General Ranking of AV Receivers??

[Janik]

I am going to start seriously looking to replace my old Arcam amp with an AV receiver in my efforts to start putting together a decent HDTV surround system.

Spending on my AVR will be limited to less than $2k, and I would like some opinions on which receivers should be the more serious contenders.. right now i simply haven't done enough research, and there are so many angles that the salespeople throw at you.

One article said that the Reon HDMI video upscaler chip, which is in the better Onkyo receivers, is superior to the Faroudja or others, but I have no idea. Opinions?

Is a receiver with a toroidal power supply really that much better than the others?? Enquiring minds want to know..

In general, for overall quality and excellent audio/video generation, how do the brands stack up against each other? What would be the top 4 brands that I should concentrate on??

So much to learn, so little time...

 

[MDS]

That is a loaded question for sure. Everyone has their own brand preferences and they are usually formed after years of experience owning one or more brands.

If you ask me, I'd say Onkyo should be at the top of your list. Others will say Yamaha or Denon. Truth is, they are all good and you trade features for price point.

Advanced features like a toroidal power supply or the best of the best video processing chip are only important if you need them. Just keep in mind that as you go higher in any manufacturers' model lineup you get incremental improvements for exponential increase in cost - only you can decide if the extras are worthwhile.

 

[Janik]

Thanks MDS, I've been on the sidelines for the last 10 years with my Arcam system. They produce excellent audio but I'm a bit leery of their video side. I'm basically looking for a AVR that outputs quality signal and is reliable. Nothing is more agravating than shelling out big bucks for something and then having it crap out on you. My Arcam amp signal selector switch had to be replaced twice in ten years. I was a bit disappointed.

 

[Davemcc]

I think you may be looking for an Onkyo TX-NR905. The consensus of reports that I've seen is that the Reon chip is definitely superior than the older Faroudja chip. The 905 uses the HQV Reon-VX and also includes mosquito noise and block artifact reduction, a huge benefit benefit for broadcast signal users. It has 4 HDMI 1.3a inputs and 2 HDMI ouputs with full 1080p support and support for the newest audio formats. It does have a torroidal power supply (not big on technical details here) that is rated stable into 4 ohms. It will use up all of your budget, maybe a little more but it's worth the stretch.

It is selling for less than $2k in the States and with the current strength of the Canadian dollar, it's worth having it shipped in (IMO). It would be way expensive in Canada. Here's why I think it's worth stretching for: a) it's competition is probably in the $5k range (Yamaha RX-Z11 or Denon AVR-5308CI); it uses the most up-to date video processor (barring the Realta which is also by Silicon Optics and not all that different); the mosquito noise and block artifact reduction is about $1k to find in an outboard processor; it is a solid 54lb piece with its massive power supply.

You could opt for the Onkyo TX-SR875, which does not include the Torroidal power supply, nor do I see mention on MN and BAR processing. But it is much more budget friendly and still utilizes the Reon-VX.

Other brands to consider are Yamaha, Denon and Pioneer.

 

[jostenmeat]

I am going to start seriously looking to replace my old Arcam amp with an AV receiver in my efforts to start putting together a decent HDTV surround system.

Spending on my AVR will be limited to less than $2k, and I would like some opinions on which receivers should be the more serious contenders.. right now i simply haven't done enough research, and there are so many angles that the salespeople throw at you.

One article said that the Reon HDMI video upscaler chip, which is in the better Onkyo receivers, is superior to the Faroudja or others, but I have no idea. Opinions?

Is a receiver with a toroidal power supply really that much better than the others?? Enquiring minds want to know..

In general, for overall quality and excellent audio/video generation, how do the brands stack up against each other? What would be the top 4 brands that I should concentrate on??

So much to learn, so little time...

Good budget. So... it seems... that video is of primary importance? Go Reon (or Realta or whatever) for sure. Torroidal is not, imo, some insane luxury for me as Reon might be. Even $200 Behringer amps have torroidal transformers. They offer higher current with less distortion. Do you need it? I don't know. Do you like cinema-type volumes, in a large room, sitting far away from speakers, which themselves offer tough loads? for greater dynamic range with less distortion. The amp itself has less SQ significance than the room, recording, speakers, pre/amp, source- outside of the previous statement.

