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stanzlavos

Audiophyte
Hi. Just ordered my first HT system. :) I wanted to know how best to protect it and provide mains isolation.

I have an android TV. Every time power goes out and returns, I have to wait quite some time before it is up and running. I have been considering a UPS for quite some time. Now, I have another reason. Would also be connecting the AVR and Sub to it (AVR-X3600H, SVS PB-2000 Pro). So, planning to get a 2-3kVA UPS. My doubts :

1) Is it OK to use UPS with audio equipment ?
2) Should I get a double conversion online UPS ? I had my eyes on the Eaton 9E3000I (3kVA, 2400W, <37 dB at 1 meter).
3) Or will a pure sine wave line-interactive UPS be enough ? I am assuming these will be cheaper (I am not able to find a good one yet in India - let's assume I can find one).

Please give suggestions. :)
 
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Speedskater

Audioholic Chief
You don't need a 'pure sine wave line-interactive UPS'. The only need something to get you thru the power outages. The android TV doesn't care at all about pure sine waves.
 
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stanzlavos

Audiophyte
You don't need a 'pure sine wave line-interactive UPS'. The only need something to get you thru the power outages. The android TV doesn't care at all about pure sine waves.
Yeah. I was not worried about the TV. :)

Say I use a line-interactive stepped approximation UPS (saves me some money). Had two concerns (I am surely being paranoid) :

1) How fast should the transfer time be ? 6-10ms should be fine for the AVR ?
2) The AVR/Sub running on the stepped approximation UPS will not cause damage to it in any way right ?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Yeah. I was not worried about the TV. :)

Say I use a line-interactive stepped approximation UPS (saves me some money). Had two concerns (I am surely being paranoid) :

1) How fast should the transfer time be ? 6-10ms should be fine for the AVR ?
2) The AVR/Sub running on the stepped approximation UPS will not cause damage to it in any way right ?
Why aren't you worried about the TV? It has circuits that are sensitive to spikes, same as the rest of the equipment. Best practice- kill surges at the service entrance, kill them at the equipment locations and make sure the each AV system in on the same circuit(s).

Milliseconds is a long time when it comes to surges. Look for something that works in microseconds or nanoseconds. Make sure it shuts off at a reasonable over/undervoltage point, too- the one in the link shuts off below 100VAC and above 140VAC.

Like this-

 
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stanzlavos

Audiophyte
Why aren't you worried about the TV? It has circuits that are sensitive to spikes, same as the rest of the equipment. Best practice- kill surges at the service entrance, kill them at the equipment locations and make sure the each AV system in on the same circuit(s).

Milliseconds is a long time when it comes to surges. Look for something that works in microseconds or nanoseconds. Make sure it shuts off at a reasonable over/undervoltage point, too- the one in the link shuts off below 100VAC and above 140VAC.

Like this-

I guess I was a little vague. :)

The TV is connected to a surge protector. I was always planning on adding a UPS, as the TV takes some time to turn back on after a power outage (the apartment generator takes a few minutes to kick in). When I said I am not worried about the TV, what I meant was that I am not concerned if it would work on a line interactive stepped approximation UPS or not (I am quite certain it would). :)

Now to the original question. To protect the new audio equipment, I considered the following options :

1) Use a single phase servo stabilizer. This will clean out the mains issues. My dealer told me that loosing power abruptly can also damage the woofer/AVR. Is this true ? If not, I prefer this option. It would be the cheapest.

2) Use a UPS :

a) Line-interactive step approximated sine wave : If the AVR/Subwoofer won't be affected at all by operating on a step approximated sine wave for the few minutes it will be on the UPS (until power comes back on or I shutdown the system properly), I'd be more than OK getting a line-interactive step approximated sine wave UPS. This would cost me around the same as option one.​
The switching/transfer time of these line interactive UPSs are usually in the range of 6-10ms. My desktop computer, TV etc won't have any problem with this. Will an AVR be OK with it or is the 6-10 ms transfer time too long ?​
b) Line-interactive pure sine wave : If step approximated sine wave is not acceptable, this is the next option. Should cost more. The switching/transfer time query is valid for this option as well.​
c) Online pure sine wave : I am assuming that this is the best option ? Proper mains isolation, pure sine wave, no switching/transfer interval. Most expensive option.​
Suggestions ? :)
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Field Marshall
Why aren't you worried about the TV?

Best practice- kill surges at the service entrance, kill them at the equipment locations and make sure the each AV system in on the same circuit(s).

