Fuel Prices

[Chu Gai]

I've heard that the British have a power generating facility fueled in part by corpses.

 

[DS-21]

The whole thing is BS. Selling price should be determined by actual market conditions, not by what they think will happen. "Our cost may increase, so we need to jack up the selling price by 10% now, just in case..."?

The only way to get there is with heavy regulation and perhaps a revised legal framework for antitrust beyond the Sherman and Clayton Acts. Most Americans seem (rightly or wrongly, though I'm inclined to think more often than not the latter) to disdain regulation in the abstract.

In a "free market," rather than a sovereign setting floors and ceilings, the private actors with the greatest concentrated market power do. In today's world, those actors are the speculators and hedge funds, as well as the oil companies.

That's the free market for you. We have to take the good with the bad. We're the authors of our own misfortune. We (North Americans) buy gas guzzlers and drive everywhere, usually alone. We have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Indeed. I'm actually glad gas prices are rising high and wish they were higher. (So long as they don't rise on the backs of mass-murdered Iranians.) High gas prices create economic pressure for more rational and economically/environmentally sustainable behavior, such as:

(1) Higher-density living
(2) Public support for local mass transit projects.
(3) Rejigging the inefficient goods-distribution system in this country to focus more on efficient rail - yes, I realize much more needs to be built - for long-haul commerce, with road-based transit serving a hub-to-point role in local communities.
(4) Consumers who do need cars for daily transport will buy better ones, and markedly fewer lorries.
(5) Popular pressure to begin to wean the likes of ADM and Monsanto off of the corporate welfare teat, by ending subsidies for energy-inefficient corn ethanol.

 

[s162216]

Stop complaining about petrol/diesel prices!

Over here in the UK (as of the 23rd February according to the AA), the average price per litre for petrol is 135 pence per litre and 142.8 for diesel. That corresponds to a price of $8.12 per US Gallon for petrol, and $8.58 for diesel.

 

[j_garcia]

Stop complaining about petrol/diesel prices!

Over here in the UK (as of the 23rd February according to the AA), the average price per litre for petrol is 135 pence per litre and 142.8 for diesel. That corresponds to a price of $8.12 per US Gallon for petrol, and $8.58 for diesel.

Yes, but you guys actually use diesel. Here, diesel is pretty much for trucks and buses. Only a very small portion of the consumer market is diesel. Last time gas was this high, diesel was higher (~$6/gal) here too.

 

[s162216]

Diesel has been a higher price than petrol since the mid 70's in Britain, more MPG but more expensive.

 

[avliner]

... Oh Lord, stuck in Lodi I am... That was a classic CCR song sung by John Fogerty way back when and he really got stuck in Lodi, due to the lack of fuel back in the 70's, just right after the "oil boom" though...

 

[Chu Gai]

Stop complaining about petrol/diesel prices!

Over here in the UK (as of the 23rd February according to the AA), the average price per litre for petrol is 135 pence per litre and 142.8 for diesel. That corresponds to a price of $8.12 per US Gallon for petrol, and $8.58 for diesel.

You guys ought to complain too.

 

[j_garcia]

You guys ought to complain too.

Anyone who wants to complain about gas prices can stop driving. If you aren't going to stop driving or even reduce the amount you drive, you can't really complain. Prices also reflect the fact that no matter how much most consumers complain about it, they still don't change the one thing that would actually make a difference. If demand suddenly dropped significantly, you'd better believe the prices would drop right through the floor too.

 

[Chu Gai]

Well John, I've been a long time proponent of global population reduction and control! But demand is not going to go down. As the economic stature improves in other countries, they too will demand fuel to power their autos. So even if demand in the US decreases, the refineries will simply export to those countries keeping prices up.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

(1) Higher-density living
...

I am not sure if this is compatible with AH type subwoofers After all, got to have the right priorities.

 

[s162216]

Most of the cost is actually fuel duty on petrol/diesel set by the government which is currently 57.95p per litre, plus VAT tax (20%, which is added onto most goods/services).

The government makes quite a lot of revenue every year on fuel, supposedly to try to encourage use of public transport and reduce emissions.

Breakdown of it explained here:

The Price of Fuel - PetrolPrices.com

The coalition government are trying to get a 'fair fuel stabillier' policy through paliament at the moment to try to keep prices a bit more level so that the duty on fuel falls when the oil prices go above a certain level.

 

[j_garcia]

Well John, I've been a long time proponent of global population reduction and control! But demand is not going to go down. As the economic stature improves in other countries, they too will demand fuel to power their autos. So even if demand in the US decreases, the refineries will simply export to those countries keeping prices up.

