Got the go ahead to start the next phase

[Sherri]

We have our long term project on the go here and I am now looking at getting speakers and components. I was hoping for an unbiased opinion from some who will not be making a profit.

My Needs. Speakers, Make choices are Polk RC80i (My Choice), Speakercraft (Installers suggestion), Proficient (Installers Suggestion). Russound (I looked at them, but dismissed them once.. Installer said I should reconsider)

I have been set on polk for years and will not be sidetracked by an installers wish. The ones we got to do the original wiring went out of business and I am just now bringing in a new company.

But in my research.. The polk still look like champs. My budget is 400 per speaker. Would prefer to save as much as I can. I need 10 8" 5-6" and 4 6" exterior speakers needed for the current project.


All speakers will be in ceiling unless otherwise specified.

Living room 20x20x20
4 8" speakers. 10' apart and 24" from side wall edges and 4' from the top of the wall, above the TV.
Slope is a 12/12 pitch vaulted ceiling.
Speaker height 10-12' off of the floor 45 degree angle, shoots directly at where people are sitting.

Built-in subwoofer already installed between one set of speakers across from TV above where people sit.

Kitchen (off of living room, open design)
2- 8" speakers
Kitty corner from each other with Built-in Sub above sink.


Loft (Open design to living room and kitchen)
4-8" speakers 10' off floor. 2 Subs across from each other between speakers.
Ceiling a 4/12 pitch



My Wants
Access to all my media on iTunes from any room I will be running Savant HA system.

I want every room to have access to TV with the sound to be pumped through the speakers.

Can I use the speakers as my intercom?
Can I tie my security cameras into the audio?

Zone totals 12-16 Min/Max

Loft needs 4-8" Zone #1

Main Floor needs
living room 4-8" Zone #2
Kitchen 2-8" Zone #3
Guest bath 1 6" Speaker Zone #4
Master Bedroom 2-6" Speakers Zone #5
Ensuite 2-6" speakers I also have a shower/Steamroom that is wired for Tv, music and telephone. Zone #6

Basement needs (Not too high on the list) (Zones 7-8-9-10)
Theatre (A whole different ballgame. I expect to get to it in a few years)
2 small bedrooms both to be wired for Tv, sound, intercom.
Bathroom


Garage 2-8" (I have 4 old Nuvos from my old house, I will use them in the garage and the room above it) I have a few keypads with them as well. (Zones 11-12)

I remember a lot of clipping on my last system, which was professionally installed. I had Harmon Kardon and Nuvo components running it Please don't ask me to be specific.. it was years ago and I was not involved that time.

Outside speakers (2-4 Zones needed altogether) This is not fully planned out yet.

I want my exterior speakers to eventually cover most of my 3 acres in the form of a garden path music and music for me when I am out in the garden.

I would like to have multiple zones to be able to run at once. I will just keep adding components as I need them. So budget isn't a big issue.

I think I might be comfortable with a mix of separate components and a few receivers. I want to get the music started and all I need is my living room Tv and my main floor up and running, well the garage would be nice as well. But I am just not that quick. I am have to finish building the cabinet first.

This is a dream home that we have been working on for over a decade to get where we are, and we expect the house to take 6-8 more years.

I want to design it to have my yard lights move in time with the music if the mood strikes me. (Years down the road before I finish landscaping)

I like my music loud and fear no noise complaint as I live in the bush.

Any and all input would be terrific, I have a little knowledge about little if that gives you any hint at my level of expertise.

I am looking for some mid range (High side) for components and want to make them match my speaker selection. I would think I would be able to mix and match high use zones with low use so minimize any droppage? That isn't a word is it.

Please ask me any question if you need to and feel free to make any suggestions that might help improve my planning.
.

 

[shadyJ]

The sound throughout the house will be badly compromised due to in-ceiling speakers. In-ceiling speakers are only fit for background music or public address systems, but not really for anything else. Sound quality is a low priority here. As for the electronics, there are multi-channel whole home audio systems like these, and I would probably have an installer deal with them if you are not used to routing wires through walls.

 

[TheWarrior]

@Sherri trust your installer! You're paying them money, you should trust them! Polk has a long history and is widely known, but I would never in my life pay $400 for an inceiling speaker, especially one made by Polk!

As Shady pointed out, all of these rooms will receive negligible benefit from in ceiling speakers when used for movies. So with that in mind, let your installer get you the best deal and save the remaining budget for your future theater!

