Getting back into it

[Alex2507]

Ok Ok ... just bought a pair of B2030Ps from Amazon ($129 for the pair). Should receive it in 5 - 7 days!

You're really going to need something like this to fill in the bottom end. May as well get this one. Beat him up on the price or the shipping or just beat him up.

Now you still have a couple of bucks for wire and cable from monoprice in your budget.

 

[lsiberian]

You're really going to need something like this to fill in the bottom end. May as well get this one. Beat him up on the price or the shipping or just beat him up.

Now you still have a couple of bucks for wire and cable from monoprice in your budget.

I pulled it, but you don't happen to be in the DFW area do you?

 

[Alex2507]

I pulled it ...

... nah, I got better stuff to do ...

Don't you need funds and motivation to DIY?

 

[endbegin]

So the pair of B2030Ps arrived yesterday, hooked them up to the Denon AVR1609, and played some songs from my music player (Cowon D2 connected to AUX input).

My initial impression was that the speakers were very sharp on the highs which doesn't bother me too much, and I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of bass I got. However, I was disappointed by the "punch" in the mid-range, and the performance of the vocals. I expected some more "kick" on beats or drum segments of songs, but it was a little too muffled. Also, the vocals sounded too "airy" and light even when the performer's voice is strong and should "carry" more.

Tried playing around with the settings on the Denon, but it didn't seem to make a difference. Currently, the speakers are placed in a room (probably 12' x 14') on side tables with roughly 3 feet of clearance from the back wall and there is very little furniture in there.

Guess I am wondering if this is how this speaker usually sounds, or I am missing something?

The Denon can allow for another pair of speakers to be connected like in a listening test, so I could order a pair of TSC TSBLs for demo purposes ...

Although the sounds that come out of the speakers seem to be very clean and unforgiving, which I do like, I am a little underwhelmed overall.

Any feedback would be welcome.

 

[DJ in TX]

I am biased as I recently chose these for my own system...but I would definitely add the Paradigm Atoms v.6 to your list (MSRP $299/pair).

From my research, the Atoms have been regarded very highly for many years. I'm surprised no one else has mentioned them in this thread. You should definitely give them a listen if you get a chance. I can't comment on how they compare against the other speakers you mention, but they sound great to me. FWIW, I have also heard good things about the Cambridge S30.

Here is a link to the Stereophile review of the previous version atoms (v.5). (The v.6 is supposedly even better).

http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/907para/

Good Luck and welcome aboard~

 

[Alex2507]

I was disappointed by the "punch" in the mid-range, and the performance of the vocals. I expected some more "kick" on beats or drum segments of songs, but it was a little too muffled. Also, the vocals sounded too "airy" and light even when the performer's voice is strong and should "carry" more.

See if you can lie to the rec'r and tell it that you have a sub and cross it at 80Hz. I have a feeling that you are sending it a full range signal and that while the speaker is busy trying to make sounds that it can't, it's ability to make sounds that it can is being compromised.

That speaker's frequency response starts at 80Hz and I believe that you can only expect 80dB-85dB. You think you're underwhelmed? You should see how Behringer feels. They only got $129 and a poor review for their efforts. You may need to throw a whole lot more money at this if you expect better performance.

 

[endbegin]

See if you can lie to the rec'r and tell it that you have a sub and cross it at 80Hz. I have a feeling that you are sending it a full range signal and that while the speaker is busy trying to make sounds that it can't, it's ability to make sounds that it can is being compromised.

That speaker's frequency response starts at 80Hz and I believe that you can only expect 80dB-85dB. You think you're underwhelmed? You should see how Behringer feels. They only got $129 and a poor review for their efforts. You may need to throw a whole lot more money at this if you expect better performance.

Well, they are supposed to perform like speakers that are two or three times more expensive, and beat out more expensive rivals in the budget-shootout listening tests. It didn't work for me.

 

[endbegin]

I am biased as I recently chose these for my own system...but I would definitely add the Paradigm Atoms v.6 to your list (MSRP $299/pair).

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll put them on my list.

 

[Alex2507]

It didn't work for me.

Yeah, I got that. The trick is to figure out why and then to fix it. Did you try what I suggested in the previous post? The idea was to pair these speakers up with a sub ... all for ~$300 IIRC. You didn't mention getting one. Are you in fact running a full range signal to the 2030P's?

 

[STRONGBADF1]

So the pair of B2030Ps arrived yesterday, hooked them up to the Denon AVR1609, and played some songs from my music player (Cowon D2 connected to AUX input).

