Guitar Hook-Up

[swany river]

I have an older Harman/Kordan AVR 20. I would like to hook-up my guitar but the only jack that will accept the guitar jack is the opening for the headphones. Am I spinning my wheels? Thanks

 

[Swerd]

I have an older Harman/Kordan AVR 20. I would like to hook-up my guitar but the only jack that will accept the guitar jack is the opening for the headphones. Am I spinning my wheels?

Yes, you're spinning wheels. The headphone jack is meant to provide low voltage audio signals to drive the small speakers in headphones. Don't send guitar signals into it. I don't know if it will damage anything, but it won't work as you think.

The HK and the speakers hooked up to it are meant for audio playback of recordings. Input from a guitar could damage things, even if it was hooked into a suitable audio input jack.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/mobile/products/irig2/
I've used this before. It's not like plugging into a Marshall stack but it's fun. Works with headphones too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bucknekked]

Think of the headphone jack as a "goes-outtta". You need a "goes-inta". Sticking your guitar cable in a goes-outta, even if it fits, won't get you anything good.

I have a Les Paul and I connect it to my audio system via a USB cable that comes right out of the guitar, has a dongle on it, and then plugs in to a USB port on my Mac. The Mac then does it magic and pipes the sound to the receiver. All the goes-inta's and goes-outta's are happy.

 

[highfigh]

I have an older Harman/Kordan AVR 20. I would like to hook-up my guitar but the only jack that will accept the guitar jack is the opening for the headphones. Am I spinning my wheels? Thanks

What is the goal of this exercise? If you're trying to avoid buying a guitar amp, buy a small used one. Or, if you can spend a bit over $100 and want some good effects, look at the Roland Cube.

 

[Bucknekked]

What is the goal of this exercise? If you're trying to avoid buying a guitar amp, buy a small used one. Or, if you can spend a bit over $100 and want some good effects, look at the Roland Cube.

highfigh,
I dunno for the OP. I can tell you why I do it. Not to avoid buying an amp, I have a nice fender sitting right in my listening room. I do it so I can use Garage Band on my Mac and play along with the lessons and the backing tracks and such. Its just another way to practice.

For the OP, if he's trying to avoid the purchase of an amp, why have an electric guitar? You can't ever hit the volumes you want without one. Hopefully its just for practice or goofin.

 

[highfigh]

highfigh,
I dunno for the OP. I can tell you why I do it. Not to avoid buying an amp, I have a nice fender sitting right in my listening room. I do it so I can use Garage Band on my Mac and play along with the lessons and the backing tracks and such. Its just another way to practice.

For the OP, if he's trying to avoid the purchase of an amp, why have an electric guitar? You can't ever hit the volumes you want without one. Hopefully its just for practice or goofin.

I know how you use yours from the description- I'm familiar with Garage Band, but having plugged an electric into a stereo and knowing how bad it sounds when compared with a decent guitar amp, I was just trying to find out why he wanted to do this.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I don't know the voltage outputs or much else about instruments, but wouldn't a guitar preamp be able to be hooked up to a home theater system through RCA jacks easily enough?

I mean, something like this designed for guitars...
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=611700

Then a 1/8" stereo to RCA jack cable into the receiver?
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021817&p_id=9768&seq=1&format=2

There are certainly much more expensive/pro-level guitar preamps on the market, but it's not like in a serious concert they plug into guitar amp/speaker combos. They are going to professional mixing boards. I'm guessing something between to drive the signal and ensure it is balanced. (Direct Box?)

Anyway, I would think a decent receiver/speaker combo would outperform a cheap 100 speaker/amp combo most days of the week, and certainly that receiver is meant to drive any audio from line level sources, and should not be labeled otherwise. The key is ensuring that audio output from the guitar is coming into the receiver as line level on RCA connections.

 

[Bucknekked]

I

Anyway, I would think a decent receiver/speaker combo would outperform a cheap 100 speaker/amp combo most days of the week, and certainly that receiver is meant to drive any audio from line level sources, and should not be labeled otherwise.

BMXTRIX
Theory and connectivity is one thing, how does it sound is another thing. I have limited experience with connecting guitars to a lot of systems : but I know what it sounds like with my system. My fender amp is made to work with a guitar. My Denon AVR isn't, but can be made to amplify and play it.

