Got a turntable and I don't get it.

[KEW]

I like vinyl for the process. Going through the handling, cleaning, and flipping engages me more in the music. It may be the nostalgia that I like, but I can say that while I used to spend most of my entertainment time watching movies/TV, I now spend most of it listening to vinyl. And I like that. So I guess for me a record that is being played sounds better than a CD that is sitting in its case.

I don't know if any research has been done on this, but I believe it is our nature as human beings to better enjoy something if we give it attention before we actually experience it. It is a matter of anticipation followed by realization. (I'm happy to say my GF understands this)

 

[markw]

I don't know if any research has been done on this, but I believe it is our nature as human beings to better enjoy something if we give it attention before we actually experience it. It is a matter of anticipation followed by realization. (I'm happy to say my GF understands this)

Are we talking turntables of foreplay here?

 

[KEW]

Are we talking turntables or foreplay here?

Yes

 

[3db]

Been wanting a turntable for a few years now. Finally picked up a Project debut carbon. Not sure after a few hours of listening to all new LP's that I get it. I really don't think so far that it sounds better. In fact I have to turn up my volume a bit more than from my CD source.
Do all new records require a cleaning straight out of the jacket? I am hearing pops and cracks just like I was a kid. With records costing twice sometimes over three times as much as a CD it doesn't seem worth it to me. I will hold on to the table but most likely will be spinning CD's and using my computer as a source.
Any thoughts out there?

The quality of recordings on vinyl is just as varied as it is on CD. You will come across both good and bad recordings. Today's CD (unless your into classical or jazz) are mastered for one thing and one thing only... to play loud leaving any resemblance of dynamics in the trash can. Don't get hung up on the fact that you may have to dial in a little more volume for vinyl than CD. That's not a bad thing.

I clean every album before play whether new or not. Clean the new ones as well is my advice to you. If you are hearing pops n cracks from a new record, the likely cause is static electricity. I have records that are over 30 years old that still play clean.

 

[markw]

Yes

The main difference is that playing records is a solo activity while sex, ... oh, never mind!

 

[3db]

The main difference is that playing records is a solo activity while sex, ... oh, never mind!

I dunno...

 

[highfigh]

Thanks. I just put another record on which is new and the volume is like a normal CD. Strange. My other LP's are from Steven Wilson which is known for his very high quality recordings.. No a bad sound, you just have to crank the volume up on them.

Wide dynamic range and high average signal level don't coexist when a format has an upper limit, which is as true now as it was before CDs overtook LPs. The difference is that most LPs were never limited to the extent that many CDs and digital formats are, now. LPs do have one limitation that CD/DVD/BD and digital files don't and that's due to inertia and momentum- if the signal level is too high, the turntable isn't adjusted correctly or it ha some kind of problem , the stylus can actually leave the groove. There's also the fact that the output voltage from all cartridges isn't the same.

Vinyl needs to be clean to avoid the clicks and pops, but it can sound really good. Not everyone likes the process required for listening to LPs.

 

[Rickster71]

Taking this argument to the other extreme, isn't it true that regardless of how you are listening to a recording it is not being reproduced without some change from the original intended recording? Whether it's being colored by the characteristics of your speakers, your room dynamics, DSP, etc., the recording will always sound different. So isn't it just a matter of degree? I imagine similar conversations were had when the record player replaced the gramophone.

I understand that vinyl does not top the list in terms of accurate reproduction. But a "true music lover" is not only a person that enjoys hearing music that is reproduced most closely to the original. Music elicits both an intellectual and emotional response. If certain qualities of a medium increase the emotional response then for some it is perhaps a better medium.

I agree... though music being colored by my room or speakers is still music.
Pops and hiss and click are not music.

 

[slipperybidness]

Pops and hiss and click are not music.

Obviously, you have never heard of Autechre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autechre

Or you can look for an online station called "Click-Hop"

Funny story, at one of my previous jobs the electronics tech was in his lab listening to some Click Hop and the manager comes in and starts searching around all the lab gear and gas regulators. He was "trying to figure out where that noise was coming from and what was broken".

 

[cpd]

I agree... though music being colored by my room or speakers is still music.
Pops and hiss and click are not music.

Fair enough - a matter of degree may not have been an accurate description.

 

[fuzz092888]

I have to say that I didn't get any hiss pops or clicks on any of the vinyl I purchased and played over the debut carbon or the new TT. Sounds just as good as CD/high quality mp3/wav/flac to my ears.

For me, in a time when everything is background music to something else, the act of playing a record forces me to slow down and be more engaged with the activity of listening to the music.

 

[3db]

I agree... though music being colored by my room or speakers is still music.
Pops and hiss and click are not music.

Neither is a series of notes played at a constant volume level without variation in amplitude or dynamics. I have 30 year old vinyl that still plays clean.

 

[Rickster71]

Neither is a series of notes played at a constant volume level without variation in amplitude or dynamics. I have 30 year old vinyl that still plays clean.

To put a finer point on this I'll rephrase it to say, "Pops, Clicks & Hiss aren't part of the original recorded content."

