Full setup needed for tiny room: $2-3k budget

[socalrider]

Hi all -- I've been lurking for a few weeks now and thought I'd try and get some help. I've got a 10' deep x 7' wide nook (e.g. 3 walls, open on the right) that I want to convert into a home theater space. The only thing that I can fit on the floor is a narrow (12" wide) sub; everything else has to be up on the walls, including TV and equipment. Wife Acceptance Factor is critical.

System will be primarily for watching football - I'm planning on getting NFL Sunday Ticket and a DVR/Tivo of some sort. After that, it'll be used to stream Netflix, watch DVD/Blueray, and listen to music via Rhapsody.

My priority is getting decent sound out of an unobtrusive sub/sat system. I used to be into audio a while back and I'm a musician so I'm reasonably picky. Questions are...

1. Speakers: thinking seriously about The Speaker Company (TSAT2132T1-HT). One question: for such a narrow wall, is a center channel necessary? They'll be mounted almost directly beside the TV, so it seems they should be able to image the voices directly in the middle of the TV w/o trouble. One other thought I had was the Magnepan MMGW's with tSC sub and rears.

2. TV: haven't put much thought into this. Planning on maybe a 42" 1080p for $800 or so.

3. Some Blueray player for $2-300 or so

4. Netflix streaming, possibly built into Blueray or Tivo

5. TiVo or DVR (any rec's on the DirecTV DVR vs TiVo?)

6. Receiver: I admit to being totally befulddled by the crop of AV receivers out now; I have no idea why they need to be so complicated. Seems almost like I should be able to put everything into the TV and use a block of amps to boost from line to signal level. Anyway, priority is simplicity, sound, then aesthetics (small and light would be nice!)

... so what do you think?

 

[markw]

I'll not get involved in any specifics at this point. I just want to clarify a few things.

0) You can mount the display and the speakers on the wall. You can even have the speakers mounted in the walls if you choose. As you said, the sub is better off floor standing.

1) You definitely need a receiver. There's no way around that. These don't lend themselves to wall mounting. Neither does a BluRay player for that matter.

2) You do want a center channel speaker.

3) If you didn't specify BluRay and would be satisfied with standard DVD's, there are some TV's that have built in DVD players. ..but you would still need a receiver for 5.1 sound.

 

[socalrider]

Thanks -- to clarify, I'd be putting up a shelf for the bluray & receiver!

 

[agarwalro]

Speakers: 5x SVS SBS-01
Sub: SVS PB10-NSD
Receiver: AH $500 AVR comparo. My vote is for the Denon because of the Audessy MultEQ.
BD Player: Oppo BDP-83
TV: That leaves about $500-1000 for this.
Based on this article, 1080p viewing distance to get the benefit of a 42" 1080p display you need to be between 5 and 7 feet from it. Maybe you can get away with 720p depending on your distance.

 

[celica]

Speakers: 5x SVS SBS-01
Sub: SVS PB10-NSD
Receiver: AH $500 AVR comparo. My vote is for the Denon because of the Audessy MultEQ.
BD Player: Oppo BDP-83
TV: That leaves about $500-1000 for this.
Based on this article, 1080p viewing distance to get the benefit of a 42" 1080p display you need to be between 5 and 7 feet from it. Maybe you can get away with 720p depending on your distance.

Quite a nice little set-up there What's the distance difference between 720p and 1080?

 

[Pyrrho]

Quite a nice little set-up there What's the distance difference between 720p and 1080?

That is the number of lines of resolution the TV can display. Obviously, if all else is equal, it is better to have a TV that can display more detail, but:

1) All else is never equal, so for the same amount of money, you can get a bigger (and possibly better in other ways) 720p set than a 1080p set.

2) If you are far enough away from the set, you cannot see the difference between 720p and 1080p anyway, because human vision has limitations. For a 42" set, at 8.19' away (or further), you cannot see more detail than 720p (even if you have 20/20 vision), so it would be foolish to pay for more detail that you will be unable to see. If you have worse than 20/20 vision (like most people), the viewing distance will be closer before you see any difference between 720p and 1080p.

See:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hitech/1137

http://carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/


For precise calculations:

http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/viewing_distance.php

For more links and information, see:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=604832&postcount=9

 

[socalrider]

Wow... so I'd need a 60" TV to be able to tell it's 1080p! I wouldn't have any room on my wall left for speakers. Thanks, I'll get the cheaper 780p TV.

Any other advise? Curious why you think those speakers are better than the tSC setup - they're good bit larger.

 

[shadyJ]

two satellite speaker sets with a good reputation which might also fit your needs:

something from Orb Audio, their super 8 subwoofer is 12" wide.

or maybe a performance package from HSU Research. The STF1 subwoofer is a very highly regarded small sub, and is only 11" wide.

Also, www.accessories4less.com is a great place to go for inexpensive receivers, like refurbished ones and discontinued models.

 

[jostenmeat]

1. Speakers: thinking seriously about The Speaker Company (TSAT2132T1-HT). One question: for such a narrow wall, is a center channel necessary? They'll be mounted almost directly beside the TV, so it seems they should be able to image the voices directly in the middle of the TV w/o trouble. One other thought I had was the Magnepan MMGW's with tSC sub and rears.

2. TV: haven't put much thought into this. Planning on maybe a 42" 1080p for $800 or so.

3. Some Blueray player for $2-300 or so

4. Netflix streaming, possibly built into Blueray or Tivo

5. TiVo or DVR (any rec's on the DirecTV DVR vs TiVo?)

6. Receiver: I admit to being totally befulddled by the crop of AV receivers out now; I have no idea why they need to be so complicated. Seems almost like I should be able to put everything into the TV and use a block of amps to boost from line to signal level. Anyway, priority is simplicity, sound, then aesthetics (small and light would be nice!)

... so what do you think?

Firstly, I am the leader of the bigger-is-better-nooby camp. Secondly, the choice of display is by far the most important choice for a Home Theater. So:

I think this is a good bang for buck, if you are sitting any further than 7'. $2k for a 58" 1080p plasma, and it's a step up from the 80/85u series, which I already think are great values.
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11310781

I know, I know, I just killed 2/3 of the budget.
thanks to adk highlander, I just discovered this, which will please a lot of WAF heavy setups. Retail will be $600, but hopefully less at street. It's shorter than 5" and depth is less than 15". Now, I use a 52 lb receiver acting as prepro to a 68 lbs amp, but this is a good solution for those who have minimal space.
http://us.marantz.com/Products/2926.asp

I'd try a pair of Ascend Acoustics 170SE, whether, new or classifieds. The offaxis response seems to belie their price point, and speakers with good offaxis make for great "phantom" setups, even if only temporary.

And I already blew your budget. When you scrape up another $1k, get an individual 170SE as upright center speaker, a subwoofer, and room treatments, and maybe the first thing is to trap the corners at the front of the room, as it's so narrrow, and relatively small. My 2 cents. Room Acoustics are #2 priority after Display in an HT.

I hope I didn't scare or confuse you. I do think getting better speakers, even if buying less of them to begin with, is the WTG. If you don't mind a more "pro" look, w/o grilles, studio monitors will give you the best bang for buck, whether KRK, Yamaha, Behringer, and the like.


EDIT: forgot the BDP. Panasonic BD60, $200.

 

[davidtwotrees]

You mentioned streaming netflix, and no one has addressed that yet. I own the Samsung BD2550. It streams netflix and pandora internet radio. I LOVE IT. It works like a top. No glitches to date. I have netflix one at a time plan for $9.99, so I get a movie delivered, plus access to their online catalog. And, the picture quality is amazing. The current model is the BDP1600 ($250), or the BDP3600. I can't speak to the LG models, but the LG BD390 is reviewed on the home page of Audioholics........selling for $360 here.

As to the 720P, that is the route I took, and bluray is stunning on my Panasonic. I haven't looked back, and put that money elsewhere.

