Good sound in a simple way

[norchek]

If I understood you right about the 4 or 8 ohm speakers...
Your advice is that for my use of the sistem, wishes for the sound, that it produces a good quality sound even in low volume and the size of the room, a good 4ohm speakers, would do just fine, and of course an amp that has a good power for 4ohm - for example Denon PMA 700 or Yamaha ax model.
Am I right?

Because 8 ohm speaker needs a powerfull amp than PMA 700, and more power means more money Cause Denon 1500 is two times expensive than 700, and thats too much for me.
And B&W 601 needs a amp like 1500.
Or is it possible for B&W 601 to sound nice on PMA 700?
Is any other model or brand in this price range and 4 ohm speaker better choice?

And tell me, the 8ohm speakers provide much more power for higer volume, or they provide a better quality for lower volume as well, than 4ohm speakers. Of course it depends what amp do you have, but overall, and for an model like 700?

Zumbo in your line where you are saying:
The only problem I have with the B&W is 8ohm. You are looking at equipment that is 4ohm stable. That means, if connected to a 4ohm speaker, the amp will try to double it's power.

Did you mean - if connected to a 8ohm speaker the amp will try to double it's power? Or is 4ohm right?
Cause I dont quite get this sentence, if you are talking about 4ohm.
The amp will try to double it's power on 4ohm speakers?

Thanks for your explanation and advice on the brands.

Seth=L
Yes the sales man was kind of suspicious he only showed me an old Denon 455, the new one I found it myself, gave me a catalogue and thats about it.
But now that I know what to look for and what I need, it is going to be my way in showing amps and speakers

Thank you all for help and I will know much about everything on monday when I am going to the local store to see what can I get and so on...
So, I will tell you more then.
Thanks

 

[zumbo]

An amp will try to double it's power when connected to a 4ohm speaker. This means, you can save some on the amp going with a lower model amp.

Or, you can spend more on the amp, and get the lower cost speakers.

Let's look at the Yamaha AX 497.
2x120@4ohm (connected to a 4ohm speaker)
2x85@8ohm (connected to a 8ohm speaker)

The Denon 700 doesn't give a 8ohm spec, but I would guess it's about 65W. That will be fine, but not ideal.

I would check the prices on the Yamaha equipment. Even the 397 has more power than the Denon 700.

Again, the B&W's are a great speaker(I love em). I am just looking for a way to cheat, and save you a little money. If you decide on B&W, get the 602's. They are well worth the added cost of $150USD(retail) for the pair.

Even a 6ohm speaker, such as Monitor Audio, will allow more current to flow through to get more from your amp.

 

[zumbo]

If you are dead set on B&W, let me say this.

I would get the 601's with a better amp before I got the 602's with a weaker amp.

I would get the Yamaha with the B&W, even if they came from two different places. Don't think you have to buy everything from one dealer.

The ideal solution, if going with B&W, would be to get the 602's with the better(more powerful) amp as well.

1) Yamaha 497 & B&W 602's
2) Yamaha 497 & B&W 601's
3) Yamaha 397 & B&W 602's
4) Yamaha 397 & B&W 601's
5) Denon 700 & B&W 602's
6) Denon 700 & B&W 601's

Any of the above combinations will be great. This is all top quality stuff. If the 397 is more than 25euro over the 700, the 700 would be a better deal. If any of the Yamaha equipment is less than the Denon, it is certainly the better deal.

 

[norchek]

Thaks for the solutions for the amp and speakers.
I know that I don't have to buy everything from one dealer.

But I found out that the B&W 601's have a little too large price. They cost the same as HK3380 thats about 500$. At this point I dont have that much money for the amp like Denon 700 and B&W 601.
So a possibility is that I wait a while, to get some money.
Or to go for a solution like these:

1) Denon PMA 700 & cheaper speakers maybe B&W 303 or B&W 600
2) Denon PMA 500 (dont know about this model that much, but it is almost half cheaper than 700) & speakers B&W 601 (if they go with that kind of model of amp like 500)

For Yamaha I kind of don't like it, well I think I dont need that kind of power and the AX-497 is the same price as Denon 700 - like the 700 a bit more, for the looks and that
I am looking for good sound in lower volumes, I doubt if I will ever go on the volume higher than a half... So what about B&W 303 or B&W 600 in that kind of use. Well I can still wait a while and get 601.
For other brands of speakers I dont know what to get, honestly - I really like B&W brand. But are the models like 600 or 303 as near good for me as 601? Cause the difference in price is quite a lot.