Yes, I know. China's recent growth alone has added a huge amount of demand and demand world wide does not show any signs of slowing. I know what reality is, simply stating that if it really bothered people, they can do something about it. We are talking about a culture shift here, and that's not something that generally happens quickly.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

Anyone who wants to complain about gas prices can stop driving. If you aren't going to stop driving or even reduce the amount you drive, you can't really complain. Prices also reflect the fact that no matter how much most consumers complain about it, they still don't change the one thing that would actually make a difference. If demand suddenly dropped significantly, you'd better believe the prices would drop right through the floor too.

I want gas to be cost effective, don't get me wrong.

However, when prices jump up, I immediately see a decrease in traffic in my area (South Florida). My hypothesis is that people start to batch drives (i.e. a trip to Walgreens, the grocery store, the hardware store, etc. in one trip rather than multiple) and nix joy driving or trips not really worth it.

It leaves me wondering why not do this all the time? Like, if gas is cheaper your still SAVING by planning trips, riding with friends and co-workers, and so forth.

Gas price at the pumps, be it 3 or 5 a gallon doesn't really influence my lifestyle significantly when I broke down my expenses......where it really influences my lifestyle is in shipping/cost of petroleum based products/food costs/etc. Yeah, at the pump there is this thing of watching the money drain from your account into your tank, almost painful to watch lol, but you don't have that 'giant money tally digital display' (lol) buying food at the store, or the juice made in a petroleum/plastic based jug that goes up a bit.

Watch your grocery bills, watch your shipping costs, compare those increases to your gas bill and if you aren't a really heavy driver you might be surprised.

 

[Rickster71]

All the conservation methods would work well if Oil/gas was simply a commodity...but it not.
It's mostly used as a political football, similarly to the way children are used as pawns in a divorce.

 

[gmichael]

Anyone who wants to complain about gas prices can stop driving. If you aren't going to stop driving or even reduce the amount you drive, you can't really complain. Prices also reflect the fact that no matter how much most consumers complain about it, they still don't change the one thing that would actually make a difference. If demand suddenly dropped significantly, you'd better believe the prices would drop right through the floor too.

Stop driving? How will I get to work? I already bought the most efficient all wheel drive I could find, and car-pool ta-boot. There are no buses or trains between home and work. Short of quiting my job, what else can I do?

 

[Matt34]

To a point it doesn't matter how conservative the US is. Its a global market, if demand is down here they will just export it overseas. The simply supply and demand model doesn't jive in todays complex global economy, especially when you figure in the completely corrupt political factor.

 

[j_garcia]

I want gas to be cost effective, don't get me wrong.

However, when prices jump up, I immediately see a decrease in traffic in my area (South Florida). My hypothesis is that people start to batch drives (i.e. a trip to Walgreens, the grocery store, the hardware store, etc. in one trip rather than multiple) and nix joy driving or trips not really worth it.

It leaves me wondering why not do this all the time? Like, if gas is cheaper your still SAVING by planning trips, riding with friends and co-workers, and so forth.

I combine trips all the time. I would rather wait and get two or three things done at once than make 3 trips. Not because it is a waste of gas, but because it is a waste of time.

Stop driving? How will I get to work? I already bought the most efficient all wheel drive I could find, and car-pool ta-boot. There are no buses or trains between home and work. Short of quiting my job, what else can I do?

You know what I mean man. I don't mean stop driving completely, but drive less. YOU may do your part to reduce your consumption, but the vast majority don't.

 

[darien87]

Stop driving? How will I get to work? I already bought the most efficient all wheel drive I could find, and car-pool ta-boot. There are no buses or trains between home and work. Short of quiting my job, what else can I do?

Yeah, simply not driving isn't really an option. I used to live about 10 minutes from work but in order to buy a house I had to move about 40 minutes away. We just coulnd't afford anything in the city. I wish there was public transportation between my house and my work. I would seriously consider it if there was.

But I sure as hell have changed my driving habits. I used to cruise at 75 on the freeway, now I cruise at 70. For years I've been turning my car off at red lights when I know I'm going to be waiting for a minute or so. Does it really make a difference? Who knows, but at least it makes me feel better.

 

[DS-21]

To a point it doesn't matter how conservative the US is. Its a global market, if demand is down here they will just export it overseas. The simply supply and demand model doesn't jive in todays complex global economy, especially when you figure in the completely corrupt political factor.

Sure it does, albeit with "supply" and "demand" both being global, rather than merely national factors.

Stop driving? How will I get to work? I already bought the most efficient all wheel drive I could find, and car-pool ta-boot. There are no buses or trains between home and work. Short of quiting my job, what else can I do?

Advocate for more and better mass transit options in your local community, for starters.

 

[gmichael]

Sure it does, albeit with "supply" and "demand" both being global, rather than merely national factors.



Advocate for more and better mass transit options in your local community, for starters.

In my small town 2000ish? Maybe they'll put in a railroad for me to the next state?