Accessories 4 Less. I've bought two receivers, and my 184 pound pair of Canton Karats there. I like the Canton Karat speaker line. The Build Quality is excellent. I own two pairs of Cantons. A4L also sells Mordaunt Short. Another euro brand that is overlooked here. Good bang for the buck. A4L sells CHEAP because they sell refurbished products, as well as last years models. My new Canton floorstanders were two years old when I got them...

 

[Pyrrho]

Wow... so I'd need a 60" TV to be able to tell it's 1080p! I wouldn't have any room on my wall left for speakers. Thanks, I'll get the cheaper 780p TV.

Any other advise? Curious why you think those speakers are better than the tSC setup - they're good bit larger.

Be careful how you read the charts. Everything beyond seeing the maximum resolution of 720p will be better if it is 1080p. Thus, if you are sitting closer than 8.19 feet to a 42" set, it will be better to have a 1080p set than a 720p set, though you would have to be 5.46 feet away to see all of the resolution of 1080p (this is all assuming you have 20/20 vision). But anything in between 8.19 and 5.46 feet will be better with a 1080p set than a 720p set. At an intermediate distance, you may be close enough to see only as good as 850p. Well, since they do not make every intermediate resolution, you would want to buy a 1080p set to be able to see that much, as otherwise, you will only be able to see 720p, and a 720p set in such a case will not look so good particularly if it is a fixed pixel display (like an LCD or plasma TV), as you may be able to see individual pixels, which is not good at all.

In short, if you want "perfect clarity", you want to sit no closer than the line for the resolution of your TV in this chart:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/0602_tech_talk2_large.jpg

And then, of course, if your source is of a lessor resolution, it will be "soft" and not perfectly sharp, but you will not be able to actually see individual pixels of the screen if you have a TV with resolution beyond what can be seen at your distance from your TV.


In other words, if you are going to have a 42" TV, if you sit 8.19 feet or farther away, a 720p set will look the same as a 1080p set (if all else is equal, which it usually is not). But if you sit closer than 8.19 feet, it would be better to have a 1080p TV.

 

[socalrider]

Okay... here's what I'm thinking so far:

AVR: HK AVR254, e-bay factory refurb for $260. Might be talked into Marantz 4002 or something else, but the 6002 won't fit!

TV: Panny 50" 720p TC-P50X1 for $850. My eyes aren't good enough for 1080p at 8'.

BRD: Samsung BD-P1600 for $250

Spk: tSC TSAT2132T1-HT for $550. Might be talked up from this too - anyone A/B'ed these against the more expensive stuff?

+DirecTV w/HDDVR & Sunday Ticket

With cables, mount, tax, etc, I should be able to do it for $2200 or so. Seems like a lot of bang for the buck.

 

[markw]

Since you're still under budget, strongly consider looking at 1080p sets. To not do so would be penny wise but pound foolish. The reasons were already stated.

 

[ZeosPantera]

OK, If the "nook" is only 7feet wide and 10feet long details about where you would like to sit and wall materials plus what is behind or outside the nook is important. How high is the ceiling? Where is the nearest window?

If you sit in the middle of the alcove you could be as close as 6 feet from the screen and a 1080p would benefit you.
I recommend anything but a panasonic. Their latest crop has looked terrible even against vizio's cheapest.

The WAF would probably go up alot if you considered some HQ In-Wall speakers. And with such a small space you would get a good sound out of it. There was a small booth in a church my father setup for recording of services and 2 cheap in-walls powered with a 2-watt per channel Radio Shack amp placed into 1/2" sheetrock made that room sing. If done right you will get a better sound out of good set of in walls then any cube system and probably for only a slightly higher price point.

I can recommend the Denon AVR-589 for a quality 5.1 receiver. Runs in the low-mid $200's if you shop around.

Subs under 12" wide may be a harder thing to come across.
Biggest selection of random subs is at Buy.com

http://www.buy.com/merch/q/orderby/4/querytype/electronics/store/8/cscat/2/cvsnid/3277/als/-1/showall.html Let the Hunt Begin.