I have to reiterate, my 1st posting of my early disappointment in vinyl noise was just me reminiscing about my past experiences.
Anyone remember The DBX - Click Pop & Hiss Assassin?
https://books.google.com/books?id=kawCnk4051wC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=DBX+pop+and+hiss&source=bl&ots=YWrfSpYF9I&sig=vklvd3NENJ_kvEL7OkkLSbmKY4I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMI_P7whvKyyAIVwuuACh1APAtJ#v=onepage&q=DBX pop and hiss&f=false

 

[Montucky]

Vinyl needs to be clean to avoid the clicks and pops, but it can sound really good. Not everyone likes the process required for listening to LPs.

Precisely. For those of you who get tons of unwanted noise, you're likely doing it wrong. Every time I put a record on the platter, I give it a quick brushing, ensuring there's no dust. Takes just a few seconds. Not a big deal, but some people just don't like the extra involvement required with vinyl. Showing off some things like the super popular Miles Davis' Kind of Blue LP has blown friends and family away with its sound quality. Every single person has told me that they had no idea that vinyl could sound so amazing. No clicks, pops, hisses whatsoever on that one or most of my records. Just occasionally, on the old used ones that need a good cleaning.

FWIW, I'm using a U-Turn Orbit with the Grado Black cart. Cheap, but been outstanding for a moderately inexpensive, entry-level turntable. I've been VERY happy with the sound quality. Maybe some of you guys are rocking stuff like those cheap Crosleys you can buy at Wal-Mart?

 

[slipperybidness]

Precisely. For those of you who get tons of unwanted noise, you're likely doing it wrong. Every time I put a record on the platter, I give it a quick brushing, ensuring there's no dust. Takes just a few seconds. Not a big deal, but some people just don't like the extra involvement required with vinyl. Showing off some things like the super popular Miles Davis' Kind of Blue LP has blown friends and family away with its sound quality. Every single person has told me that they had no idea that vinyl could sound so amazing. No clicks, pops, hisses whatsoever on that one or most of my records. Just occasionally, on the old used ones that need a good cleaning.

FWIW, I'm using a U-Turn Orbit with the Grado Black cart. Cheap, but been outstanding for a moderately inexpensive, entry-level turntable. I've been VERY happy with the sound quality. Maybe some of you guys are rocking stuff like those cheap Crosleys you can buy at Wal-Mart?

Nobody on this site is rocking the Crosley, at least nobody that will admit to it

Yup, I got the Kind of Blue 180g vinyl for my birthday last year and it is freaking amazing vinyl!

 

[3db]

Nobody on this site is rocking the Crosley, at least nobody that will admit to it

Yup, I got the Kind of Blue 180g vinyl for my birthday last year and it is freaking amazing vinyl!

If its the same Crosley model I'm thinking about which is just a rebadged ProJect Debut, I think that would be a good starter table to get.

 

[highfigh]

Precisely. For those of you who get tons of unwanted noise, you're likely doing it wrong. Every time I put a record on the platter, I give it a quick brushing, ensuring there's no dust. Takes just a few seconds. Not a big deal, but some people just don't like the extra involvement required with vinyl. Showing off some things like the super popular Miles Davis' Kind of Blue LP has blown friends and family away with its sound quality. Every single person has told me that they had no idea that vinyl could sound so amazing. No clicks, pops, hisses whatsoever on that one or most of my records. Just occasionally, on the old used ones that need a good cleaning.

FWIW, I'm using a U-Turn Orbit with the Grado Black cart. Cheap, but been outstanding for a moderately inexpensive, entry-level turntable. I've been VERY happy with the sound quality. Maybe some of you guys are rocking stuff like those cheap Crosleys you can buy at Wal-Mart?

Someone at AVS was complaining that he had noise and sibilance from his new AT turntable with the AT-95e cartridge. First, I can't comment on the actual turntable because I haven't touched or heard one but I am very familiar with inexpensive cartridges and wouldn't consider that one for serious listening, regardless of the loving reviews I have read. It lists for $70- that's just not going to be great. He also used dish soap and tap water to clean the records and he lives in the SW part of the US. I have friends on PHX- if he's near that area, he has fine grit in the grooves and I don't know anyone who drinks tap water without using a reverse osmosis system.

In my experience, clean vinyl and stylus & proper adjustment make a difference WRT surface noise, not the price of the equipment. Rumble and feedback are definitely to be blamed on the build quality.

 

[highfigh]

If its the same Crosley model I'm thinking about which is just a rebadged ProJect Debut, I think that would be a good starter table to get.

That model is a pretty stark contrast to the rest of their lineup.

 

[3db]

That model is a pretty stark contrast to the rest of their lineup.

They offer three turntable models that maybe worth considering

1. C10 for $399 which is the ProJect knock off
2. C100 for $199 which looks mostly plastic
3. CR6009A for $179 which looks better than the C100 but is $20 cheaper so what is missing?

Out of those three, the start C10 seems to be the most solid built of the three.

 

[KEW]

The main difference is that playing records is a solo activity while sex, ... oh, never mind!

No worries! I understand. It must be difficult to remember for an old man like you!

(ducking and running for cover!)