lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
With the caveat that" being rich" doesn't in any way equate to being a " businessman " and that being in business doesn't necessarily equate to being legit...
Oh I'm not talking doofuses with inheritances generally, like someone I can think of.
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic Chief
It is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve anything of significance on your own....nobody is self made. One of the great fallacies of the American ethos.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
So anyone with parental guidance/assistance can't be self made?
OK, let's do this-

made such by one's own actionsespecially : having achieved success or prominence by one's own efforts

 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Don't even entertain the argument.. His dad may have taught Tiger the discipline end of the sport , but nobody , and i mean nobody can force a person to practice hard enough or be good.. It 1000% talent + will..any great athletes will tell you that..
They belonged to a country club, too- sure, he showed an early interest and that's what kept him going at it, but we'll probably never know how much pressure came from his parents to do well.

Forcing kids to do something they don't enjoy is the best way to make them want to quit as soon as they're free, but he has clearly enjoyed parts of his career- playing at such a high level for so long has to come with rewards of its own, but he also struggled through problems with his swing, coaches, habits, etc- he has a lot to be thankful for and proud of.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
OK, let's do this-

made such by one's own actionsespecially : having achieved success or prominence by one's own efforts

Doesn't defend your question particularly.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve anything of significance on your own....nobody is self made. One of the great fallacies of the American ethos.
True enough. It's a matter of degree we're talking about more than anything....
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
It is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve anything of significance on your own....nobody is self made. One of the great fallacies of the American ethos.
So, people should just not bother? Remember, Bezos started in his garage.

On an absolute level, you're right- if he had lived alone, found a golf club and taught himself to play this well without any help, he could be called 'totally self-made' as a golfer. He wouldn't know the rules or have had any tips, but those would prevent him fitting the absolute.

However, if someone has an idea and starts a business or use their talents, it's up to them to be successful, or not. They absolutely rely on their products/talents, customers/fans and the recommendations from customers(sales dollars they generate through their endorsements) if the business is to grow but if they do everything their company needs, they damn sure did most of it on their own. Some have coaches, some don't- in some cases, an appropriate coach is extremely difficult to find. A lot of people are totally unaware of the hard work, time and searching for answers that go into creating the ideas, starting, running and operating a small business and a lot of small businesses become large or even huge in spite of the odds against them. A lot of people hate business owners because they assume the person is exploiting people, soaking up a lot of money and living the high life- that's not true for a lot of people and they didn't start their business to become wealthy- many do it because they think they have an idea for something that's unique or better than what's available, came to hate working for someone else/want to be in charge or because they have the freedom to develop something without worrying about where the money will come from. The lost evenings, weekends, holidays and birthdays with the family, no vacations, working when sick and paying the employees but not themselves is something most people never consider.

Tiger didn't reach this level by sitting on his keester.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Your argument doesn't agree with the generally accepted definition, either- your move. :)
No, I didn't define it. Your move. We can't even settle on audiophile's definition, come on. :)
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic Chief
So, people should just not bother? Remember, Bezos started in his garage.

On an absolute level, you're right- if he had lived alone, found a golf club and taught himself to play this well without any help, he could be called 'totally self-made' as a golfer. He wouldn't know the rules or have had any tips, but those would prevent him fitting the absolute.

However, if someone has an idea and starts a business or use their talents, it's up to them to be successful, or not. They absolutely rely on their products/talents, customers/fans and the recommendations from customers(sales dollars they generate through their endorsements) if the business is to grow but if they do everything their company needs, they damn sure did most of it on their own. Some have coaches, some don't- in some cases, an appropriate coach is extremely difficult to find. A lot of people are totally unaware of the hard work, time and searching for answers that go into creating the ideas, starting, running and operating a small business and a lot of small businesses become large or even huge in spite of the odds against them. A lot of people hate business owners because they assume the person is exploiting people, soaking up a lot of money and living the high life- that's not true for a lot of people and they didn't start their business to become wealthy- many do it because they think they have an idea for something that's unique or better than what's available, came to hate working for someone else/want to be in charge or because they have the freedom to develop something without worrying about where the money will come from. The lost evenings, weekends, holidays and birthdays with the family, no vacations, working when sick and paying the employees but not themselves is something most people never consider.

