Had an oddball thought - SACD-ROM?

[captain_tinker]

Folks,
Hey, I just had an oddball thought. I don't know if this has been discussed here or not, I did not search like I probably should have. Anyway, I was thinking of SACD's, and wondering what the file structure was like. I know on a music cd, if you were to put it into a cd drive on a computer, you would find it was CDFS (I think so anyway) and there would be files like Track01.cda or something like that. I wonder, what is the structure of an SACD?

I doubt that there is or ever would be, a cdrom drive for a computer that could read an SACD's multichannel layer. So I don't know if there is really a way to figure that out. I think it could be nice to have an SACD-ROM drive for a computer, not to rip anything from, because the sound quality of an SACD being ripped to an MP3 would just be awful, I am sure.

Don't you think that maybe the extra layer would be nice for extra space on a CD? (let's see, 700mb x 2 layers = 1400 mb, or 80 min x 2 = 160 mins) I don't know if it would be quite as much space as on a DVD, but a dual layer CD would be nice, or to be able to create your own music or data SACD, multichannel or stereo, either way, would be nice. What do you think?

-capT

 

[AVRat]

I think you've got your wires crossed -- LOL

 

[jonnythan]

Why bother developing that when DVD burners are $40?

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

If people had a flawless digital connection for SACD they would discover CD is transparent all by itself, and all the "improved sound" they were promissed was placebo created by the exotic cable industry cabal.

 

[captain_tinker]

I think you've got your wires crossed -- LOL

AVRat,
I see you read my other post about having my cables on the wrong contacts. Haha!

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22969

Owell, chalk that one up to still being somewhat of a newbie with all this.

I did find out some stuff just after posting this that things were not what I was thinking they were. I found a post in a forum over at cdfreaks that explained a bit more in depth just what an SACD is.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/95

It turns out that the second layer is what they call an HD layer, and is more like a DVD than anything else. On page 8, it says that an SACD has the same capacity of 4.7 gb as a DVD, and much higher frequency and sampling than a cd, or even a DVD. So I was very wrong in my size estimations.

In any case, I decided to try a test tonight of the only SACD that I own so far. Carl Orff's O Fortuna. I put it in my Toshiba SD1600 to play it as a CD on the hybrid cd layer. It went out over the digital out to my Marantz receiver. I put it on pure direct so that I could keep the signal from being processed at all. I played the first track, O Fortuna, and listened to it on -10. The voices were clear and the drum beat was forceful. I then popped it into my Pioneer 588a, chose the 2 channel DSD analog out, rather than the multichannel, and ran it through the Marantz using the 7.1 input. The analog input on this receiver does not seem to allow me to change anything, no extra bass or treble etc. So I played it, also on -10. Interestingly, it sounded just slightly more distant, and the drum beat was still forceful, but did not seem to have quite as much power to them. This is just with some small Paradigm Titans, I have no sub yet. I then set the Pioneer to play it as a cd through the digital out using PCM, and it again sounded more powerful and much more authoritative. So, I started wondering, why is that?

I think I figured it out, tell me if I am right, or if there is something else. When putting the signal in using the digital in, the cd or dvd player does not do the processing of the signal. It does not use it's own DAC's or whatever, it uses those of the receiver. When playing the disc using the analog outs of the DVD/SACD player to the receiver, it is the SACD player that does the processing, just passing an analog signal to the receiver who then pipes it to the speakers as is. So if your receiver does a better job with digital than analog, then pcm and DTS, and DD will all probably all sound better than the analog DSD of the SACD. Does that sound right to you?

I also wondered if maybe it was simply that in order for the SACD to really sound right, you need the rest of the speakers, since it is mastered in 6 channels after all. Maybe it was also that I was using the 2 channel instead of the multichannel?

-capT

 

[j_garcia]

I don't know if it is that particular disc, but in most cases the SACD levels, whether 2ch or m/c are lower than that of the CD tracks. You will most likely find yourself turning the bass up from the CD tracks.

The multichannel inputs expect a completely decoded signal, so you cannot change any sound parameters. My 8300 allows level adjustment on the m/c input and that is it.

I don't understand your connections? You need 6 analog connections for SACD - to the 7.1 input on the Marantz. If you have the stereo analog AND the multichannel analog connected, you should disconnect the stereo. For M/C AND 2ch SACD and DVD-A, this is what you should use when listening, AND you have to make sure you have selected the 2ch track on the SACD. If you choose the M/C track and play it through the stereo analog output from the player, you will be missing 4 channels and you won't be hearing everything that you are supposed to.

 

[captain_tinker]

j_garcia,
I suppose I have not really explained well. There are three kinds of outputs on the DVD player. Stereo Analog, Digital out (coax, optical), and 6 channel analog out. I have cables only from the digital coax, and 6 channel analog out. I do not have the stereo analog out attached.

On the receiver, it is the same. The 6 channel analog out from the DVD player is attached to the 8 channel (7.1) input on the receiver, and the digital out (coax) from the DVD is attached to the digital in on the receiver.

There is an option in the menu's of the DVD player to play an SACD using the 2 channel stereo track, multichannel track, or cd track. Using the cd track, the output goes out of the digital coax. Using the 2 channel or multichannel track goes out over the 6 channel analog out. I don't know if it goes out over the stereo analog out or not. I haven't hooked it up to see.

I am anxious to get ahold of a DVD-Audio to try it out and see how it sounds. I have already found that I really like DTS-discs, having downloaded a few dts wav files and burned to cd and created my own dts disc. I have found however that even though there are like 400 titles or more out there, there have been very few that I have really wanted to get. I do like Classical the best for hi rez stuff, but my wife really hates classical and will often complain about it if I play it too much. So last night I cranked up Chicago's greatest hits for a bit, just for a change. It is only on cd, but it still sounds great. My kids bounced and danced around the room to some of the songs. Fun to watch. I remember doing stuff like that myself as a kid, when my Dad would play Mannheim Steamroller's Fresh Aire V on LP. We used to pretend the couch was a spaceship! Ah Memories...

-capT