Good quality 50 W/CH 7.2/9.2 AVR ?

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Pinder7

Audiophyte
Hello Folks, I am a passionate HT (Movies, music, sports, Netflix et al) hobbyist. I am looking for advice to buy a new 7.2 or 9.2 Receiver which will be used for a dedicated HT room ( 15'X10'X9'(ht) feet). This room is acoustically treated for minimizing reflections from the walls and roof. I have 20 year old JBL Studio S310 floor standing speakers as front L&R and S38s as surrounds. These are rated (by JBL) at 91 and 89 db sensitivity respectively. There is a matching JBL center speaker and two smaller JBL backs (not from the same series). I am happy with the speakers and do not wish to change them. I will be replacing the Onkyo 608 (eight year old) as it does not have 4K pass through and Atmos. I just bought a new Epson TW9400 projector. I have 100” screen and the two main seating positions are approx 08 feet from the front speakers. I am really confused about the following aspects. A) How much power do I really need? According to calculations on sites recommended on this forum I should be OK with 25 Watts per channel? The receiver must be as good with music as movies. What about new software driven goodies like various surround virtualization options? If I plan to set up two/ four height speakers, do I need this? And since my Epson has excellent video up scaling do I need that in my receiver? Finally, I would not want to change this setup for another 5-7 years. SO, my question to the learned folks here is that – am I ok in assuming a 50 Watt (8 Ohm, 2 Ch driven) receiver with no up scaling and no phantom surround features will be fine for my requirement? And, if so, which is the best receiver for my requirement in the USD 1000 budget. I am really looking for an upgrade in sound quality and not volume. Am I wrong in believing that for seeking higher quality sound I will be forced to buy much larger amp output and 4K up scaling and many other unneeded bells and whistles? What are my real world options? I auditioned the Marantz 1710 but didn't sound like an upgrade over my current setup? Is there a quality 50 W/ CH 9.2 Receiver out there? Sorry for the long post and thanks a lot in advance!!!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Giving up a few watts nor features really saves any money particularly, nor dictates sound quality particularly, they come pretty feature packed for the most part, sounds like many would fulfill your needs. If you can get something on closeout you might not get all the latest features and save some money, or buy refurb models (accessories4less.com is a dealer of both). Sound quality differs mostly in the different dsp applications more than anything else. Find an avr with the combo of features, connectivity and price you like. I think video upscaling is nice for old legacy stuff, but if your projector can handle that, I have yet to find a use for a video section of any of my avrs, I just turn it off. For $1000 you can do quite well I think. I'd look for Denon X3400/3500/3600 or x4400/4500 models. How did you "audition" the Marantz or compare it to anything?

Your speakers are relatively sensitive so don't need a lot of amp power especially as you're relatively close. You can use an spl calculator to get an idea of your needs for power.

I see a new Denon 3500 on Amazon for $600 assuming you're in the US. Check out the various Denon refurbs available at A4L.
 
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Pinder7

Audiophyte
Thanks for your response. I'm located in India. The govt here charges a 28% GST on AVRs. Therefore I had kept a budget of INR 100000 which is roughly equivalent to USD 1000. AVRs rarely go on sale here but the prices do drop by 20-30 % when new models arrive.
The local dealer here is a multi brand shop and he let me have the 1710 for a day last Sunday. A person had come along to do the set up and I could play around with it for about 4-5 hours in my HT. I played some of my favorite bluerays and high rez music from a USB drive etc but cannot say i found the sound too exciting over my 608.

I spoke to the dealer after I saw your post and he is recommending Pioneer LX 304 over the Denon 3600 stating that it has better amplifiers (what ever that means). Both are available at similar price point. Would love to hear from people who have the 304.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If your speakers only need 50 Watts, then any 7.2/9/2 AVR will work. :D

Just get the AVR with the features you want (4K video, Atmos audio) and the price you are willing to pay.

Yamaha might have the best reliability. Sony might have the 2nd best reliability. But who truly knows and Denon and Marantz might last 30 years as long as it's not a Denon AVP-A1HDCI. Haha. :D
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I spoke to the dealer after I saw your post and he is recommending Pioneer LX 304 over the Denon 3600 stating that it has better amplifiers (what ever that means). Both are available at similar price point. Would love to hear from people who have the 304.
You can't trust dealer reps in general, and I think you know the reasons already. I have not heard the Pioneer, but I have the ARX-X3400H for almost two weeks and assuming the X3500H and X3600H have the same amplifier sections (except the 3600 has two more amp channels), I would definitely recommend it over the 504 based on specs and measurements of the 303.