Tiger didn't reach this level by sitting on his keester.
who said people shouldn’t bother....

Tiger didn’t reach this level alone! Non of the drivel you typed changes that!
The issue is not if Tiger sat on his keester, the question is, is he self made.
As usual your failure to recognize the basic premise of the argument undermines and handicaps your analysis.

But hey, you got to unload a lot of stuff.....
 
Last edited:
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
So, people should just not bother? Remember, Bezos started in his garage.

On an absolute level, you're right- if he had lived alone, found a golf club and taught himself to play this well without any help, he could be called 'totally self-made' as a golfer. He wouldn't know the rules or have had any tips, but those would prevent him fitting the absolute.

However, if someone has an idea and starts a business or use their talents, it's up to them to be successful, or not. They absolutely rely on their products/talents, customers/fans and the recommendations from customers(sales dollars they generate through their endorsements) if the business is to grow but if they do everything their company needs, they damn sure did most of it on their own. Some have coaches, some don't- in some cases, an appropriate coach is extremely difficult to find. A lot of people are totally unaware of the hard work, time and searching for answers that go into creating the ideas, starting, running and operating a small business and a lot of small businesses become large or even huge in spite of the odds against them. A lot of people hate business owners because they assume the person is exploiting people, soaking up a lot of money and living the high life- that's not true for a lot of people and they didn't start their business to become wealthy- many do it because they think they have an idea for something that's unique or better than what's available, came to hate working for someone else/want to be in charge or because they have the freedom to develop something without worrying about where the money will come from. The lost evenings, weekends, holidays and birthdays with the family, no vacations, working when sick and paying the employees but not themselves is something most people never consider.

Tiger didn't reach this level by sitting on his keester.
Remember all the stick that Obama took over his "You didn't build that" statement"? So many people lost their $hit over that and either stupidly or deliberately took it out of context. He was clearly referring to public infrastructure, education and services that facilitate opportunities to succeed. And, the rule of law protects peoples' intellectual property from being stolen by others - not perfectly, but it's better than no protections.

The fact is, absolutely nobody "makes it" completely on their own. Sure, Jeff Bezos started Amazon in his garage. But, he didn't finance it from his savings as a line cook at McDonalds as a teenager. He received $300,000 from his parents along with other investors to get it off the ground. Sure, he's smart, driven and worked hard. But, he wouldn't have made it without the education and financial assistance he received, or the public infrastructure that enabled his business to operate. I certainly don't discount his contributions to Amazon's success - it wouldn't have happened without him and his ideas. However, it wouldn't have happened without the other factors I mentioned either.

It's similar with athletes, as well. Reaching the pinnacle of any sport requires a great deal of innate talent and drive. But, it also requires great coaching, which is not cheap. How many other kids could have been another Woods, Gretzky, or Schumacher, but grew up in circumstances that did not facilitate or foster their talents?
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Samurai
Remember all the stick that Obama took over his "You didn't build that" statement"? So many people lost their $hit over that and either stupidly or deliberately took it out of context. He was clearly referring to public infrastructure, education and services that facilitate opportunities to succeed. And, the rule of law protects peoples' intellectual property from being stolen by others - not perfectly, but it's better than no protections.

The fact is, absolutely nobody "makes it" completely on their own. Sure, Jeff Bezos started Amazon in his garage. But, he didn't finance it from his savings as a line cook at McDonalds as a teenager. He received $300,000 from his parents along with other investors to get it off the ground. Sure, he's smart, driven and worked hard. But, he wouldn't have made it without the education and financial assistance he received, or the public infrastructure that enabled his business to operate. I certainly don't discount his contributions to Amazon's success - it wouldn't have happened without him and his ideas. However, it wouldn't have happened without the other factors I mentioned either.