My initial impression was that the speakers were very sharp on the highs which doesn't bother me too much, and I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of bass I got. However, I was disappointed by the "punch" in the mid-range, and the performance of the vocals. I expected some more "kick" on beats or drum segments of songs, but it was a little too muffled. Also, the vocals sounded too "airy" and light even when the performer's voice is strong and should "carry" more.

Tried playing around with the settings on the Denon, but it didn't seem to make a difference. Currently, the speakers are placed in a room (probably 12' x 14') on side tables with roughly 3 feet of clearance from the back wall and there is very little furniture in there.

Guess I am wondering if this is how this speaker usually sounds, or I am missing something?

The Denon can allow for another pair of speakers to be connected like in a listening test, so I could order a pair of TSC TSBLs for demo purposes ...

Although the sounds that come out of the speakers seem to be very clean and unforgiving, which I do like, I am a little underwhelmed overall.

Any feedback would be welcome.

Hi endbegin,

Room and receiver set-up is important...

Make sure to use the "Pure Direct" mode on the receiver when zeroing in on placement and/or comparing speakers.

Go to the Audioholics main page and read the set-up articles if you haven't already. Your room with very little furniture is most likely causing acoustical problems (brightness and echos/reverberation). I'm wondering if the side tables are tall enough and if the speakers are not all the way up to the edge (I'm picturing regular sized end tables) you would be getting sound bouncing off the surface of the table top causing even more issues.

Those speakers measure very flat which is not something most people are used to in a speaker. It takes a while to get used to if you haven't ever had "flat" speakers before. You may never get used to it...but you need to make sure they are getting a a fair shake with proper set-up.

Have fun with it!
SBF1

 

[WmAx]

Hi endbegin,

Room and receiver set-up is important...

Make sure to use the "Pure Direct" mode on the receiver when zeroing in on placement and/or comparing speakers.

Unless the receiver is a piece of junk, Pure Direct is just a psychological feature. If the 'extra' circuitry causes audible difference in reality - I would recommend chucking the unit......

-Chris

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Unless the receiver is a piece of junk, Pure Direct is just a psychological feature. If the 'extra' circuitry causes audible difference in reality - I would recommend chucking the unit......

-Chris

True, but, It is an easy way of making sure the eq and other settings are off and not interfering.

 

[endbegin]

Hi endbegin,

Room and receiver set-up is important...

Make sure to use the "Pure Direct" mode on the receiver when zeroing in on placement and/or comparing speakers.

Go to the Audioholics main page and read the set-up articles if you haven't already. Your room with very little furniture is most likely causing acoustical problems (brightness and echos/reverberation). I'm wondering if the side tables are tall enough and if the speakers are not all the way up to the edge (I'm picturing regular sized end tables) you would be getting sound bouncing off the surface of the table top causing even more issues.

Those speakers measure very flat which is not something most people are used to in a speaker. It takes a while to get used to if you haven't ever had "flat" speakers before. You may never get used to it...but you need to make sure they are getting a a fair shake with proper set-up.

Have fun with it!
SBF1

The side tables are around 2.5' feet tall and I have the speakers sitting at the edges of the tables. By a flat response I assumed that the sound would be fairly equal at most audible freq ranges, at least over 100 Hz or so with these units. I also understand that room acoustics plays a major role in this.

There are a few things I will do before thinking about other speakers, and I haven't really had time to do this yet.

1. Take the speakers to a friend's home studio and see how it performs in that setup.
2. Read the receiver manual in detail, because buttons and settings are very non-intuitive. Also, the receiver has an "Audessey" mode, and I don't know what that is. I figure it is some sort of equalization.
3. I am using stereo mode, so I figured the receiver is sending all its sound to the 2 front channels, and I played around with this to make sure all the other channels were off. I assume this is what you mean by "Pure Direct" mode, but I'll make sure.

Thanks for the feedback. I should be able to do some of this tonight and will post my thoughts soon.

 

[endbegin]

Yeah, I got that. The trick is to figure out why and then to fix it. Did you try what I suggested in the previous post? The idea was to pair these speakers up with a sub ... all for ~$300 IIRC. You didn't mention getting one. Are you in fact running a full range signal to the 2030P's?

Well, I did mention in an earlier that I'd get a sub at some point in the future, but not right now. As of now, I am okay with what low end I am getting from these speakers.

As for what you suggested, I haven't tried it out yet but as I've written in the previous post, that and a few other things are on my "things to do" this weekend.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

By a flat response I assumed that the sound would be fairly equal at most audible freq ranges, at least over 100 Hz or so with these units.