 

[herbu]

It sounds like you have a variety of applications that may mean a variety of speakers... not a bunch of the same thing. Think carefully about what you want. Quality in the home theater room? Volume in the garden? Background in other zones? This does not sound like a simple installation. Rather than trying to learn all and shopping for suitable components, I would spend some time shopping for an installer. Find as many as you can. Talk to them and talk to their references. See if some customers will let you visit and listen to their system. And don't be afraid to look outside of your immediate area. For a project like yours, an installer may likely be willing to travel.

 

[Seth=L]

@Sherri

You mean these Polks?

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107RC80I/Polk-Audio-RC80i.html?tp=193&awkw=75619488865&awat=pla_with_promotion&awnw=g&awcr=47439080665&awdv=c

They're only $99.99 for the pair through Crutchfield, which means they could probably be found elsewhere for cheaper. I know you didn't how much they cost, but you also said you didn't want to spend more than $400 per speaker. $50 per speaker is a far cry from $400 a speaker.

I agree with others here though. The other recommendations by your installer are quality products that are made by companies that specialize in commercial and whole home audio as well as automation. Polk, while a respected company, is not particularly "revered" for this application.

Speakercraft, Russound, Proficient, Niles, Elan, etc... are brands that specifically target the commercial and whole home sound installations.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I disagree with other. I think dear OP - your plan to go with identical $50/pop Polk in-ceiling speakers is simply stroke of genius ! Think about it - every single sound will come from above, just like angels are talk to you.
Especially what for you call a "dream" home !! Looks like your local installer has no idea about whole house system he's trying to cheat you into buying these weird and not consumer well known brands! What the hell he could possibly know.

So - go with your own plan. Randomly run some wires and randomly connect to bottom of shelf AVR - I mean it's has 2-3 zones - means i can handle whole house, right? Then in due years - after several damaged AVRs, tweeters and crappy sound and possible house fire due to predicted wiring/component failure, you'd eventually rip it all out - pay 2-3 times more in labor plus original price and get the system your installer originally suggested - you'd get to support Audio industry twice. Think of it as a unique privilege.

</Sarcasm>

 

[herbu]

I disagree with other. I think dear OP - your plan to go with identical $50/pop Polk in-ceiling speakers is simply stroke of genius ! Think about it - every single sound will come from above, just like angels are talk to you.
Especially what for you call a "dream" home !! Looks like your local installer has no idea about whole house system he's trying to cheat you into buying these weird and not consumer well known brands! What the hell he could possibly know.

So - go with your own plan. Randomly run some wires and randomly connect to bottom of shelf AVR - I mean it's has 2-3 zones - means i can handle whole house, right? Then in due years - after several damaged AVRs, tweeters and crappy sound and possible house fire due to predicted wiring/component failure, you'd eventually rip it all out - pay 2-3 times more in labor plus original price and get the system your installer originally suggested - you'd get to support Audio industry twice. Think of it as a unique privilege.

</Sarcasm>

Somebody needs a hug... or a drink... or a weekend in Colorado.

 

[Sherri]

I appreciate the input and maybe didn't express myself well. I do that often. I don't want to start out with a system that doesn't meet my wants. That is sort of why in part that this project has lasted for as many years as it has.


Let me ask it this way.

I would love some suggestions maybe for in ceiling speakers that I will be able to turn up if I wish without having to replace them, I like things loud sometimes. I have a budget of 400 per speaker.

My wiring is done. Everything is done. All I need is to attach items at the ends of the wires.


I thought speakers were pretty much all the same and it was the components that drives them that would make the difference. With so many brands under so few companies, I assumed it was like many other items on todays market. One company will make several items under differing names.. all while charging different prices for the same item.

Judging from the snark I received I will take that as I was wrong. I guess that is why I am here asking. I know there are too many variances for me to consider as a noob.

The previous installer never survived the recession. I do have a new company coming in in the new year.. but he is more HA oriented. And I want to get my sound up and running asap.

If any of you had a choice of in ceiling speaker.. what would you go with?

Think dream house and try to understand we all have to live with limitations and sacrifices.

This is a log home. Not a place where one would want wires all over the place, that is why everything is in the ceiling.

In the basement will be the HT and 2 bedrooms that will also be wired for sound.

I am very used to pulling my own wires. This is the second home I have built and I try to do my own work every chance I get.

TY Shady. My search results never once come up with those items. I know it all comes down to the correct search terms. I don't seem to have been using them.. Thanks

Seth.
I wasn't getting any of the brands you rattled off.. But TY. A direct search allows me to do some digging.