How did you get the info that you only need 25 WPC?
From my quick calculations, 25 W will get you the 105 dB THX ref peak SPL only if you sit 2 meters from the speakers, the speakers are near a wall (to get 3 dB room gain), and counting two speakers playing simultaneously (+3 dB per additional speaker).

If you sit further, and expect each speaker to be capable of achieving THX ref peak 105 dB, 25 W won't do it. Mind you THX ref level is way too loud for a lot of people, imagine how loud it was the last time you watch an action movie in a good cinema.

At you budget, I think the Denon is your best bet. The Pioneer is good too (based on specs) if you are sure you won't need 11 channel processing (that the Denon AVR-X3600H is capable of).
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Mind you THX ref level is way too loud for a lot of people, imagine how loud it was the last time you watch an action movie in a good cinema.
Last time I went to a THX cinema (one of the Star Wars movies),I had to cover my ears and leave the room. That was the last time I ever wanted to go to a THX cinema. :D
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks for your response. I'm located in India. The govt here charges a 28% GST on AVRs. Therefore I had kept a budget of INR 100000 which is roughly equivalent to USD 1000. AVRs rarely go on sale here but the prices do drop by 20-30 % when new models arrive.
The local dealer here is a multi brand shop and he let me have the 1710 for a day last Sunday. A person had come along to do the set up and I could play around with it for about 4-5 hours in my HT. I played some of my favorite bluerays and high rez music from a USB drive etc but cannot say i found the sound too exciting over my 608.

I spoke to the dealer after I saw your post and he is recommending Pioneer LX 304 over the Denon 3600 stating that it has better amplifiers (what ever that means). Both are available at similar price point. Would love to hear from people who have the 304.
This is a US based forum for the most part, so unless you indicate your location up front, you may not get relevant suggestions. Your prices/choices will be quite a bit different and really hard for us to anticipate your tax situation (it even varies state to state in the US).

You seem to expect significant differences in what's a fairly mature technology, i.e. an avr. They're more similar than different, except for the features/connectivity and their own flavor of DSP/REQ. The quality of the amps are reasonable for most uses, and vary a bit with power ratings altho the Marantz slimlines tend to be on the low side of the power spectrum. Hard to properly compare two units, too. Not sure what "excitement" you were expecting, that could be merely your expectations at play.

I don't take recommendations from audio sales people generally. They usually have their own reasons for pushing a particular product, altho its possible to get a good one I suppose who has only your interests at heart....have him explain the differences in amp as to why the Pioneer is better and get back to us :). The Pioneer may employ class D amps, but if executed well should be seamless compared to the class AB amps in most others. A few differences I notice the Pioneer 304 lacks compared to the Denon 3600 is a full set of pre-outs, which may or may not be interesting depending on whether you want the option of using external amplification; I'd also say the REQ software in the Denon's AudysseyXT32/SubEQ is superior to the MCACC in the Pioneer, particularly for subs (the Denon can separately adjust level/delay for two subs, the Pioneer doesn't), and much better than your current unit's Audyssey 2EQ.

You could also perhaps just continue to use your current avr and bluray player for 4k video to display and audio to avr, if your bluray player allows such, until such time as you have your Atmos speakers installed....
 
P

Pinder7

Audiophyte
Hello loveinthehd,
thanks again for your response.
Its really good to know that I can decide to buy any AVR as long as it has 9.1 terminals , about 100 watts of power per channel. Denon is really popular on these forums and I guess the main reason is the AudysseyXT32 and I should be willing to pay a premium for this. I visited another dealer and he recommended the Onkyo NR797 and offered to trade in my old 608 for 2O% discount. That looks attractive as I'm familiar with the GUI. Will take a call this week.
My next question is about Atmos - should I implement 7.1.2 or 5.1.4 - I will be using ceiling mount speakers. Looking forward to insights and recommendations from folks who have played around with both setups. Thanks.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Some of the avrs with pre-outs can handle more than 9 speaker channels too (my older Denon 4520 can do processing for up to 11.1 with the addition of an external amp, but only has 9 amps on-board). 100wpc is a reasonable power level for most purposes. I've not gone Atmos myself as ceiling installation is too involved at the moment, but I see many recommendations for a 5.1.4 format over 7.1.2 (altho in a larger room believe 7.1.4 or more would be interesting). Good luck!
 
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