Front Height Speakers

[Pogre]

I have the extra channels and I have the extra speakers. I've read here that you tend to get more out of your system with front height as opposed to 7.2 with rear surrounds. I have a couple of Deftech Promonitor 1000's with wall mounts and it wouldnt be too difficult to put them up.

I'm assuming if I go with height channels they would be mounted right above the main speakers?

 

[shadyJ]

I don't think I would bother unless its for Atmos or DTS:X channels. Otherwise it is just matrixed sound. It wouldn't look too pretty either, especially if you can't hide the wires within the walls.

 

[Pogre]

I don't think I would bother unless its for Atmos or DTS:X channels. Otherwise it is just matrixed sound. It wouldn't look too pretty either, especially if you can't hide the wires within the walls.

Yup. Hiding wires would be a pain and I'm looking at my front wall right now, imagining how they'd look up there, and "pretty" is definitely not coming to mind. lol. Just wondered since I already have everything if it'd be worth the effort.

 

[music4cities]

If you want to do this, and I have not idea if its worth it or not, but what else are you going to do with the extra speakers. And sounds lie a fun weekend project! I say rig them up temporary style somehow and see if its worth a permanent install.

couple ideas for that if you are handy.

1) drop wires behind the drywall, if it is drywall. It is not super hard unless there is bracing in the way what would stop the wire...there often is. You should get wire rated for in wall installation. it is a bit messy. but not as messy as gutting a cow.

or

2) you could get some tape speaker wire. Such as this stuff:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005SUM1PO/ref=asc_df_B005SUM1PO5149652/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B005SUM1PO&linkCode=df0&hvadid=194017009123&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3036499668212249695&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027581&hvtargid=pla-311461664304

Apparently, not only will this stuff stick onto the wall, it is thin enough that you can also also spakel over it, like it was drywall tape, and then lightly sand and paint it to make it invisible.

The termination is a pain apparently unless you use their terminal block adapter things.

I have never used this and the geometry may create high levels of capacitance but I think its fine for relatively short runs and use like you are talking about.

There are other gauges and some other companies make similar stuff for a bit less.

3) REALLY nice looking wires...

 

[lovinthehd]

I have the extra channels and I have the extra speakers. I've read here that you tend to get more out of your system with front height as opposed to 7.2 with rear surrounds. I have a couple of Deftech Promonitor 1000's with wall mounts and it wouldnt be too difficult to put them up.

I'm assuming if I go with height channels they would be mounted right above the main speakers?

Believe heights should be above but a bit wider spread than the mains...I've considered front heights for a while but the wiring/aesthetics keeps me pushing it off into the future....

 

[Pogre]

If you want to do this, and I have not idea if its worth it or not, but what else are you going to do with the extra speakers. And sounds lie a fun weekend project! I say rig them up temporary style somehow and see if its worth a permanent install.

couple ideas for that if you are handy.

1) drop wires behind the drywall, if it is drywall. It is not super hard unless there is bracing in the way what would stop the wire...there often is. You should get wire rated for in wall installation. it is a bit messy. but not as messy as gutting a cow.

or

2) you could get some tape speaker wire. Such as this stuff:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005SUM1PO/ref=asc_df_B005SUM1PO5149652/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B005SUM1PO&linkCode=df0&hvadid=194017009123&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3036499668212249695&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027581&hvtargid=pla-311461664304

Apparently, not only will this stuff stick onto the wall, it is thin enough that you can also also spakel over it, like it was drywall tape, and then lightly sand and paint it to make it invisible.

The termination is a pain apparently unless you use their terminal block adapter things.

I have never used this and the geometry may create high levels of capacitance but I think its fine for relatively short runs and use like you are talking about.

There are other gauges and some other companies make similar stuff for a bit less.

3) REALLY nice looking wires...

Thank you for the suggestions! I might just stick 'em up there in a temp setup and give 'em a whirl.

1.) This will likely be what I'll go with if I decide to go permanent. Great analogy, btw. I've gutted many cows so I do have a point of reference. At least I won't have to shovel up sh!t and blood and rent a gut truck.

2.) That stuff looks interesting and just might be passable for the distances and what they'll be doing. I don't watch much tv anymore. I've been listening to a lot more music since I joined this site. In other words, they won't see a lot of action. I do have a can of spray spackle and some basic spackle skillz. This would probably be easiest.

3.) I like it! Buy some purty cables and be the talk of the town!

