Hard to drive Totem Mani 2s

[petermwilson]

Hi,
My processor is a Denon 5800/03 170w X 7. My speaker set up is Totem Model 1 Signatures front L/R and Sig Totem center. Surround A Totem Model 1 non sigs (Totems are 4ohm sensitivity 87), Surround B Axiom QS4s, Effects Monitor Bronze B1s (all 8ohm). Deftech SuperCube II sub.

I Have been loaned the Mani 2's (4ohm sens 85, dual wooffer isobaric or back to back config) by a friend to test the concept of a phantom center in my small 10-12' Wide HT so Ill remove the Model 1's accross the front for the test.

Both Denon and Totem agree that the Denon doesn't have enough current to drive the Mani's without help.

Here's the question. I've borrowed an old NAD 2600 150w X 2 amp to help out. How should I use it? Should I do a Bi-Amp or should I just use the NAD for the Mani's.

I have never used separates or performed a Bi-Amp before so I'm hoping that you might explain the reasoning behind your suggestions because I was thrown for a loop when Vince Brussezzi the owner designer of Totem told me that it wasn't the wattage of the Denon that was lacking for these speakers but the electrical current.

Thanks in advance,
Peter M.

 

[Privateer]

With recievers by the big name companies like denon or yamaha they cannot drive a 4 ohm speaker.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Any speaker rated at 4 ohms and 85dB definitely needs their own separate power amps. No way, no how should a surround sound receiver be trying to drive pigs like that. That goes for NAD, Rotel, B&K, Marantz, etc... There's not enough room in a 7.1 surround receiver for massive toroidal transformers and huge heat sinks. The 5800 series receivers from Denon are outstanding units, but IMO would perform much better as a pre amp in that situation. (exception - 5805 and a few other flagships, but I still like a separate power amp with pigs).

Try using the amp to drive the speakers by itself, then experiment with biamping. I'd use the NAD amp to drive the bass when you biamp. The mids and highs won't require that much power and can run off the 5800.

 

[petermwilson]

Hi Buckeye Fan 1,
I like your idea of using the Denon for the tweeter and the Nad for the grunt work.

I'm not sure even the Denon 5805 could handle the Mani's if it was being used as a dual zone receiver. It has exactly the same 170w amps as the 5800 but more of them. If you had channels you wern't using maybee you could bi-amp that way, but would it provide enough electrical current?

Anyway, I don't have a 5805 so it's a moot point.

Thanks muchly,
Peter M.

 

[Privateer]

petermwilson, what would be your budget for a seperate amp.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi,
My processor is a Denon 5800/03 170w X 7. My speaker set up is Totem Model 1 Signatures front L/R and Sig Totem center. Surround A Totem Model 1 non sigs (Totems are 4ohm sensitivity 87), Surround B Axiom QS4s, Effects Monitor Bronze B1s (all 8ohm). Deftech SuperCube II sub.

I Have been loaned the Mani 2's (4ohm sens 85, dual wooffer isobaric or back to back config) by a friend to test the concept of a phantom center in my small 10-12' Wide HT so Ill remove the Model 1's accross the front for the test.

Both Denon and Totem agree that the Denon doesn't have enough current to drive the Mani's without help.

Here's the question. I've borrowed an old NAD 2600 150w X 2 amp to help out. How should I use it? Should I do a Bi-Amp or should I just use the NAD for the Mani's.

I have never used separates or performed a Bi-Amp before so I'm hoping that you might explain the reasoning behind your suggestions because I was thrown for a loop when Vince Brussezzi the owner designer of Totem told me that it wasn't the wattage of the Denon that was lacking for these speakers but the electrical current.

Thanks in advance,
Peter M.

With those speakers, not even that NAD will do. You need a big one, rated for 4 Ohms RMS and lots of power, way more than 150 watts.

 

[Azz123]

"drive those pigs"..... <laughs> Love it.....

 

[furrycute]

How much does that NAD amp weigh? I tend to evaluate amps based on weight. The heavier the amp is, the more powerful it is, regardless of what the manufacturer claims about the power ratings. Because things like transformers, heat sinks have weight, and the heavier they are, the more power they are capable of putting out.

Most NAD amps don't weigh that much, most are under 30lb, that tells me that NAD amps aren't up to par with some of the heavy weights of the amp industry.


Of course all bets are off when you consider digital amps. Those things don't weigh a ton yet can put out a ton of power.

 

[petermwilson]

Hi,
The amp isn't that heavy about 20lbs max. I was thinking of using the Denon to feed the tweeter and use the NAD to feed the power hungry bass of the Mani's

Peter M.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Of course all bets are off when you consider digital amps. Those things don't weigh a ton yet can put out a ton of power.

I think it's best to call them switching amps, more accurate.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi,
The amp isn't that heavy about 20lbs max. I was thinking of using the Denon to feed the tweeter and use the NAD to feed the power hungry bass of the Mani's

Peter M.

It still won't cut it. The tweeters don't usually need much power. Consider a real amp.

 

[jaxvon]

Perhaps a pair of these? Not the cheapest option, but they're high quality.

 

[soniceuphoria]

A good and inexpensive amp to take a look at is the crest audio Vs series. One can be had for as little as $200 from ebay. I am currently using a Vs450 to power my notoriously inefficent carver ALIII's and the speakers start to give way before the amp. The amp is rated at 375 watts (I do believe) and I do believe their power ratings are grossly understated. They also handle 2 ohm loads with ease, never even getting warm. And with inefficent speakers resistance tends to drop under load (2.5 ohms or lower) so an amp with good low resistance stability is a must. IMHO this is the best value in amplification available to date. I wish you good luck and Happy Listening.
Greg

 

[mtrycrafts]

Perhaps a pair of these? Not the cheapest option, but they're high quality.

That might work
that is about a 29dB gain, plus any dynamic headroom.

 

[furrycute]

Is that Outlaw audio amp a monobloc? If so that might work, 2 amps will weigh about 40lbs, just about right to power a pair of 4ohm speakers.

If you want to go with a stereo amp, I wouldn't consider any amps that weigh less than 40lbs.