sizzle on the top end, you might prefer the Onkyo. If you like a smoother presentation, or you get listening fatigue after a couple hours of music, then you might want the HK instead.

But don't forget the speakers and room either. If you have a set of speakers that are already quite extended in the higher registers (especially if they have metal dome or horn tweeters), then the HK might be a better match. However, if your speakers are a little reticent in the highs, or your room is over damped with lots of plush carpet, padded chairs and couch, heavy drapes, etc., then the Onkyo could be just the ticket.

Better is very subjective. Better with what... better at what... better under what conditions. It's all in the synergy of the system as a whole.

 

[tbewick]

I have to disagree with the subjective comparisons of the amplifiers. A decent quality amplifier should add hardly any distortion as long as you don't drive it into clipping. The whole idea of matching components subjectively is flawed. The distortion added by amplifiers can be measured quantitatively and is given in the specifications.

In most hi-fi systems, it will be the loudspeaker that is the weakest link. The best specs for a loudspeaker I've seen are for the B&W 801 series 2. At 95 dB the harmonic distortion is 0.5%. An amplifier a fraction of the cost of these loudspeakers would easily manage this and probably better it. Not to mention the fact that the loudspeaker still probably adds all kinds of transient distortion which will not happen with an amplifier. This can be shown using objective tests. For example, transient distortion added by a poor loudspeaker is shown in the waveforms in the picture I've provided (Ref: Practical Hi-Fi Sound, R. Driscoll, Hamlyn, p139).

There is absolutely no reason to believe that one amplifier will sound less tiring than another. If the amplifiers have different performances, it will be reflected in the specifications (THD, frequency response, and signal to noise). Only a poorly designed amplifier will produce other types of distortion.

 

[tomd51]

If your contention that all receivers with onboard amplification, taking into consideration all the specifications are the same or very similar as are the listening environment and setup, are going to sound identical, you're mistaken.

If you're to compare external amplification with the same pre/pro, then there is a likely possibility you'll get the same results or at the very least, the differences will be very sutble and may not even be noticable. However, the fact is that built-in processors for each individual receiver have different sonic characteristics, otherwise each manufacturer's receiver with the same specifications would sound exactly the same, which is most definitely not the case.

Both speakers and processors have the ability to greatly affect the signal produced, whereas amplifiers themselves, will have very little impact on the sonic characteristics produced. If this is what you were eluding to in the first place, I'll just shut my hole now... -TD

 

[tbewick]

Hi Tomd51,

I think this more succinctly somes up what I was trying to say:

"The overall quality of high fidelity components (as opposed to prepackaged systems) from established manufacturer in the field has risen to a point where major sonic differences are only likely to be heard between loudspeakers or between systems costing considerably different amounts"

- Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th edn, Vol. 27, page 624.

Subjectively there maybe subtle differences, as there maybe between different types of cables, so I suppose I'm going along with what The13thGryphon said. Such differences though, being subjective, can be unreliable.

I did forget in my earlier post to mention crossover distortion.

"Distortion in general is caused by some form of non-linearity in a system. In other words the output does not faithfully follow the input... Some forms of distortion are proportioned to the input signal level whilst others are more or less constant and therefore appear worse at low signal levels. An example of this effect is found in crossover distortion which is due to mismatch in the output devices of certain types of audio amplifier"

- Practical Hi-Fi Sound, R. Driscoll, Hamlyn, p69

B&W say that crossover distortion is 'still surprising common' can make the sound more 'clinical'.

 

[korgoth]

Well from glancing @ their back panels, I noticed a few things right away...
The onkyo has 3 component inputs vs HK's 2
The onkyo only has a subwoofer preout vs HK's 7ch preouts
The onkyo has a pair of "B" or "zone 2" which is useful for powering a pair of speakers in a kitchen or patio for example

well thats just some of the stuff thats noticable from looking @ the back of the units

hk has multi zones as well..

 

[tomd51]

Hi Tomd51,

I think this more succinctly somes up what I was trying to say:

"The overall quality of high fidelity components (as opposed to prepackaged systems) from established manufacturer in the field has risen to a point where major sonic differences are only likely to be heard between loudspeakers or between systems costing considerably different amounts"

- Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th edn, Vol. 27, page 624.

Subjectively there maybe subtle differences, as there maybe between different types of cables, so I suppose I'm going along with what The13thGryphon said. Such differences though, being subjective, can be unreliable.

I did forget in my earlier post to mention crossover distortion.


"Distortion in general is caused by some form of non-linearity in a system. In other words the output does not faithfully follow the input... Some forms of distortion are proportioned to the input signal level whilst others are more or less constant and therefore appear worse at low signal levels. An example of this effect is found in crossover distortion which is due to mismatch in the output devices of certain types of audio amplifier"

- Practical Hi-Fi Sound, R. Driscoll, Hamlyn, p69

B&W say that crossover distortion is 'still surprising common' can make the sound more 'clinical'.

Right...