I'll tell you more tomorow, when I am going to the stores, to find out about the price and possibility for any discounts. And of course to listen amps and speakers if they have them in store, cause I doubt that he will order them for me just to listen.

Again thanks a lot for the help.

 

[zumbo]

You said the Yamaha 497 is the same price as the Denon 700.

The Yamaha is 120W @ 4ohm/ 85W @ 8ohm
The Denon is 85W @ 4ohm/ --W @ 8ohm. (not listed)

And you want the Denon because of the way it looks? Are you going to look at it, or listen to it? The above decision is a no brainer.

B&W makes some of the finest speakers in the world. However, they are not the best deal around. Actually, there are many other fantastic brands at a fraction of the cost. There is no need what-so-ever to get the B&W name in a lower level speaker, when you can get a higher level speaker from another brand. You are on the verge of getting a nice little system, but for some reason, you are going to end-up with one that su(ks.

Is option # 4 in post # 23 not in your budget?
Yamaha AX 397 with B&W 601.

As I said in the other post, even the 397 is a better choice than the Denon 700.( If the cost is lower)

 

[norchek]

I know that I am not going to look the amp and that stuf. I just thought about that, because a lot of information hit me about the amps, so many people I talked to, and so many opinions I got. Which is not a bad thing, but I just have to think on my own way.
And it really wasnt a good statement about he looks.

But I still dont know one thing. Does the bigger power of amp (W) means that there is a better quality of the sound?

The difference in price betwen 397 and 497 is not big. So I am going for 497.
For the speakers I will wait a while.

But found model B&W 601 Series 2 used for two years by an man age about 40, very nice man, when I talked to him on the phone. And he is selling them for half of the price than the new one 601 series 3.
What about used speakers, can this be a good choice?

Thanks again, and sorry for the out of line statement about the looks.

 

[zumbo]

No need to be sorry. My reply looks rude. Don't mean to be rude. It's passion.

The 497 is the best move. Anything below 100W is not the best idea for high-end speakers. Most people on here shoot for at least 200w. That can get expensive, especially for a starter system. My amp (seperate) is 125W @ 8ohm, and 175w @ 4ohm. I use 4ohm speakers, so I get the most out of my amp. The speakers could still take more. High quality speakers love power.

Now, about used speakers. It's just not for me. Might be a great deal. But, just not for me.

It looks as though your Denon dealer is the one with B&W. What does the Yamaha dealer offer? Nothing you liked?

 

[norchek]

I'm not for used speakers either, but asked just to get shure.

The Yamaha dealer offered me Dali speakers.
http://www.dali.dk/uk/

Don't know anything about them. You?

So you think that I should look for 4ohm speakers?
In that case, what could be a good choice, for a price like B&W 600 or B&W 303.

Thanks

 

[f0am]

I wouldn't go with anything smaller then the 600 series. I am currently running the DM 603 S3's. I have demoed the 600 S3 series and they sound great.
I would save up your money and wait on the speakers.
Speakers are one of the component's on your system that doesn't truely become outdated.

 

[norchek]

I wouldn't go with anything smaller then the 600 series. I am currently running the DM 603 S3's. I have demoed the 600 S3 series and they sound great.
I would save up your money and wait on the speakers.
Speakers are one of the component's on your system that doesn't truely become outdated.

So you think that the model DM600 S3 would do good for my acid jazz, jazz, soul, r&b, kinda soft music...
Cause someone said to me, that Dali speakers are flexible, soft type of a speaker, meaning for a kind of music that I listen. And the B&W are more hard speakers, for music like rock, quitar rock, and stuff like that...

Well the salles man for Dali recommend me model Ikon 2 http://www.dali.dk/uk/page288.aspx?sub=297&prod=465

But I said that they are too expensive for me, and then he showed me Ikon 1
http://www.dali.dk/uk/page288.aspx?sub=297&prod=464
and 20% discount. With discount Ikon1's are the same price as B&W 601 (without discount, so hoping to get some on them)
Well for both I should wait a while. But for B&W 600 I could go in short time.

So I am betwen Dali and B&W.

And oh he could gave me a discount on HK3380 (for this a should wait a while), so the price is a bit higer than the Denon PMA 700, which I am going for...
So betwen those two amps as well

Thanks again. And have a nice day

 

[Tod]

Just to throw one other option in, without any personal knowledge of how they actually sound, Wharfedale makes a few models of affordable 4 ohm bookshelf speakers. Cheaper than B&W, well-reviewed by people on like Amazon, but I've got no idea really. Can you get/audition them?