Though it seems unlikely from your post, if audio does happen to be first, you can even check out separates... (all-in-one-unit-avr a must?). Outlaw, Emotiva, NAD, Rotel, maybe others if willing to go used. A couple of these companies make receivers too, but they are not for the video-first folks the way the best Onkyo receivers are.

How many speakers are you driving?

 

[Davemcc]

it's competition is probably in the $5k range (Yamaha RX-Z11 or Denon AVR-5308CI);

OK, I'm going to bust myself here for trying to cheat and using Product Wiki instead of taking the time of going to the original sources. My reply based on info from that page bothered me, which is why I followed up to correct it. Too late to edit.

The Yamaha RX-Z11 includes many more features than the Onkyo TX-NR905, including extra channels of amplification. Also duly noted that the Denon AVR-5308Ci is not listed on Denon's website. I apologize for the hasty reply with these inconsistencies.

The closest direct comparison between these three brands appears to be the Onkyo TX-SR875, Denon AVR-3808Ci and Yamaha RX-V3800.

However, I would still consider the Onkyo TX-NR905 worth stretching for given it's extra features for the price, especially when compared against the Denon AVR-4308Ci with its Faroudja chip for $2,500US.

 

[jacquescas]

i'm basically in the same price range and think the Onkyo 875 fits about right. It gives you the Reon HQV and you can find them online for about 60% of you budget if you look hard, that can free up cash for new speakers, or a HD-dvd or blue ray player (or one of the new combo drives)

IF i were you i'd troll the interweb looking for a Onkyo 875 for around 1300 and invest the rest in a toshiba HD-X2 player and enjoy the fruits of your labor

 

[Janik]

I have a sizable regular DVD collection, so my priority would be best upconversion setup to full 5.1 or 7.1 setup. Was hoping to use my existing speakers, but it seems surround speakers are best when not mixed.

Are the chips in the Onkyo 875 and Toshiba HD-X2 about comparable? Just curious.

A lot of good info supplied to my original question, much appreciated. My price searching on some of these components have U.S. outlets at a considerable discount than us up here in Canada. Ordering surround speakers and a receiver from the US and having it shipped up could save some big $$. Now to figure out how to do it. Some stores such as Circiut City will only accept US credit cards, and don't ship into Canada. Ideas? (May be a stupid question, but I've never done this before!!)

 

[Davemcc]

Are the chips in the Onkyo 875 and Toshiba HD-X2 about comparable? Just curious.

They are both Reon chips, but the Onkyo says Reon-VX. I don't know what the -VX denotes or what benefit it might have. A lot will have to do with implementation and programming, but they are definitely comparable.

Most of the internet only brands will ship to Canada no problem. Some won't if they have exclusive distributor arrangements with a Canadian distributor. It's a crapshoot what you can or can't have shipped here. Some stuff, I've had no trouble, but I couldn't find an AV rack supplier that would ship to Canada so I bought something else locally.

 

[Seth=L]

I will back up the recommendations for the TX-SR875 and TX-NR905.

 

[jostenmeat]

Was hoping to use my existing speakers, but it seems surround speakers are best when not mixed.

It seems to me that this point is usually over-emphasized. Try the existing speakers and see how you feel. I've mixed brands myself. Some would say just keep at least the front three the same. Even then, there are plenty of audio-first folks who have a different brand center. To the best of my knowledge, Dolby and DTS recommend similar sized speakers as more important than matching brands. However, for multi channel music people (not me), matching becomes a lot more important it seems.... HT is easy though, its just sound effects....

 

[annunaki]

Onkyo has really impressed me lately with their chipsets and power output and other features for the money. Denon would be my very close second choice. When Marantz releases new models I am sure they will be up there as well.

 

[davidtwotrees]

It seems to me that this point is usually over-emphasized. Try the existing speakers and see how you feel. I've mixed brands myself. Some would say just keep at least the front three the same. Even then, there are plenty of audio-first folks who have a different brand center. To the best of my knowledge, Dolby and DTS recommend similar sized speakers as more important than matching brands. However, for multi channel music people (not me), matching becomes a lot more important it seems.... HT is easy though, its just sound effects....

