Good sound in a simple way

[norchek]

Hello everyone,

I'm buying a sistem only for music, no movies, no home cinema or somethnig like that. And i want it to be simple, i am not planing to adjust settings for every cd or to have a numerous setting, simple but very good. I allready have a cd player pioneer, now I need an amplifier and speakers.
Does amplifier provide better sound for music than a stereo receiver (in price range of Pioneer VSX-516, cause i am not plannig to spend a lot of money)
Can I connect woofer to amplifier to have a 2.1 sound? Or it is not necessary to have a woofer to provied a better sound?
And how does an amplifier like Pioneer A-307R work for my use of it, only for music?
And what kind of speakers are good to provide quality sound.
And later I am planing to buy an stereo turntable, for an old organic sound. (I was looking something like Pioneer PL-990)
I really would like to have a good sound in my room, but for an affordable price.
And I am new in this. So I would be very grateful if you could give me some adivce, about it.

As you can see I mentioned Pioneer, cause i kind of like their stuff, and I think it is kind of good for an affordable price.

Thank you for your advice.

Have a nice day

 

[j_garcia]

That pioneer looks like it is an integrated amp and it should work for what you are looking for. The bad news is, most integrated amps do not have an output for a sub, though if you get a sub that has speaker level inputs, you can get it to work without much trouble.

 

[zumbo]

H/K receiver with plenty of power, and a sub-out.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3964198#productTabPhotos

Let us know how much you have to spend for speakers.
Will the budget be for one pair, or one pair and a sub?
Describe what kind of sound you are looking for.
What kind of music you like.
How loud you like it.

Remember, a fullrange set of speakers with large woofers will use-up the receivers power.

A set of speakers dedicated to mids and highs using the receivers power, along with a powered sub, will have a higher quality sound. In most cases, this option will cost more.

 

[markw]

First off, decide on your main speakers. They will determine the amplifier you will need to drive them.

Virtually any subwoofer can be made to match virtually any speaker system. Speaker level inputs on a subwoofer (as well as line leven ins/outs) are useful here.

An integrated amp (or receiver) with preamp outs and main in jacks is an ideal solution, although you can easily get by with just pre outs for a subwoofer.

 

[j_garcia]

The Onkyo and H/K stereo receivers have a sub out, but there is no crossover in the receiver, so other than connection method, it isn't buying you much - it is almost the same as using a preamp out from an integrated or other receiver. I'd choose a good integrated over a stereo receiver nearly every time, unless you need an FM tuner.

 

[zumbo]

The Onkyo and H/K stereo receivers have a sub out, but there is no crossover in the receiver, so other than connection method, it isn't buying you much - it is almost the same as using a preamp out from an integrated or other receiver. I'd choose a good integrated over a stereo receiver nearly every time, unless you need an FM tuner.

Sub pre-out that is fullrange. But, but, but, people praise H/K.
Oops. My bad.

 

[j_garcia]

Not just H/K, I think most or all stereo receivers are like that. The only one I know of on the market currently that actually has a selectable x-over for the sub preout is the Outlaw RR-2150.

 

[markw]

Most subs with a line level input offer adjustments.

So, that "full range subwoofer output" is still useful if you adjust the crossover on the sub and look at is as a low pass filter.

Of course, if he feeds it to the sub's "LFE"" input, all bets are off...

 

[j_garcia]

So, that "full range subwoofer output" is still useful if you adjust the crossover on the sub and look at is as a low pass filter.

Yep, other than the Outlaw, to use a sub whether via a pre-out, sub pre-out or speaker level, you will need to dial the sub's x-over in manually to blend it with your mains. Just something to be aware of. One of the reasons why I don't use a sub in my bedroom setup.

 

[zumbo]

So, what to do about the mains? Bass blockers?

 

[norchek]

H/K receiver with plenty of power, and a sub-out.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3964198#productTabPhotos

Let us know how much you have to spend for speakers.
Will the budget be for one pair, or one pair and a sub?
Describe what kind of sound you are looking for.
What kind of music you like.
How loud you like it.

Remember, a fullrange set of speakers with large woofers will use-up the receivers power.

A set of speakers dedicated to mids and highs using the receivers power, along with a powered sub, will have a higher quality sound. In most cases, this option will cost more.