I really appreciate the input.. and the snark was endearing. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

[herbu]

Sherri,
Look here for some recommended speakers: http://www.audioholics.com/outdoor-speaker-reviews

You may want to consider going a little over budget, ($400 ea), in the room(s) where quality is more important, and a little under budget in the room(s) where you anticipate mostly background.

 

[Sherri]

Thanks Herbu I appreciate that.. I am already starting my planting for my landscaping and I don't want another season outside without sound. I am more productive if I have external stimuli to keep me distracted from the fact I am working.

There is a sale on in ceiling klipsch 1800 c in town. I was thinking I can get 10 of them cheap.. but now I am not thinking that is a good plan. I agree with you, I am better off improving my speakers now or not putting speakers in all the rooms at this time. I actually have 2 speakers in my bathroom, and 2 inside the shower stall.. A little overkill I think. And yet too late to cover the holes in the bathroom ceiling. Lack of forethought there.

What is the very least I need with the speakers to get up and running, component wise? Is a whole home system going to be sufficient? ShadyJ gave me a starting point. The first system in his link says 25 watts per.. I don't want to wish for more. What should I be looking at for a base line. Poor quality doesn't interest me. I am willing to save to get what is needed.


I have 4 speakers left over from my last house. They are 2 in ceiling (Unknown Model) and 2 in wall Nuvo speakers. Nv5251

They are about 15 years old.. new in the box. I was going to use the in wall in the garage due to their age.. I also have 1 outside proficient speaker. 5 1/4 AW500TTblk it says it is a single stereo speaker. Please define.

Those are left overs from my first home, and I am a bt of a hoarder.

I also have multiple novo wall pads that operate zones. Can I incorporate all of these into a new system or are they too old or incompatible?

Or are these systems proprietary?

 

[Sherri]

I guess I should ask what the price of a good speaker is. I thought 400 was a decent number but I am starting to doubt that. I am definitely all for going for the better speaker and slowing down the timeline a bit if I will end up not regretting my choices.

 

[Sherri]

I pulled up the old contract of items that never made it to the house that the contractor intended

1 savant system
11 (eleven) sherbourn LDS 2/150b power amps
1 sirius sat receiver (On its way.. xmas special)
1 parasound z tuner
1 24 network switch
3 itach network to serial controllers
1 RTI RPS Master controller
2 RTI T2B RF remotes
1 RF antenna
1 degno blu ray
3 axis video camera servers

WH system
7 zones (I have expanded since then)
10-8" kitchen/livingroom/loft Definitive technology

5-4" merlot sonance (I am not interested in 4" or should I reconsider??) Bathrooms/bedroom

Outside Sonance Mariner 51.

In retrospect it looks like I was resistant to him due to his failings in other areas. The speakers look decent.


What I already have in the house

4 sonance subs in ceiling BPS-1 (I think..I can't find the manual, but it is about 30" long)

2-42" network boxes
Lutron homeworks
1 apple airport
1 mac mini (To be used as a hub for the savant HA)
1 apple tv
1 42" smart samsung (office)
1 55 " sony bravia
It is fully wired for racks (promised but never received) in the basement.
All leads run to where the HT will end up. I want epic sound in that room, but will not even be ready to think about it for years yet.

 

[Sherri]

I live rurally as well, so getting an installer isn't easy with so many jobs closer to their place of business. I have people come and tell me that they will go get supplies and just not return. That is in part why I have learned to do as much myself as possible. In that I have learned I can get creative.

I have my whole basement yet that is open underneath.


Should I go another route in the basement bedrooms speaker wise, discard the in wall or in ceiling thoughts? I have yet to design the rooms but in one I am looking at a wall that will house a murphy bed. I want to have standing cabinets on either side.. I could easily put the needed speakers into them.

I never thought of putting music in the laundry room.. but I see others have gone that route. Worth it? I guess it boils down to time spent, but this home is also our retirement fund and since I pull my own wire I can add lots of little items that I would have otherwise skipped due to cost.

I equate more with a better selling features.

Re: Basement bedrooms, kids are now all grown. They are only going to be for guests.. but they will have full access to the network audio file and all bedrooms will have Tvs.

Rooms are also well insulated to minimize sound bleed between rooms. I have a layer of plastic and OSB as well and pink insulation.

Speaking of creativity.. While writing this out I have decided I want to install headphone jacks beside the beds in the basement. That will be the best way to minimize sound bleed.

Is that possible?

Would I take that wire to the system components.. or??