The Fender sounds great any day of the week, the Denon simply doesn't even on its best day. The Fender has zero audio delays. Many times pushing through multiple connections an audio delay gets inserted and that is 100% annoying when connecting via computer and avr.

To sum it up: connect to an avr if you must for a specific purpose. Other than that, use the amp that the good Lord and Fender/Marshall/Orange designed for the purpose.

 

[Bucknekked]

Or, if you can spend a bit over $100 and want some good effects, look at the Roland Cube.

And by the way, the Roland Cube and its brothers and sisters are a hoot to play. For something small and inexpensive, they have great sound and a great fun factor. Go to any big city that has buskers out playing tunes for tips, and odds are very good you will find Roland amps. Cheap, simple, good sound.

As highfigh asked : what's the purpose of plugging in to an AVR? especially when there are tailor made simple, easy and cheap solutions that the music industry has come up with years ago.

 

[TLS Guy]

You can easily blow up domestic equipment by connecting instruments to it, especially speakers.

I would strongly recommend you use a direct box that also provides attenuation. You can come out of the box with mono phone jack and Y connector to RCA.

This will reduce the signal from guitars which are very hot.

 

[highfigh]

I don't know the voltage outputs or much else about instruments, but wouldn't a guitar preamp be able to be hooked up to a home theater system through RCA jacks easily enough?

I mean, something like this designed for guitars...
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=611700

Then a 1/8" stereo to RCA jack cable into the receiver?
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021817&p_id=9768&seq=1&format=2

There are certainly much more expensive/pro-level guitar preamps on the market, but it's not like in a serious concert they plug into guitar amp/speaker combos. They are going to professional mixing boards. I'm guessing something between to drive the signal and ensure it is balanced. (Direct Box?)

Anyway, I would think a decent receiver/speaker combo would outperform a cheap 100 speaker/amp combo most days of the week, and certainly that receiver is meant to drive any audio from line level sources, and should not be labeled otherwise. The key is ensuring that audio output from the guitar is coming into the receiver as line level on RCA connections.

The signal level from a guitar preamp isn't really the problem (it can be dialed down)- first, most people don't use a preamp and separate power amp, which was very common in the '80s and some of the studio rats and metal guys and others, like Allan Holdsworth, who had racks that were referred to as 'Mission Control'. It's not a practical way to get the sounds people want- the response from a guitar is far from flat and the equalization in a stereo isn't able to yield the response of a guitar amp. Plus, the desired sounds for guitar tend to have a good amount of distortion and the distorted sound from a stereo is far from desirable. Another reason for NOT plugging a guitar into a stereo is that electrically, they were never designed to be used that way even if the stereo has a mic input (like some older models did).

People have used tape recorders to get specific sounds for their guitar, but it's not common and it usually ends up damaging the VU meters. Lindsey Buckingham did this on the Fleetwood Mac and Rumors albums.

Live, if all instruments go through the board, it's mostly done with one or more mics or, as you mentioned, a Direct box, but often, this gets its signal from a line out on the amp and converts from high impedance to low or passes the LowZ signal through.

As far as a decent stereo outperforming "a cheap 100 speaker/amp combo"- a ~20W guitar amp can be very loud. A late-'50s Fender Bassman will bury a 100W stereo if the guitar amp is cranked- a guitar amp provides a lot more gain than a stereo preamp and another reason for using a guitar amp- it sounds like a guitar through a guitar amp, something that can't be said about going through a stereo. No stereo will EVER sound like a classic vintage Fnder, Marshal, Vox or other guitar amp of any power.

Some small practice amps have a line out and even a line in for playing along with music from a hand held device like an iPod or phone. Used, they're not expensive and the Roland Cube can be operated using batteries.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I always wonder at this point what magic amp is inside a guitar amp which actually is different than all the amps the are made by Crown, Denon, or anyone else to lead to these types of statements. Or what's so different about a late '50s Fender Bassman compared to an amplifier and quality speakers today.

When people listen to a good recording of someone playing the guitar, on their home system, I now wonder why the speakers just don't blow up and sound lousy?

I think the key in all of this is the proper conversion from what's coming out of the guitar to a voltage and range which is in line with the home theater system. If you are overdriving the inputs, it will sound horrendous, and if you don't have a proper guitar preamp (or it sounds like it may actually need to cut gain), then it wouldn't work.