I'm only asking about front height speakers as a way to utilize my extra speakers. I don't really have space for rear surrounds and I'd have to get different speakers for atmos, I believe, and crawling around in the attic when it's still 110°+ outside is very unappealing to me right now.

 

[KEW]

In-wall is really not difficult and makes for a clean install:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H348RO2/ref=asc_df_B00H348RO25149700/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B00H348RO2&linkCode=df0&hvadid=194017009123&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1705762947241957921&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010844&hvtargid=pla-312526711821

However, if it is an exterior wall, you would need to keep on this side of the insulation!

 

[yepimonfire]

Believe heights should be above but a bit wider spread than the mains...I've considered front heights for a while but the wiring/aesthetics keeps me pushing it off into the future....

DSX is a 45 degree angle, PLIIz is a 22-30 degree angle, directly above the front speakers.

I think PLIIz is worth doing if you’ve got extra channels and the speakers, it definitely adds a good deal of envelopment by routing ambient sounds to the heights. I wouldn’t bother installing in wall speakers, especially since that’s a much more permanent solution. If in the future you wanted to upgrade to atmos, you’re stuck with front heights.

What receiver do you have?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pogre]

DSX is a 45 degree angle, PLIIz is a 22-30 degree angle, directly above the front speakers.

I think PLIIz is worth doing if you’ve got extra channels and the speakers, it definitely adds a good deal of envelopment by routing ambient sounds to the heights. I wouldn’t bother installing in wall speakers, especially since that’s a much more permanent solution. If in the future you wanted to upgrade to atmos, you’re stuck with front heights.

What receiver do you have?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Marantz SR6011. I've been toying with the idea of going atmos. I would need to get some prime elevation speakers for that (vaulted ceilings). I'm pretty happy with 5.2. I just figured since I had the speakers...

 

[yepimonfire]

Marantz SR6011. I've been toying with the idea of going atmos. I would need to get some prime elevation speakers for that (vaulted ceilings). I'm pretty happy with 5.2. I just figured since I had the speakers...

The sr 6011 has dts x and atmos, if you mount front heights, that is
Atmos. Why not just mount them to the ceiling with an omnimount? That’s what I have In my setup


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pogre]

The sr 6011 has dts x and atmos, if you mount front heights, that is
Atmos. Why not just mount them to the ceiling with an omnimount? That’s what I have In my setup


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because I don't want to crawl around in my attic while it's 110 outside.

 

[panteragstk]

Because I don't want to crawl around in my attic while it's 110 outside.

Wuss. I'm going to do it in the next week or so. I've only got 13 wires to run...

 

[Darenwh]

I was considering picking up a set of used speakers to do this with myself.

I saw a set of Klipsch Horns at an estate sale recently and eyed them for a few minutes but then I thought, No, need to look for something a little smaller...

 

[yepimonfire]

I was considering picking up a set of used speakers to do this with myself.

I saw a set of Klipsch Horns at an estate sale recently and eyed them for a few minutes but then I thought, No, need to look for something a little smaller...

Ha, I saw a poster on avsforum who mounted Heresey’s to their ceiling for atmos. Overkill? Yup. F******* awesome anyways? Definitely!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shadyJ]

Ha, I saw a poster on avsforum who mounted Heresey’s to their ceiling for atmos. Overkill? Yup. F******* awesome anyways? Definitely!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually, Heresys might have too narrow of a dispersion pattern for Atmos height speakers, unless the ceiling was very high. They would not be my first choice for that role.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

Believe heights should be above but a bit wider spread than the mains...I've considered front heights for a while but the wiring/aesthetics keeps me pushing it off into the future....

very few movies out there for me to justify the trouble of installing height speakers.

 

[yepimonfire]

Actually, Heresys might have too narrow of a dispersion pattern for Atmos height speakers, unless the ceiling was very high. They would not be my first choice for that role.

Agree. Even the heresy III, which uses the new horn used in the cinema and premier series (with better directivity), has a 90x60 dispersion pattern. The guy has a 7.1.4 setup I believe, even with the speakers properly aimed, somebody is probably going to be more than 30 degrees off axis vertically, I just thought it was hilarious the guy went through all that trouble to mount them to the ceiling. He then proceeded to ask avsforum whether or not it was overkill, since the guys over at Klipsch forums told him it was.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-theory-setup-chat/2837745-these-klipsch-heresy-height-atmos-speakers-overkill.html

I have reference II series mounted to my ceiling in a 5.1.2 config, difference is, I have them aimed so that the seating area is fully covered horizontally and vertically, off axis seats are off axis with respect to the horizontal pattern, so it all works out mostly okay. The RB 10 has a pretty well controlled 90 degree horizontal dispersion out to about 10khz, however, the II series horns get pretty ugly vertically off axis.

