Format War Pricing Aftermath: Blu-ray Up, HD-DVD Down

[deanmurphy]

I suppose I should not feel too ripped off. I do live in the better country! I should not take that for granted. Thanks for the reminder! (Actually just kidding!!!! Really!!!! My aunty is American. I would actually love to visit your country one day. Especially New York, Nashville and San Francisco. Out of the whole entire world though I want to do Canada and Alaska, that is my dream).

 

[rgriffin25]

Now this is funny...

All you guys who are saying "when Blu-ray gets to $xxx.xx I'll consider buying one" are full of crap! Let me explain... Most if not all of you own nice A/V equipment, and your trying to tell us that the BD players are too expensive?? Lets see here... a certain member here has 120" screen, Velodyne DD-15 subwoofer, Paradigm Speakers, Denon Receiver and cannot afford a $400 BD player? Do you guys really want to buy the consumer / walmart quality players when they come out? Oh wait I know what you will do... Buy the newly released Denon BD player for $600.

Lets be honest guys, here are some legitimate reasons you do not want a blu-ray player.

1. Profile 2.0 / BD live. I can see how this profile could have its advantages.

2. Lack of internal HD/lossless audio decoding of all formats. (I'll agree with you on this arguement, talk about a frustrating time trying to get the most out of your new player)

And the most obvious reason...

3. Sour Grapes i.e. trying to start arguements with us BD player owners about why our format won't survive.

My response for this is simple. Guys, I am sorry your format lost.

 

[Johnd]

Hah! LOL!!!

That's a good post rgriffin, but after reading it I'm not sure which side is to have the "sour grapes," BD or HD owners?

You may be referring to me, as I have all of that equipment (except I have a servo 15, not a DD18 ). And my comment was, is and always will be:
- when they get it right I may consider buying into BD
- I only bought into HD because of the pricepoint...wasn't even in the market til the sales began...and then the firesales began on the players.

Last time I was at a b&m store, all of the BD titles were full msrp (except two), and their cheapest player was $400.00 No thanks. I wasn't born with a silver spoon, and I work for my money. Too rich for my blood. On the other hand, getting two A35's and 70 HD discs for about $800 was a no brainer, particularly since my old Denon player had just died.

Sorry? Sour Grapes? Detest BD? Never. Would I like BD to be close to this pricepoint? Yes. But why would I bite the hand that has fed me? That is, were it not because of these cheap prices (initially competition, then due to HD's downfall) I never would have been introduced to HD, and I never would have gotten two flagship players and 70 disc for $800.

Sour grapes is non-HD owners disavowing HD owner's joy in great prices in hardware and software. I'm not here to rub anybody's face in it, especially now that most of the deals are expired, but I've been challenged more than once on my purchase prices. Funny thing is, that invariably comes from non-HD owners: the price drops were advertised all over the board and the forums and the retailers sites. How could the inquirer not know that? Becuase they're not in the market for HD. But then, why would they be challenging me on the prices I've paid?

I would not have gotten into HD were it not for the terrific pricing. Other members here have stated the same (Birdonthebeach so stated). And I have never looked back. And for the time being, not remotely in the market for BD. Why would I be? I have two flagship players, and titles are still being sold at heavily discounted prices. I'm a pea in a pod.

 

[patnshan]

1. Profile 2.0 / BD live. I can see how this profile could have its advantages.

2. Lack of internal HD/lossless audio decoding of all formats. (I'll agree with you on this arguement, talk about a frustrating time trying to get the most out of your new player)

And the most obvious reason...

3. Sour Grapes i.e. trying to start arguements with us BD player owners about why our format won't survive.

My response for this is simple. Guys, I am sorry your format lost.

How about many of us got into HD media when we could purchase the player for $200 with 8 free movies and would love to do the same with Blu Ray. To purchase a player in the $300 range without any free movies with the picture quality and sound we are used to already with HD DVD is too much to ask? Maybe it is but it is not sour grapes, rolleyes:.

For me, the real sticking pount is #1 and #2. You lost me with #3. I could care less what format wins as long as the price of entry is "reasonable". I don't like Sony but am willing to live with them. Heck, I don't like oil companies either but have to buy their gas. Obviously, reasonable is in the eye of the beholder but I suspect that most folks think $400 to $500 for a player than cannot do everything that a given format offers is too much. They were willing to sacrifice a bit with a $100 to $200 player, but not twice that. I will likely suck it up and buy a PS3 for $299 but not without some trepidation.

Pat


Pat

 

[Johnd]

Sour Grapes

How about many of us got into HD media when we could purchase the player for $200 with 8 free movies and would love to do the same with Blu Ray. To purchase a player in the $300 range without any free movies with the picture quality and sound we are used to already with HD DVD is too much to ask? Maybe it is but it is not sour grapes, rolleyes:.

For me, the real sticking pount is #1 and #2. You lost me with #3. I could care less what format wins as long as the price of entry is "reasonable". I don't like Sony but am willing to live with them. Heck, I don't like oil companies either but have to buy their gas. Obviously, reasonable is in the eye of the beholder but I suspect that most folks think $400 to $500 for a player than cannot do everything that a given format offers is too much. They were willing to sacrifice a bit with a $100 to $200 player, but not twice that. I will likely suck it up and buy a PS3 for $299 but not without some trepidation.

Pat


Pat

Likewise Pat. I don't know if he just got kicked out of the house, or was drunk when he wrote that post , but apparently rgriffin hasn't read our posts (and birdonthebeach's and others).