Milliseconds is a long time when it comes to surges. Look for something that works in microseconds or nanoseconds. Make sure it shuts off at a reasonable over/undervoltage point, too- the one in the link shuts off below 100VAC and above 140VAC.

Like this-

I am with @highfigh and @Speedskater on this one

Why aren't you worried about the TV?
The only device I have lost recently to power spikes due to storms was the big screen TV.
Its worth protecting. I went a different route. I bought the 5 year extended warranty.

Best Practice: kill surges at the service entrance.
If you are really concerned about protection, this is great advice. A whole house surge protection system applied at the service panel solves it for everything. They are engineered to work. No guesswork. It makes you think about whether you really need this or just want this.

Audio equipment isn't particularly different in the more/less sensitive category for spikes. It plugs in and therefore can get killed. My computers are in the same boat. I have them on a UPS system because my spikes are infrequent. A couple a year during thunderstorm season. I often will just shut all the electronics off during the storms because I can. Sometimes the old easy methods are still your friends.
 
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stanzlavos

Audiophyte
I am with @highfigh and @Speedskater on this one

Why aren't you worried about the TV?
The only device I have lost recently to power spikes due to storms was the big screen TV.
Its worth protecting. I went a different route. I bought the 5 year extended warranty.

Best Practice: kill surges at the service entrance.
If you are really concerned about protection, this is great advice. A whole house surge protection system applied at the service panel solves it for everything. They are engineered to work. No guesswork. It makes you think about whether you really need this or just want this.

Audio equipment isn't particularly different in the more/less sensitive category for spikes. It plugs in and therefore can get killed. My computers are in the same boat. I have them on a UPS system because my spikes are infrequent. A couple a year during thunderstorm season. I often will just shut all the electronics off during the storms because I can. Sometimes the old easy methods are still your friends.
Could you please check my response to "highfigh" ? :) My query is actually only related to the usage of UPSs with audio equipment. :)

All the other things that highfigh and you said are, of course, great advice. :)
 
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Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
I am with @highfigh and @Speedskater on this one

Why aren't you worried about the TV?
The only device I have lost recently to power spikes due to storms was the big screen TV.
Its worth protecting. I went a different route. I bought the 5 year extended warranty.

Best Practice: kill surges at the service entrance.
If you are really concerned about protection, this is great advice. A whole house surge protection system applied at the service panel solves it for everything. They are engineered to work. No guesswork. It makes you think about whether you really need this or just want this.

Audio equipment isn't particularly different in the more/less sensitive category for spikes. It plugs in and therefore can get killed. My computers are in the same boat. I have them on a UPS system because my spikes are infrequent. A couple a year during thunderstorm season. I often will just shut all the electronics off during the storms because I can. Sometimes the old easy methods are still your friends.
I agree with you. If you own a house, the whole house surge protection system is the best protection. If you live in an apartment like I do, then a Panamax or an APC power conditioner will do the job. I use an APC H15 and that provides adequate protection. It even stabilizes the incoming voltage as it has trim and boost features which are useful for wide voltage variations.

Not only the thunderstorms can destroy electronic equipment, power restoration after a power outage can also cause serious voltage surges.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
I am with @highfigh and @Speedskater on this one

Why aren't you worried about the TV?
The only device I have lost recently to power spikes due to storms was the big screen TV.
Its worth protecting. I went a different route. I bought the 5 year extended warranty.

Best Practice: kill surges at the service entrance.
If you are really concerned about protection, this is great advice. A whole house surge protection system applied at the service panel solves it for everything. They are engineered to work. No guesswork. It makes you think about whether you really need this or just want this.

Audio equipment isn't particularly different in the more/less sensitive category for spikes. It plugs in and therefore can get killed. My computers are in the same boat. I have them on a UPS system because my spikes are infrequent. A couple a year during thunderstorm season. I often will just shut all the electronics off during the storms because I can. Sometimes the old easy methods are still your friends.
If it was older equipment without microprocessors and network cards, I would't worry much but since i have a Plasma TV, BD player, ReQuest music server and MusicCast device, I use a Panamax and have never lost anything- even when there was almost no time lag between the lightning and the huge thunder. We have a lot of tall trees in the area and it's always noisy when storms roll through. The Panamax has shut down at times when I saw no flickering of lights, too.
 