Unfortunately, Klipsch hasn’t made any bookshelves with threaded mounting hardware in their new line, otherwise that’s what I’d be using. Based on the polar maps, the reference premier series would actually do very well for atmos, Dolby’s HT atmos installation guide recommends ceiling speakers have a +-45 degree dispersion pattern from 100hz-10khz (-6dB), the RP series has a dispersion of +-45 degrees up to 14khz, and actually does okay out to about 60 degrees at 10khz.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yepimonfire]

very few movies out there for me to justify the trouble of installing height speakers.

Dolby’s and DTS’ Surround and Neural X up mixers work so well you don’t even need discrete content. Even if there were no Blu-ray’s with atmos or dts x mixes released I’d still recommend upgrading. There is a really long thread on avsforum about Dolby Surround up mixing, with people being so impressed they recommended upgrading even back when atmos for ht was new and content very limited. In addition, there are more and more new movies being released in object based formats.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1706505-official-dolby-surround-upmixing-thread.html

Here’s a 10 page long list of atmos Blu-ray’s. Nearly every new release from warner, lionsgate, Sony, and universal is atmos encoded.

Dts x is a bit behind, but movies continue to be released in it as well. http://www.nextgenhometheater.com/dtsx-blu-ray-movies/

Also check out the link in my signature.

Neural X is actually so good at object tracking on many movies that if I told you a movie was atmos encoded and it wasn’t, but only unmixed, you’d probably believe me.

Dolby surround works so perfectly on stereo music that I can hardly go back to 2 channel listening, it never redirects anything inappropriately to the surrounds and heights, if you get a chance to hear classical recordings up mixed, it will blow you away, all that phase and spatial information trapped in the 2ch recording is decided out so perfectly it nearly sounds like a real live venue, and I have been to more symphonies than I can count, so I have a good idea of what it should sound like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Darenwh]

Agree. Even the heresy III, which uses the new horn used in the cinema and premier series (with better directivity), has a 90x60 dispersion pattern. The guy has a 7.1.4 setup I believe, even with the speakers properly aimed, somebody is probably going to be more than 30 degrees off axis vertically, I just thought it was hilarious the guy went through all that trouble to mount them to the ceiling. He then proceeded to ask avsforum whether or not it was overkill, since the guys over at Klipsch forums told him it was.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-theory-setup-chat/2837745-these-klipsch-heresy-height-atmos-speakers-overkill.html

I have reference II series mounted to my ceiling in a 5.1.2 config, difference is, I have them aimed so that the seating area is fully covered horizontally and vertically, off axis seats are off axis with respect to the horizontal pattern, so it all works out mostly okay. The RB 10 has a pretty well controlled 90 degree horizontal dispersion out to about 10khz, however, the II series horns get pretty ugly vertically off axis.

Unfortunately, Klipsch hasn’t made any bookshelves with threaded mounting hardware in their new line, otherwise that’s what I’d be using. Based on the polar maps, the reference premier series would actually do very well for atmos, Dolby’s HT atmos installation guide recommends ceiling speakers have a +-45 degree dispersion pattern from 100hz-10khz (-6dB), the RP series has a dispersion of +-45 degrees up to 14khz, and actually does okay out to about 60 degrees at 10khz.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My room has only 8' tall ceilings. Something tells me that's not high enough for the Horns to be mounted. I could probably just mount then on top of my Phase Tech Velocity 12's and that would raise them high enough above the listening area to be height speakers but I suspect that would present a bit of a tip hazard...

 

[everettT]

Not sure about your home @porge, but every house I've owned or help install in wall wiring, there has been a fire stop (cross brace) in between each stud and they are staggered at different heights every other stud. Flexible drill bits and Bang Stix make this an easy fix.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00W9SIYKY/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1506778105&sr=8-8&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=flexible+drill+bit&dpPl=1&dpID=21rOY-8XKTL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007SUH5FS/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1506778267&sr=8-9&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=fiberglass+wire+pull+rods