I agree on this one. Audioholics sneer at the golden ear idea, yet we must have timbre matched speakers or all heck will break loose. Short of a blown speaker, or a really cheap speaker, I can't see the big deal.
My current rig is mixed. JBL center and Canton fronts......sounds fine. I will match up once funds are replenished........

 

[Janik]

Made a decision

After much handwringing & consternation, I put in an order for the Onkyo TX-NR905B from ABT Electronics for less than $1500.
I needed to send a money order as they don't take Canadian VISA. They will ship the unit to the UPS store in Ogdensburg, NY.. it's a 45 minute drive from where I live in Canada. The best price I could find in Canada was $2500, that's an excessive differential IMO!!

The only fly in the ointment is a 30 unit backorder. He said not to expect delivery until end of November.

 

[Seth=L]

Onkyo has really impressed me lately with their chipsets and power output and other features for the money. Denon would be my very close second choice. When Marantz releases new models I am sure they will be up there as well.

The new Marantz models seem to be lacking.

 

[solomr2]

While I've read many of the threads about the Reon chip vs. Farouga and so on, I don't know of any side by side reviews of the Denon, Onkyo or some of the other new 1080p AV Receivers. More importantly, I have been looking all over for the Onkyo TXNR905 and nobody seems to have any in stock, and I have also looked for professional reviews but couldn't find any either.

Circuit City is just now getting the Onkyo 875, they have it listed at $1700. They also have the 805 on sale for $899.

There is an awful lot of speculative hype in the Onkyo units, which may be warranted given their impressive spec sheet, but I will never buy another piece of audio equipment, especially a $2000 receiver, without first demoing it personally with my own material.

Last weekend I did a side by side comparison of the Pioneer Elite VSX92 and the Denon AVR 3808. I didn't actually compare the video signal processing in them since both are Farouga, but the sound was vastly different. A lot of us tend to speculate based on just what we read in the manufacturer specs or from blogs, etc. But there is still a lot to be said about using your own eyes and ears to judge for yourself. In the end, the sound quality of the Denon literally blew away the Pioneer, which was not at all what I was expecting.

I suggest you get out there and visit some audio shops that will demo the equipment for you and let you compare them side by side. You may be quite surprised by what your ear prefers.

 

[annunaki]

The new Marantz models seem to be lacking.

How so? I have not checked them out yet.

 

[gmichael]

If that was my budget, I'd look into the Yamaha RX-V3800. But I think the 1800 will do 99% of the same job for a few hundred less.

 

[annunaki]

While I've read many of the threads about the Reon chip vs. Farouga and so on, I don't know of any side by side reviews of the Denon, Onkyo or some of the other new 1080p AV Receivers. More importantly, I have been looking all over for the Onkyo TXNR905 and nobody seems to have any in stock, and I have also looked for professional reviews but couldn't find any either.

Circuit City is just now getting the Onkyo 875, they have it listed at $1700. They also have the 805 on sale for $899.

There is an awful lot of speculative hype in the Onkyo units, which may be warranted given their impressive spec sheet, but I will never buy another piece of audio equipment, especially a $2000 receiver, without first demoing it personally with my own material.

Last weekend I did a side by side comparison of the Pioneer Elite VSX92 and the Denon AVR 3808. I didn't actually compare the video signal processing in them since both are Farouga, but the sound was vastly different. A lot of us tend to speculate based on just what we read in the manufacturer specs or from blogs, etc. But there is still a lot to be said about using your own eyes and ears to judge for yourself. In the end, the sound quality of the Denon literally blew away the Pioneer, which was not at all what I was expecting.

I suggest you get out there and visit some audio shops that will demo the equipment for you and let you compare them side by side. You may be quite surprised by what your ear prefers.

If both receivers are not set up identically and level matched for output it would be difficult to make any sort of real judgment there. The comparison would be flawed if they were not identically set up with matched output levels. I am not suggesting to bring a rat-shack spl meter with you but it may not hurt.

 

[Seth=L]

How so? I have not checked them out yet.

No scalers on HDMI 1.3 models. They aren't to beefy considering the price. If I paid $2000 for an AVR I feel it should weigh at a minimum of 40 pounds.