front towers, 10inch or dual 8's, which will provide more dynamic bass?

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yes, this is just the living room however so I do not really want to run anything more than front towers. It would look odd having subs and even rear speakers. Now my basement is a different story I may run a few down there haha..

What are you running as mains?
Aesthetics and good audio don't always play well together ;)
 
A

amayseng

Audioholic
I would say that’s a matter of opinion. My wife says all my speakers are ugly but idc. I live here too!!! In fact two of my subs are 40” tall cylinders. My mains are JBL S312II. Yep. 7.3(soon to be 7.3.4) in my living room.
Good for you.

No wife for me. Hell I should just run what I want.

I had considered running Bic or maybe Polk in the rear corners of my tv room, they would not look too bad back there.
 
A

amayseng

Audioholic
600 watts by itself is meaningless, you need to know the sensitivity of the sub and its limits to know if that's meaningful.
Well what do you think about that sub?
Or maybe safer to run an Elac the Andrew Jones model for about 500bucks instead?
I think it runs 400 rms
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
600 watts by itself is meaningless, you need to know the sensitivity of the sub and its limits to know if that's meaningful.
+1 to what lovin said, never judge a subwoofer by its amplifier wattage rating. There are subs with more powerful amplifiers that are far worse performing.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Good for you.

No wife for me. Hell I should just run what I want.

I had considered running Bic or maybe Polk in the rear corners of my tv room, they would not look too bad back there.
Yep. You should. Although it sounds like we’re working on deciding what it actually is that you want lol. Don’t worry, we’ll help spend your money. Valuably of course. Fwiw, I have a pair of old CV D-9’s up in my studio collectivist. Those things pounded for just a pair of passive speakers. Still have them and will put new surround foam in them one of these days.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well what do you think about that sub?
Or maybe safer to run an Elac the Andrew Jones model for about 500bucks instead?
I think it runs 400 rms
Sorry, what sub? I don't remember. I wouldn't ever buy a sub from Elac, sorry. I prefer sub specialists and personally DIY.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Well what do you think about that sub?
Or maybe safer to run an Elac the Andrew Jones model for about 500bucks instead?
I think it runs 400 rms
The Elac subs have some real caveats. They are not performance kings, and they need to be controlled by the smartphone app. If you don't get the smartphone app working with them, there is no way to control them. Again, wattage is no metric of actual performance.
 
A

amayseng

Audioholic
Yep. You should. Although it sounds like we’re working on deciding what it actually is that you want lol. Don’t worry, we’ll help spend your money. Valuably of course. Fwiw, I have a pair of old CV D-9’s up in my studio collectivist. Those things pounded for just a pair of passive speakers. Still have them and will put new surround foam in them one of these days.
Yep, I put new surrounds on mine about two years ago and my front left mid range blew so I replaced it with a high quality mid woofer for about 200 bucks and those things still sound great. I know they are not audiophile grade but they sound fantastic. Hell they are almost 20 years old.

I may just retire the cv's to the basement to go along my plasma and pool table rec/ weight room. That room is essentially an ''L'' layout wise with the main rectangle being the pool table and plasma with av and towers and the off room being the weight room, which you can still see the tv well. Point being I guess I am talking myself into moving the cv's down there haha.. and getting all new towers up here which is where I do more watching at this age.
 
A

amayseng

Audioholic
Sorry, what sub? I don't remember. I wouldn't ever buy a sub from Elac, sorry. I prefer sub specialists and personally DIY.
That is why I am deferring to you guys ha. this is your guys passion for sure. What would you recommend? And thanks for your time I appreciate it
 