First of all I would like to thank for your suggestions!

About money, is a bit difficult to talk. Because I am from Slovenia (next to Italy - in Europe) and prices here are much higer. For HARMAN KARDON HK3380 I would pay here 530$ thats about 397 € (euros), and this is without any discount. Thats almost three times expensive, than your price $197.
So it is kind of hard to compare it with prices, and if I say that I am prepared to spend 530$ for an receiver, I would probably get a better one in America, than here - unfortunately...

For speakers, I am thinking about a pair of them and maybe to buy sub latter on, because of the money. I rather buy expensive speakers, but good quality, then save some money, and then buy a sub. What do you think about that?
But I think a set of speakers dedicated to mids and highs without a sub, just wont provide a good sound... So a sub must come with speakers
But would only two good speakers without a sub, provide a nice sound too?

Cause I dont like music to be loud, to the level that i can feel it, and still kind of talk to people in the room, to an higer volume a wont go...
Lets say that I am looking for a quality sound, i like to hear details in music, a clean sound...
My range of music is quite big, from listenable jazz, acid jazz, funk, soul, r&b, more of an organic sound, and some indie acustic rock... From time to time I like to groove to Lazy dog compilation, deep house vibe, with jazz and soul elements.
Favorite artists -Erykah Badu, Donald Byrd, Jamiroquai, Feist, Kings of Convenience, Tracy Chapman...

I hope that the differences in prices wont be an obstacle to your advice.
And the more I look the HK3380 the more I like it, it is definitively what I am looking for, but in our price is a bit more expensive that i can afford. Cuse then I dont have enough for good speakers.
Is there something like that, but a bit cheaper, and maybe without radio I don't need it, so maybe I could save some too, on that.
If I could buy in your country, I wont be having problems like this

Thank you again for your help,

Grettings from Slovenia,
By

 

[zumbo]

How are the prices on the AX models from Yamaha?

AX-397
AX-497
AX-596

Top quality stuff. All are 4-ohm stable. Which means, you can really get some power from them using 4-ohm speakers.

http://www.yamaha-online.de/index.php?lang=e&country=DE&idcat1=2

 

[Seth=L]

How are the prices on the AX models from Yamaha?

AX-397
AX-497
AX-596

Top quality stuff. All are 4-ohm stable. Which means, you can really get some power from them using 4-ohm speakers.

http://www.yamaha-online.de/index.php?lang=e&country=DE&idcat1=2

Yamaha kicks @ss. Any in Zumbo's post above would be great for what you would need.

 

[norchek]

How are the prices on the AX models from Yamaha?

AX-397
AX-497
AX-596

Top quality stuff. All are 4-ohm stable. Which means, you can really get some power from them using 4-ohm speakers.

http://www.yamaha-online.de/index.php?lang=e&country=DE&idcat1=2

The AX-596 is almost the same price as HK3380. But they dont have AX-497 or AX-397, they would probably have to order them, but I think that the price of these two would be acceptable for me.

I was in store yesterday and the man recommended me Denon DRA-455, but the I looked more of Denon and found new model DRA-500AE, which is the same price, and I think it is better. The price is exactly what I am preparing to spend.
And then he said, when I asked him about Yamaha, that they had Yamaha for long time, they only had Yamaha, but latter on they started to do some tests, and Denon proved much better, and from then on they are only selling Denon.
I dont know about these things that much, so I cannot comment it...

For the speakers he recommended me Jamo E825. Dont know much about them.
But the price is for a few euros to high. Well maybe I would go for them, if they are really worth of the price.

Thank you for your commnents.

And oh i forgot to mention that my room is 20 square meters big, thats about 215 square feet. I dont know if these plays any part in this, but he asked me how big my room is.

 

[jcPanny]

Stereo receiver

Since the HK is so expensive over there, you might consider picking up a vintage receivers from a thrift store or pawn shop and spending most of your funds on the speakers. I am not sure what speaker brands are available, but the B&W 6 series might be a good option. If you go with a receiver or integreated amp without a sub line level output, you will need a sub with speaker level inputs.

 

[zumbo]

The 500AE looks like a solid unit. As far as the Yamaha/Denon situation, it comes down to features and price for me. Either brand is my top pick.