A lot of speakers have a bump up in bass around 80htz. (not flat) Some research shows that most people prefer this and think it sounds more natural. (or "flat") This same research shows that a rolled of response on the Hi-frequencies is preferred also. You may prefer these characteristics. The beauty of a flat speaker is that it is a better starting point for EQing in the sound you prefer.

I think you're on the right track to finding out what you prefer. Reading and understanding your receiver and what it can do can make a huge difference.

 

[endbegin]

Just a quick update ... I spent some time reading the receiver manual and it turns out that it is a multi-zone receiver and Zone 2 is enabled by default. So I made sure that the receiver is in "regular" 7.1 mode.

Then I turned off the surround speakers, and the subwoofer, all the equalizers, and set the mode to 2-channel stereo and the sound is much improved. Also tried setting the speaker to "small", which automatically assumes a sub and setting the crossover frequency to 80Hz, but this didn't sound as good.

Also to it to my friend's home studio and compared with the Yamaha NS-10s in there, and I felt it sounded better. I do realize that the NS-10s are polarizing (meaning people either love it or hate it) and while both speakers are neutral, the B2030P sounded more detailed.

So things are looking better, but I am not still completely in love with the B2030Ps. Perhaps, as has been mentioned already, the sound from the Behringers are too neutral for my ears to appreciate.

I waiting for a pair of TSC TSBLs to arrive so I can do a listening test. I will also try out the Cambridge S30s. The price on audioadvisor is quite attractive.

I also do want to try out the Paradigm Atom v6 and the PSB Image B25. I have located some audio stores in the area but I don't think they allow for an in-home demo, which is disappointing.

 

[endbegin]

Unless the receiver is a piece of junk, Pure Direct is just a psychological feature. If the 'extra' circuitry causes audible difference in reality - I would recommend chucking the unit......

-Chris

My main goal is to hear music, not do movies or games or any of the typical 7.1 stuff. I bought the Denon on a whim cause it was on sale (paid $120 for it), and thought I might use the other channels some point in the future.

Do you have a recommendation on just a high-quality amp in around the same price range?

 

[endbegin]

I am also getting a pair of KEF iQ1s on craigslist for $150. Searched around here a little, and the feedback seems very positive.

 

[Boerd]

Hi,

This is my first post here, although I've looked around the forums anonymously in the past. I am just getting back into assembling a A/V system. As of now, I have a new Denon AVR1609 receiver that I got a great price on. Currently, I am looking for some nice bookshelf speakers in the $250 or $300 price range (or lower). Almost all my music is MP3 now (minimum 256 kpbs), hardly own any more CDs. Like listening to electronic rock, some classical piano pieces, and indie folk.

Would like to get the best quality bookshelf speakers in my budget, so I don't have to sell everything and buy again like I did before. I will try to do as many listening tests as possible, but it is hard mainly because often one cannot listen too all choices in one session, which is why I am relying on the forum's knowledge. In general, I like the mids and highs to be clear, but don't like the highs to be too "sharp". Don't like too much bass either, just enough to keep it "real" or "not tinny". Sorry, for using these subjective terms, but it is hard for me to describe.

So, after reading several posts, here is my shortlist. Any help on what else could be on here, or suggestions on doing listening tests will be appreciated.

1. Behringer B2030P. Very good price, and I read the recent bookshelf shootout here where this one came out on top. I liked how the mids sounded neutral in the test.

2. Cambridge Audio S30. They seem small, but the reviews seem really good.

3. Energy C-200. Same comment as the S30.

4. PSB Alpha B1. These seem to have a legendary status.

5. NHT Classic 3. There are on sale at audioadvisor for $300 but have a slightly lower sensitivity.

6. HSU HB-1. They are right on top of my price range, so I've put them on the bottom of my list, unless they really sound way better.

P.S. I've seen that Aperion does free to and fro shipping, so essentially I can get a free listening test. I don't know which to try out.

P.P.S. I don't care for Polks, Sonys, or Infinitys. Never liked the feeling of a Polk, never enjoyed anything made by Sony except perhaps for their TVs, and Infinity seems to have this loud/full sound, like I am in a live concert all the time. My preference is more of a pristine sound, that I can listen to for long periods with comfort.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading.

My preference would be:

1. NHT Classic 3
2. PSB Alpha B1
3. Energy C-200

Regarding the sensitivity of NHT - your receiver will handle it without problems; I wouldn't worry.

Ooops - I see you already bought a pair of speakers - sorry didn't read the entire thread

 

[Boerd]

NHT Classic 3 Review in Stereophile

You might be interested in this:
http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/1106nht/

Read the measurements and you will find out that the Classic 3 impedance is pretty high so the speaker is an easy load.

Ooops - I see you already bought a pair of speakers - sorry didn't read the entire thread