 

[socalrider]

Thanks, Zeos. Here's some more info about the room:

I'm sitting at the very back of the nook; my head would probably be 8.5' from the TV. We've got plush couches at either end, nothing on the walls except 3 guitars hanging behind my head. Two small windows to the left, and open to the living room on the right.

Interesting to hear your rec against the Panasonic - I'd heard nothing but praise up to this point! Do you have a good alternative?

Re: in-walls; I'm intrigued, but our house is old with plaster & lath. I've found that once you tear into the drywall, it's hard to avoid ending up with a massive gaping hole! The tSC sub/sat system has a ~12" wide sub; hence my interest...

 

[ZeosPantera]

I'm sitting at the very back of the nook; my head would probably be 8.5' from the TV. We've got plush couches at either end, nothing on the walls except 3 guitars hanging behind my head. Two small windows to the left, and open to the living room on the right.

So like this?

Interesting to hear your rec against the Panasonic - I'd heard nothing but praise up to this point! Do you have a good alternative?

I lean toward sharps but they can get pricey. Sony's again are too much money.. Samsungs are a good balance but I cant stand those cheap shiny plastic surrounds!

Re: in-walls; I'm intrigued, but our house is old with plaster & lath. I've found that once you tear into the drywall, it's hard to avoid ending up with a massive gaping hole! The tSC sub/sat system has a ~12" wide sub; hence my interest...

Plaster and Lath... Forget in-walls especially considering the now understood layout. Your going to have a very weird sound dispersion with your setup in that outcrop.

 

[socalrider]

So like this?

I lean toward sharps but they can get pricey. Sony's again are too much money.. Samsungs are a good balance but I cant stand those cheap shiny plastic surrounds!

Plaster and Lath... Forget in-walls especially considering the now understood layout. Your going to have a very weird sound dispersion with your setup in that outcrop.

You nailed it... yup, not an ideal layout unfortunately... let me know if you have any rec's on speakers for such a situation.

Are you a plasma guy or an lcd guy?

 

[redass]

You mentioned streaming netflix, and no one has addressed that yet. I own the Samsung BD2550. It streams netflix and pandora internet radio. I LOVE IT. It works like a top. No glitches to date. I have netflix one at a time plan for $9.99, so I get a movie delivered, plus access to their online catalog. And, the picture quality is amazing. The current model is the BDP1600 ($250), or the BDP3600. I can't speak to the LG models, but the LG BD390 is reviewed on the home page of Audioholics........selling for $360 here.

As to the 720P, that is the route I took, and bluray is stunning on my Panasonic. I haven't looked back, and put that money elsewhere.

Accessories 4 Less. I've bought two receivers, and my 184 pound pair of Canton Karats there. I like the Canton Karat speaker line. The Build Quality is excellent. I own two pairs of Cantons. A4L also sells Mordaunt Short. Another euro brand that is overlooked here. Good bang for the buck. A4L sells CHEAP because they sell refurbished products, as well as last years models. My new Canton floorstanders were two years old when I got them...

+1 to acc4less... I bought the morduant short premiere 302/304 set for $200+ shipping and a open box marantz 4002 for a bedroom setup that sounds about similar in size to the OP's space (maybe slightly bigger). the little speakers sound pretty darn good combined with an 8" velodyne sub, and they're not ugly or space-consuming, and they are easily put up on the wall.

I feel bad that you have to deal with WAF while confined in the corner *whipping sound* I kid

 

[JaminHead]

The PS3 is a nice blu-ray player that can be had on half.com for about $300.

 

[ZeosPantera]

Are you a plasma guy or an lcd guy?

LCD's are fine. I wouldn't immediately scream support for one or the other.

Truthfully if someone insisted on a flat panel I would try to sell them one of these

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002424

Just look at that border! FUDGE!

$3,739.99 for a 52" may seem like alot but to guarantee no shiny cheap black plastic border and even with the low spec's it may be worth it!


Not to be thrown out of here for blasphemy but have you considered getting a receiver and then a good set of headphones? The WAF on that would probably be astronomical.. until she can't watch a movie with you.. then she may have to let you have your way with a REAL room... Just a thought.