I would pick the 497 or 397 over either of those Denons, and the 596 is top dawg!
The 596 will produce 155w x 2@4ohms.(integrated amp)
The 497 will produce 120w x 2@4ohms.(integrated amp)
The 397 will produce 95W x 2@4ohms.(integrated amp)
The 500AE will produce 95W x 2@4ohms.(receiver)
Don't get the 455.

I wouldn't get Jamo(Yamo)
Can you get MB Quart there? They are 6ohm(VERA) or 4ohm(ALEXXA)(QLS), and will get the most out of any of the above units.

(EDIT:These look to be aroung 1500 euros/each)These are super sweet. They go down to 35Hz: http://www.mbquart.de/en/produkte/home/vera/produkt.php?nr=vs_1_b#

http://www.audioholics.com/ces/ces2004/CES_2004_day3f.html

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/mbquart_vera_vs1f.htm

http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/904mbquart/

Found some Alexxa prices. 380 euro for the bookshelf. 680 euro for the floorstanders. I am sure that is each.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.digital-world.de/news/audio/lautsprecher/1253597/index.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=4&ct=result&prev=/search?q=MB+Quart+alexxa&start=10&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-25,GGLG:en&sa=N

http://www.mbquart.de/en/produkte/home/alexxa/

 

[norchek]

Thank you for your comment. It is really helping me, with the decision.

So now I know that I am buying an integrated amp. Dont need a radio. And I think it should provide a better sound.
And I stoped thinking about a sub, I think that my room isnt that big that I shoul need a sub, and that good bookshelf speakers are good enough for me.
I like the B&W 6 series, I could get 601 for about 200 EUR thats nice price for me.
The MB Quart will be hard to get here, I must go to the store to ask them if they can order them. I will go on monday and ask them about amps, what can i get, and about speakers. Now that I really now what to look for.
So the amp brands to look for is Yamaha, Denon, and what about Pioneer in this price range.
Oh, saw the Denon PMA 500, but I think that PMA 700 would be afordable, cause PMA 700 is the same price as the reciever 500AE, and that kind of money thats 300 EUR I am preparing to spend for an amp. So what about PMA 700, or something like that.

So to sumerize, one amp for about 300 EUR and two bookshelf speakers for about 250 EUR.

Again thank you for your advice and time.

 

[Seth=L]

And then he said, when I asked him about Yamaha, that they had Yamaha for long time, they only had Yamaha, but latter on they started to do some tests, and Denon proved much better, and from then on they are only selling Denon.
I dont know about these things that much, so I cannot comment it...

Denon holds no clear advantage over Yamaha or visa-versa. What the salesman told you is what they want you to think so you will buy the stuff from their store. Anytime you go to a store and they tell you the brand they carry is superior to another brand they don't have you must be cautious of the salesman, they are decietful and only wish to make a sale in many cases.

 

[zumbo]

Now, those Denon products are on par with the Yamaha. So, on a euro for euro basis, get the most powerful Yamaha AX or Denon PMA you can afford. The 700 is not going to be enough. You, at least need the 1500 for a pair of 8ohm speakers(IMO).

The B&W's will be a great choice. The 602(bookshelf model) are only a little more than the 601's. I would shoot for a out-the-door deal on them.

The only problem I have with the B&W is 8ohm. You are looking at equipment that is 4ohm stable. That means, if connected to a 4ohm speaker, the amp will try to double it's power. And, B&W can take plenty of power. The more, the better. So, while B&W's are a great choice, you can get more from the equipment you are looking at with a 4ohm speaker.

Another way of looking at it is this: You can spend more for a better speaker that is 4ohm, and less for the amp because you can step down a model. Not that every 4ohm speaker is better, but you get my point?

You are doing very good with your research. You will be glad you did when you are done. Here is a link to another one of my favorite brands.

http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/

Again, it all comes down to price. Get the best you can get for your money. If you can get a better deal on B&W vs Quart, then do so. If you can get a better deal on Monitor Audio vs B&W, then do so. Those are my top picks in this pricerange.

 

[Nick250]

I would second the 602's over the 601's, especially since you are not going to get a sub. Listen for yourself, but I found the 602's to have a fuller and more robust sound. It uses the bigger driver found on some of the tower 600 series speakers.

Nick