6

62InHomeTheater

Enthusiast
#1
Since I have purchased two DefTech BP9060s my Denon Audyssey room EQ has set my BPs to Full Band. I have set them back to small. But should I leave them at Full Band and still set them at 80 Hz?
James
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
1,998 6 1
#2
If you leave them set to full you won’t be able to use an XO unless you use lfe +mains, or double bass” or something like that. Usually those settings make bass a horrible mess. What are your subs? External subs are much better than the ones in def tech speakers so I wouldn’t use them as such.
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
665
#3
Do you have a subwoofer? If so, set for 80 Hz. If no sub, then stick with full band.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
6

62InHomeTheater

Enthusiast
#4
If you leave them set to full you won’t be able to use an XO unless you use lfe +mains, or double bass” or something like that. Usually those settings make bass a horrible mess. What are your subs? External subs are much better than the ones in def tech speakers so I wouldn’t use them as such.
 
6

62InHomeTheater

Enthusiast
#5
I figured as much when I saw I couldn’t set my crossover. So the are back to small and at 80 for the crossover. I have two stand alone DefTech powered subs @12”ea. Along with the two internal 10” subs with 4 bass radiators I have some great bass. Despite what the naysayers say about DefTech 9000series.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
4,994 22 9
#7
If you leave them set to full you won’t be able to use an XO unless you use lfe +mains, or double bass” or something like that.
I know you know what you are saying, but I want to make sure we get the terminology right so as not to cause someone to screw things up. I went to my Denon 4520 to get the exact terms and location in the menu.

I am assuming there is a subwoofer in use.

"Setup Menu" > "Speakers" > "Manual Setup" > "Bass" > "Subwoofer Mode" > "LFE & Main"
is a subwoofer mode which feeds both LFE and the signal below the crossover from the L&R channels to the subwoofer. This is desirable for around 99% of cases!

"Setup Menu" > "Speakers" > "Manual Setup" > "Crossovers" > "Front" > "Full Band"
is generally to be avoided. Instead of "Full Band" a crossover frequency should be selected (most often "80Hz" is used). The "Full Band" setting would result in both your mains and your sub(s) playing the bass, which will generally result in bloated bass. Normally you want to let your subs do what they were made to do and relieve the woofers in your mains from trying to produce the lowest frequencies (which most L & R speakers struggle with at high volume).
I am pretty sure you cannot select "Full Band" unless the speakers are large, but I am not certain.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
988 1 1
#8
Its also possible to stay full range on the towers and run LFE on a sub or subs and just crossover the center and surrounds at the AVR. Really depends on how well the towers are performing in full range.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
1,998 6 1
#9
I know you know what you are saying, but I want to make sure we get the terminology right so as not to cause someone to screw things up. I went to my Denon 4520 to get the exact terms and location in the menu.

I am assuming there is a subwoofer in use.

"Setup Menu" > "Speakers" > "Manual Setup" > "Bass" > "Subwoofer Mode" > "LFE & Main"
is a subwoofer mode which feeds both LFE and the signal below the crossover from the L&R channels to the subwoofer. This is desirable for around 99% of cases!

"Setup Menu" > "Speakers" > "Manual Setup" > "Crossovers" > "Front" > "Full Band"
is generally to be avoided. Instead of "Full Band" a crossover frequency should be selected (most often "80Hz" is used). The "Full Band" setting would result in both your mains and your sub(s) playing the bass, which will generally result in bloated bass. Normally you want to let your subs do what they were made to do and relieve the woofers in your mains from trying to produce the lowest frequencies (which most L & R speakers struggle with at high volume).
I am pretty sure you cannot select "Full Band" unless the speakers are large, but I am not certain.
Hi Kurt. I was working under the idea that the op has “bass capable” towers and therefore using lfe+mains would cause a mess as you and I mentioned.
The first example in your quoted post assumes(to me anyway) that he’d be using mains that don’t have bass capabilities and therefore using lfe+mains on them would basically the same as not using lfe+mains. Maybe I didn’t quite follow what you meant?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,280 19 47
#10
Since I have purchased two DefTech BP9060s my Denon Audyssey room EQ has set my BPs to Full Band. I have set them back to small. But should I leave them at Full Band and still set them at 80 Hz?
James
It's not quite Audyssey doing that, that's Denon setting your speakers to Large/full band; Audyssey recommends when using a sub to set them to small/use a crossover. Do you have a separate sub or are you using the powered woofers in the speakers as subs?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
4,994 22 9
#11
Hi Kurt. I was working under the idea that the op has “bass capable” towers and therefore using lfe+mains would cause a mess as you and I mentioned.
The first example in your quoted post assumes(to me anyway) that he’d be using mains that don’t have bass capabilities and therefore using lfe+mains on them would basically the same as not using lfe+mains. Maybe I didn’t quite follow what you meant?
Yeah, I am assuming most people do not have mains which produce bass as well/easily as their subwoofers would and/or the inability to locate mains for optimal bass suggests letting the sub take those frequencies. There are several good arguments against using your mains for the lowest audible frequencies, but there may well be instances where it might be preferred.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe the percentage of systems where it would be a mistake to use a crossover to the sub for the main signals is in the (very) low single digits!
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
988 1 1
#12
Yeah, I am assuming most people do not have mains which produce bass as well/easily as their subwoofers would and/or the inability to locate mains for optimal bass suggests letting the sub take those frequencies. There are several good arguments against using your mains for the lowest audible frequencies, but there may well be instances where it might be preferred.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe the percentage of systems where it would be a mistake to use a crossover to the sub for the main signals is in the (very) low single digits!
That’s the general case with decent dual subs, however the 9060 towers may extend low. I would try it both ways to see what sounds best. It doesn’t cost anything to play around with it. If the 9060 towers participate to their ability and roll off clean there’s something to work with. Having a couple more sources of “mid bass” might help. Easy to tell which is better by loading up an action movie scene with lots of explosions. :)
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
4,994 22 9
#13
That’s the general case with decent dual subs, however the 9060 towers may extend low. I would try it both ways to see what sounds best. It doesn’t cost anything to play around with it. If the 9060 towers participate to their ability and roll off clean there’s something to work with. Having a couple more sources of “mid bass” might help. Easy to tell which is better by loading up an action movie scene with lots of explosions. :)
It certainly never hurts to try, and after looking at he 9060 and seeing he FR on their powered woofer (which is pretty close to a 10" sub),it is a much better candidate for running full range than many speakers!

As you can see above, the 9060 is down at least 10dB by 200Hz (which is a reasonable top end for a typical subwoofer) except for the case of the minimum (green) setting.

For many full range speakers, the woofers are asked to play into higher frequencies. For an extreme example, the Klipsch RP-280F has dual 8" woofers which play down to 37Hz at -3dB (measured by Brent Butterworth); however, they are crossed over to the horns somewhere around 1700Hz.
I hope someone who knows about the mechanics of speakers, like @TLS Guy or @Dennis Murphy will correct me if I am mistaken, but I believe attempting to play cleanly at 1700Hz while pushing xmax excursions at 37Hz is asking a lot of a driver. Admittedly, this is an extreme example, being a two way speaker, however 3-ways reasonably play up to the 500Hz-800Hz ballpark and in such a case, it seems beneficial to let a subwoofer do the heavy hitting down low.
 

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