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Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
+1 to what lovin said, never judge a subwoofer by its amplifier wattage rating. There are subs with more powerful amplifiers that are far worse performing.
Second this. My sub 1500 only has a 150w amp and I can achieve 105dB in a room just slightly smaller than OP’s (20’x12’). That’s without corner loading in an open backed room. If I were to build something like a Dayton ultimax 15, I’d need about 500w to achieve similar spl because the driver is less efficient, however, it’s likely to dig deeper and go louder with enough power behind it.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
@amayseng
People who complain that a subwoofer doesn’t sound as good as a full range speaker because it doesn’t “come from the same source” come to this conclusion because they have an improperly calibrated system. My subwoofer is perfectly time aligned and level matched the the rest of my speakers. My front two speakers extend down to 32hz, while my sub extends goes to 23hz. Most musical content does not go much below 35-40hz. While listening to music, I can actively switch the speakers in the setup menu of my avr from full range to small (which engages the sub and xover) and hear absolutely no difference in bass output or quality, I can also change the xover point from 40hz to 50hz or 60hz and it sounds nearly identical.

If a subwoofer sounds worse than running your speakers full range you’ve either got the subwoofer level too high/low, the distance settings in your avr wrong, or lastly, the sub placed in a bad position.

Theoretically, below about 80hz , bass is omnidirectional, so placement isn’t that big of a deal. For seamless blending however, especially for music, it’s better to keep the sub along the same wall that the speakers are located in my experience. A 60hz wavelength is about 18’, when two sources are placed within a half wavelength of each other, they should behave as a single radiating source, placing a subwoofer 22’ from your speakers will cause this effect to break down, even with proper time alignment.

As for what would offer greater dynamic headroom, a Klipsch RP-280f with dual 8” woofers will easily outperform the CVs single 10”, but a pair of RP-160ms with a single 6” woofer paired with two 12-15” subs crossed over at 50-60hz would outperform both, and cost about the same.

With your budget, you can get a pair of RP-160ms for about $350 open box on eBay, and two Dayton sub 1500s will run $400 total. If the subs are truly impractical in your room as previously mentioned, id just go for the RP-280fs, those can be had for about $850 open box on eBay.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
I hear the argument of more surface area, but can dual 8s really give off the deepness that a 10 inch woofer will? For front tower speakers


thanks guys
I understand your question is about bass...based on my experience I'm going to say it's possible the two 8" woofers can outperform the single 10".

Bringing it closer to your situation 10 y/o CVs w/10" woofer...vs today's drivers.

I demoed the Revel F208...they have two 8" woofers...I would put them up against your CVs in 2.0 mode...but we're talking about a pr of $5k speakers.
 
A

amayseng

Audioholic
@amayseng
People who complain that a subwoofer doesn’t sound as good as a full range speaker because it doesn’t “come from the same source” come to this conclusion because they have an improperly calibrated system. My subwoofer is perfectly time aligned and level matched the the rest of my speakers. My front two speakers extend down to 32hz, while my sub extends goes to 23hz. Most musical content does not go much below 35-40hz. While listening to music, I can actively switch the speakers in the setup menu of my avr from full range to small (which engages the sub and xover) and hear absolutely no difference in bass output or quality, I can also change the xover point from 40hz to 50hz or 60hz and it sounds nearly identical.

If a subwoofer sounds worse than running your speakers full range you’ve either got the subwoofer level too high/low, the distance settings in your avr wrong, or lastly, the sub placed in a bad position.

Theoretically, below about 80hz , bass is omnidirectional, so placement isn’t that big of a deal. For seamless blending however, especially for music, it’s better to keep the sub along the same wall that the speakers are located in my experience. A 60hz wavelength is about 18’, when two sources are placed within a half wavelength of each other, they should behave as a single radiating source, placing a subwoofer 22’ from your speakers will cause this effect to break down, even with proper time alignment.

As for what would offer greater dynamic headroom, a Klipsch RP-280f with dual 8” woofers will easily outperform the CVs single 10”, but a pair of RP-160ms with a single 6” woofer paired with two 12-15” subs crossed over at 50-60hz would outperform both, and cost about the same.

With your budget, you can get a pair of RP-160ms for about $350 open box on eBay, and two Dayton sub 1500s will run $400 total. If the subs are truly impractical in your room as previously mentioned, id just go for the RP-280fs, those can be had for about $850 open box on eBay.
I will look into those. Thanks for the info much appreciated.
 
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