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stanzlavos

Audiophyte
I agree with you. If you own a house, the whole house surge protection system is the best protection. If you live in an apartment like I do, then a Panamax or an APC power conditioner will do the job. I use an APC H15 and that provides adequate protection. It even stabilizes the incoming voltage as it has trim and boost features which are useful for wide voltage variations.

Not only the thunderstorms can destroy electronic equipment, power restoration after a power outage can also cause serious voltage surges.
Could you please check my response to "highfigh" ? :) My query is actually only related to the usage of UPSs with audio equipment. :)
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Could you please check my response to "highfigh" ? :) My query is actually only related to the usage of UPSs with audio equipment. :)

All the other things that highfigh and you said are, of course, great advice. :)
If you want the power going to certain devices to stay on, go ahead but make sure the surge protection is excellent. I have used Minuteman surge/UPS for several systems and nothing has been lost- the main use is for security camera DVRs and one has been in constant use since 2009.
 
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stanzlavos

Audiophyte
If you want the power going to certain devices to stay on, go ahead but make sure the surge protection is excellent. I have used Minuteman surge/UPS for several systems and nothing has been lost- the main use is for security camera DVRs and one has been in constant use since 2009.
The question is if the step approximated sine wave from a UPS can cause any problems to the AVR/Sub. :) And if loosing power in itself (no lightning, surge and all - just a power outage) can cause any problem to the AVR/Sub (I have frequent power outages) over time.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Could you please check my response to "highfigh" ? :) My query is actually only related to the usage of UPSs with audio equipment. :)
I knew what was your question about, but other people than you also read posts in this thread and my added comments might be useful to some. :)
 
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stanzlavos

Audiophyte
I knew what was your question about, but other people than you also read posts in this thread and my added comments might be useful to some. :)
Sure. :D

I was just making sure that you did not misunderstand the question in any way. :)
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Field Marshall
If you live in an apartment like I do, then a Panamax or an APC power conditioner will do the job. I use an APC H15 and that provides adequate protection. It even stabilizes the incoming voltage as it has trim and boost features which are useful for wide voltage variations.

Not only the thunderstorms can destroy electronic equipment, power restoration after a power outage can also cause serious voltage surges.
@Verdinut
I forgot about the folks who don't own their own homes ! I apologize. If you're not in a place with your name on the title, then power conditioning equipment makes the best solution. I have an APC UPS system for my computers and then some similar stuff on the music room. I don't see enough problems during a year to justify a whole home surge protector.

Thunderstorms can be death (of course). And yes, so can gettting your power back on be problematic.

The good news is there seem to be lots of good solutions each tailored to our individual circumstances.
 
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stanzlavos

Audiophyte
Well, I got confirmation from SVS that a simulated sine wave should not cause any damage to their subs.

No confirmation from Denon yet. But my dealer said that its usually written on their box that warranty is void if used with a non pure sine wave UPS.

So, a pure sine wave UPS it is. Might as well get an online UPS.
 
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Paul Mohr

Audioholic Intern
I use two UPS's made for computers to run my computer and AV equipment. It works fine. I forget the brand and model right now though. Wasn't the cheapest one I could find, but not the most expensive either. It does monitor and regulate voltage though. Where I live our power goes out a couple times a year at least. And sometimes the power will cycle on and off quickly. These prevent that and give me some time to shut everything off properly. We also had a bad/old main panel for a while. When we got it replaced with a new higher amp one the guy switching it was stunned when he saw it. It was really corroded and janky. He said we were lucky it didn't catch on fire or ruin appliances. He said there was no way we were getting full power to some of the circuits. He even took measurements to show me.
 
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stanzlavos

Audiophyte
I use two UPS's made for computers to run my computer and AV equipment. It works fine. I forget the brand and model right now though. Wasn't the cheapest one I could find, but not the most expensive either. It does monitor and regulate voltage though. Where I live our power goes out a couple times a year at least. And sometimes the power will cycle on and off quickly. These prevent that and give me some time to shut everything off properly. We also had a bad/old main panel for a while. When we got it replaced with a new higher amp one the guy switching it was stunned when he saw it. It was really corroded and janky. He said we were lucky it didn't catch on fire or ruin appliances. He said there was no way we were getting full power to some of the circuits. He even took measurements to show me.
Well I am not sure if its a thing that they do only in India, but my dealer said that its usually written on Denon AVR boxes that warranty is void if used with a non pure sine wave UPS. The regular UPSs usually generate simulated sine wave. Anyhow, I decided to get with a pure sine wave online UPS. :)
 

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