It's similar with athletes, as well. Reaching the pinnacle of any sport requires a great deal of innate talent and drive. But, it also requires great coaching, which is not cheap. How many other kids could have been another Woods, Gretzky, or Schumacher, but grew up in circumstances that did not facilitate or foster their talents?
Too often claiming to be "self-made" is an excuse to be an egoistical jerk that owes nothing to anybody.
 
L

lp85253

Audioholic Chief
They belonged to a country club, too- sure, he showed an early interest and that's what kept him going at it, but we'll probably never know how much pressure came from his parents to do well.

Forcing kids to do something they don't enjoy is the best way to make them want to quit as soon as they're free, but he has clearly enjoyed parts of his career- playing at such a high level for so long has to come with rewards of its own, but he also struggled through problems with his swing, coaches, habits, etc- he has a lot to be thankful for and proud of.
Tiger was a public course kid afaik... Tiger wasn't forced into golf , it was just something his dad got him into early and he stuck with it ... He is certainly a lucky , talented and smart guy...
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic General
Hopefully the crash doesn't leave his legs permanently damaged. In addition to the 15 majors and endless stats the one I always remember the most is four in a row! I still pinch myself on that.
Could have been much worse if he had struck another vehicle.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Tiger was a public course kid afaik... Tiger wasn't forced into golf , it was just something his dad got him into early and he stuck with it ... He is certainly a lucky , talented and smart guy...
I just found his bio on tigerwoods.com-

"As a nine year-old, Tiger made a bold commitment to his father, Earl: I’m going to be professionally excellent "-

Says he took an interest at 6 months, putted with Bob Hope on the Mike Douglas Show at 2 years and shot 43 for nine at age 3. Most kids are scolded for eating glue at that age. Doesn't mention where he played, though.

It also shows that he played in his first pro tourney at 16 in 1992- if this is true, does the AAU/NCAA no longer prohibit athletes from competing if they entered a pro event?


His record is amazing.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Tiger was a public course kid afaik... Tiger wasn't forced into golf , it was just something his dad got him into early and he stuck with it ... He is certainly a lucky , talented and smart guy...
I remember his father being able to get Tiger on military courses due his being an officer while growing up in southern California....
 
L

lp85253

Audioholic Chief
Remember all the stick that Obama took over his "You didn't build that" statement"? So many people lost their $hit over that and either stupidly or deliberately took it out of context. He was clearly referring to public infrastructure, education and services that facilitate opportunities to succeed. And, the rule of law protects peoples' intellectual property from being stolen by others - not perfectly, but it's better than no protections.

The fact is, absolutely nobody "makes it" completely on their own. Sure, Jeff Bezos started Amazon in his garage. But, he didn't finance it from his savings as a line cook at McDonalds as a teenager. He received $300,000 from his parents along with other investors to get it off the ground. Sure, he's smart, driven and worked hard. But, he wouldn't have made it without the education and financial assistance he received, or the public infrastructure that enabled his business to operate. I certainly don't discount his contributions to Amazon's success - it wouldn't have happened without him and his ideas. However, it wouldn't have happened without the other factors I mentioned either.

It's similar with athletes, as well. Reaching the pinnacle of any sport requires a great deal of innate talent and drive. But, it also requires great coaching, which is not cheap. How many other kids could have been another Woods, Gretzky, or Schumacher, but grew up in circumstances that did not facilitate or foster their talents?
I just found his bio on tigerwoods.com-

"As a nine year-old, Tiger made a bold commitment to his father, Earl: I’m going to be professionally excellent "-

Says he took an interest at 6 months, putted with Bob Hope on the Mike Douglas Show at 2 years and shot 43 for nine at age 3. Most kids are scolded for eating glue at that age. Doesn't mention where he played, though.

It also shows that he played in his first pro tourney at 16 in 1992- if this is true, does the AAU/NCAA no longer prohibit athletes from competing if they entered a pro event?


His record is amazing.
You can play in any tournament as an amateur, you just can't take money... Phil won the tucson open as an ASU junior( i think..).. Scott Verplank almost won the Western open as an am... When Phil won the Tucson tournament i asked him if he considered turning pro and taking the money.. He got a funny smile on his face and said " yes, i did"...
 

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