 

[Nick250]

So you think that the model DM600 S3 would do good for my acid jazz, jazz, soul, r&b, kinda soft music...
Cause someone said to me, that Dali speakers are flexible, soft type of a speaker, meaning for a kind of music that I listen. And the B&W are more hard speakers, for music like rock, quitar rock, and stuff like that...

Well the salles man for Dali recommend me model Ikon 2 http://www.dali.dk/uk/page288.aspx?sub=297&prod=465

But I said that they are too expensive for me, and then he showed me Ikon 1
http://www.dali.dk/uk/page288.aspx?sub=297&prod=464
and 20% discount. With discount Ikon1's are the same price as B&W 601 (without discount, so hoping to get some on them)
Well for both I should wait a while. But for B&W 600 I could go in short time.

So I am betwen Dali and B&W.

And oh he could gave me a discount on HK3380 (for this a should wait a while), so the price is a bit higer than the Denon PMA 700, which I am going for...
So betwen those two amps as well

Thanks again. And have a nice day

Forget about the price difference for a moment, what do your ears tell you?

Nick

 

[norchek]

Forget about the price difference for a moment, what do your ears tell you?

Nick

My ears only heard a little bit of Dali. B&W they have to order, so for now didn't had a chance to hear them.

 

[f0am]

So you think that the model DM600 S3 would do good for my acid jazz, jazz, soul, r&b, kinda soft music...
Cause someone said to me, that Dali speakers are flexible, soft type of a speaker, meaning for a kind of music that I listen. And the B&W are more hard speakers, for music like rock, quitar rock, and stuff like that...

Well the salles man for Dali recommend me model Ikon 2 http://www.dali.dk/uk/page288.aspx?sub=297&prod=465

But I said that they are too expensive for me, and then he showed me Ikon 1
http://www.dali.dk/uk/page288.aspx?sub=297&prod=464
and 20% discount. With discount Ikon1's are the same price as B&W 601 (without discount, so hoping to get some on them)
Well for both I should wait a while. But for B&W 600 I could go in short time.

So I am betwen Dali and B&W.

And oh he could gave me a discount on HK3380 (for this a should wait a while), so the price is a bit higer than the Denon PMA 700, which I am going for...
So betwen those two amps as well

Thanks again. And have a nice day

When I demoed my speakers I listened to some Martin Logans as well, they sounded amazing. But I didn't have the money for them so I went with the B&W's.
I am perfect happy with my purchase. I listen to mainly JAZZ on my speakers. So when I read your reply that the sales person told you these speakers were better suited for rock. My jaw dropped.
After upgrading to my 603's I heard things in songs I never heard before. I find them to be bright and vibrant, perfect for my Jazz selection.
My 603's are my first entry level high end speaker. Ive had Cantons, Jamo's, and KLH before these. Its a completely different world.

Bring some of your own music to the shop and listen to it on their system. Make sure to spend time listening to different songs that you enjoy. See if you can hear things that you never heard before. See if horns, pianos, you name it sound different on different speakers. Go with what you think sounds best.

 

[norchek]

So finally bought amplifier and two speakers.
Amp is Cambridge audio 540 v.2 and speakers Kef Q1 (got 20% discount).
Nothing more to say than just fantastic.
Thanks for your help (although nobody said anything about this combination, but anyway, thanks)
Enjoy the music

 

[no. 5]

So finally bought amplifier and two speakers.
Amp is Cambridge audio 540 v.2 and speakers Kef Q1 (got 20% discount).
Nothing more to say than just fantastic.
Thanks for your help (although nobody said anything about this combination, but anyway, thanks)
Enjoy the music

nice set-up!
especially the iQ1's , if you ever listen to any classical music, the DVD-A of Beethoven symphony 5 conducted by Daniel Barenboim sounds pretty good on them.

 

[Davemcc]

So finally bought amplifier and two speakers.
Amp is Cambridge audio 540 v.2 and speakers Kef Q1 (got 20% discount).
Nothing more to say than just fantastic.
Thanks for your help (although nobody said anything about this combination, but anyway, thanks)
Enjoy the music

Boy this took me by surprise. I read the whole thread and then BAM, the final result looks like a great little system that wasn't even mentioned. I'm sure you will be very happy.

 

[norchek]

Boy this took me by surprise. I read the whole thread and then BAM, the final result looks like a great little system that wasn't even mentioned. I'm sure you will be very happy.

Yes thanks. I'm very happy.