Either way, the OP seems like they may be on quite the budget, and there likely isn't a way to get good sound into a HT system on a budget. You need the equalizers and proper connections to deliver the best sound. The electric guitar side is certainly not my area of expertise, but I'm still at a complete loss as to why distortion from a guitar would damage my HT system if fed at the proper levels when distortion from guitars in basically in every CD I own. It's not distorting the stereo or speakers, they are just playing back what's fed to them, without clipping, but accurately. Shouldn't they?

As for sounding like a guitar through a guitar amp... I really have no idea if that's a good or a bad thing. It may be like saying "nothing sounds like a record playing on a good record player", it's certainly the case, but good or bad is still questionable.

All meant in good nature of course and I'd be more interested in hearing it all both ways and then making more of an informed decision.

 

[Bucknekked]

I always wonder at this point what magic amp is inside a guitar amp which actually is different than all the amps the are made by Crown, Denon, or anyone else to lead to these types of statements. Or what's so different about a late '50s Fender Bassman compared to an amplifier and quality speakers today.

All meant in good nature of course and I'd be more interested in hearing it all both ways and then making more of an informed decision.

BMXTRIX:
What highfigh was explaining is the basic difference between a guitar amp and a home stereo amp.
There's no magic. There's a design difference based on the fundamental difference in use.
A guitar amp is made for sound production.
A home stereo is made for sound re-production.
There is a fundamental design difference between the two use cases. A home stereo amp is designed for a relatively flat frequency response. A guitar amp is certainly not designed for a flat response: distortion is encouraged to a certain point. Emphasis might be a better term. Gain is one of the magic words

There are discussions out there on many guitar/music forums about the differences between the two.
I will just tell you there is a difference, and if you wish to quantify it: there's acres of google available.

I too express all my thoughts in a good natured format as well.

It seems the original poster hasn't been back to this forum since he dropped the question. At least, he hasn't made a sound since the thread started. So this may all be for our own entertainment.

 

[TLS Guy]

Bucknekked is absolutely correct. A performing guitar is an instrument and NOT a reproducer.

A guitar amp and speaker are usually considered a unit. Generally the amps are purposely driven to clipping. This is an area where many prefer tubes to get even harmonic distortion.

The speakers are rough and tough, with large paper coned drivers purposely driven into the break up region, and often with an aluminum dust cap to make the midrange even more aggressive.

Now when I have been involved in these sessions, I used to use a direct boxes from the guitars that sent a high impedance signal to the guitar amps and also sent a balanced mic output to the mix desk. I built them using Beyer transformers. This way you could get a balance of sound direct from the instrument and that produced by the speaker.

So the recording either live or studio is not the stage sound, but a modified version of it with enormous variation from the stage mix in degrees dictated by the situation.

If you sent most stage mixes to the recording you would have a lot of broken speakers, especially tweeters. Instrument speakers are much rougher and tougher than home audio speakers.

In addition for pop music some degree of gated compression is always used to protect home audio equipment.

This should not surprise, as I use modified organ pipes of the Gedeckt family in my speakers. That is what TL is.

Now in an organ you want one note to sound, so narrow resonance is required. Harmonic distortion is essential. In an organ is is harmonic distortion that gives the organ is character. Organ builders are skilled in designing pipes to have a wide variety of harmonic character, which makes every stop on the instrument unique, aside from some stops being flue pipes and some reeds.

For a loudspeaker, I want a wide assist to the driver and no harmonic distortion. That is the polar opposite of what the organ builder wants.

So it should not surprise if the requirements of instrument amps and speakers are very different from those of home audio amps and speakers.

 

[Hobbit]

I have an older Harman/Kordan AVR 20. I would like to hook-up my guitar but the only jack that will accept the guitar jack is the opening for the headphones. Am I spinning my wheels? Thanks

Back in the day I hooked my electric guitar directly through a tape player and cranked it to disortions to see how it would sound. There's one song off the Derek and the Dominoes album that reminds me the way it sounded, kind of muddled and not very clear. Good as a novelty in one-off song but not much beyond that. I often wondered if that was how the DatD song was recorded?

 

[Dan Madden]

I play acoustic guitars and have a Peavey mixer/amp. I play my acoustics through my home system all the time using the Peavey's RCA line outputs and they sound awesome through my home system when I'm at home practicing. When I perform, I use the Peavey's amp section into tough speakers designed for live performance.