I for one never stated that I "could not afford a $400 BD player," but like you and botb I stated that the thing that prompted me to get into HD was $150 hardware and $10-$15 software. Plain and simple. Wasn't even in the market until the deals came around. Posted as much repeatedly. Must have been in invisible ink.

And then to be further discounted by the statement:
"All you guys who are saying "when Blu-ray gets to $xxx.xx I'll consider buying one" are full of crap!"
is well, just rude. Why would I lie? If it's still around, I may buy into BD when it hits $150 hardware for a decent player and $10-$15 software because HD software is inevitably going to dry up. That's not to say my existing titles turn to vapor, but if the difference between an SD and a BD title is a mere $5, I'll opt for the latter.

And then Mr. Griffin proposes the only options for us lowly HD owners is the cheapy Walmart special, or a mid/high class Denon. Sheeesh. Hardly. And then he brashly accuses us of picking fights with the poor, downtrodden BD owners, so they have to call in teacher (a moderator) to finish the fight for them. Sheeesh.

Sour Grapes?


It's pretty obvious who has 'em!

 

[PENG]

And the most obvious reason...

3. Sour Grapes i.e. trying to start arguements with us BD player owners about why our format won't survive.

My response for this is simple. Guys, I am sorry your format lost.

I bought my HD DVD players after the "format lost", for a total of less than $220 with 2 players and 9 movies. It seems to me this sour grapes thing might apply more to people (may be youself?) who, deep down, feel they had paid more, for less.

 

[patnshan]

Sour Grapes





Likewise Pat. I don't know if he just got kicked out of the house, or was drunk when he wrote that post , but apparently rgriffin hasn't read our posts (and birdonthebeach's and others).

Sour Grapes?


It's pretty obvious who has 'em!

I don't know, I'm reading this on 3 glasses of Aussie Shiraz and understand you fully! And I can say with some authority that the grapes used to make this Tapestry Shiraz are not sour! Yes this is an endorsement
Thanks,
Pat

 

[rgriffin25]

While I enjoy your humor guys, I hate to disappoint.. But, the format I decided to go with WON. No Sour Grapes here! I don't have the necessity to run out and buy all the HD DVDs I can find before they disappear. Which brings me to this question, are there really 80 HD DVDs worth owning??

The point I was trying to make was for most of us $400 is a drop in the bucket compared to everything else we have invested into our home theater.

As far as the Walmart BD player... Most if not all of us Audioholics refuse to buy electronics at Walmart. So to say you are going to buy the 1st BD player that hits $150 saying your more concerned with price than quality. Which is ironic after seeing what you guys have invested in your current rig.

Im sure we could go on and on but I have some movies I'd like to go watch. Thought I would check out "3:10 to Yuma", "Sunshine", and "I am Legend".

 

[Johnd]

Sour Grapes?

I don't know, I'm reading this on 3 glasses of Aussie Shiraz and understand you fully! And I can say with some authority that the grapes used to make this Tapestry Shiraz are not sour! Yes this is an endorsement
Thanks,
Pat

Of course you can Pat! Some of that good Shiraz from Oz coupled with the crystal wisdom granted only to us HD bretheren does it every time.
Enjoy your evening.

 

[Johnd]

While I enjoy your humor guys, I hate to disappoint.. But, the format I decided to go with WON. No Sour Grapes here! I don't have the necessity to run out and buy all the HD DVDs I can find before they disappear. Which brings me to this question, are there really 80 HD DVDs worth owning??

The point I was trying to make was for most of us $400 is a drop in the bucket compared to everything else we have invested into our home theater.

As far as the Walmart BD player... Most if not all of us Audioholics refuse to buy electronics at Walmart. So to say you are going to buy the 1st BD player that hits $150 saying your more concerned with price than quality. Which is ironic after seeing what you guys have invested in your current rig.

Im sure we could go on and on but I have some movies I'd like to go watch. Thought I would check out "3:10 to Yuma", "Sunshine", and "I am Legend".

Meh. Didn't care much for Legend Mr. Griffin. Gonna go watch 300 and Beowulf tonight myself (in HD).

 

[rgriffin25]

Meh. Didn't care much for Legend Mr. Griffin. Gonna go watch 300 and Beowulf tonight myself (in HD).

Touche sir Johnd, you had to pull out Beowulf...

 

[Johnd]

Touche sir Johnd, you had to pull out Beowulf...

Yes...Beowulf is reference quality cgi.

But here's another thing that makes the deal sweeter for HD owners who bought from BB. They are automatically sending out $50 gift cards to all stand alone HD purchasers (bought prior to 2-23-08). They are also now offering a trade in offer HD for BD...no thanks. I'll take the $50...practically makes mine free. Sour grapes? SWEET VICTORY!!!

 

[bancroft]

I've read the complete list of comments and felt inclined to jump in.

I am happy that Blu Ray will be the method we will use to watch and listen to hi def. I didn't say "win" because this is not appropriate. I, like so many others, simply want to watch and listen to the best that we can and within all of our respective budgets. Sorry, no more, no less. It's that simple.

But, if there is not widespread acceptance, our "Blu" lives will be short live. Sure, we're early adopters, but this needs broader appeal to succeed.

I help a lot of friends with their buying decisions because they need help from someone they trust. When they watch my hi def picture during "movie night" at my house, they DON'T ask me what player I have or if its Blu or HD. They ask, "how much will that cost if I install this on my system". I tell them the player costs and the cost premium for the Hi Def DVD's and they say no thanks. It's not worth it.

This is Blu's and our, my friends, biggest problem. It's not the lack of 2.0 or hi def DTS MA. They like it but they're not going to spend that much!

The day after Thanksgiving, I got in line at an electronics store for a friend to by a non HD product. HDDVD players were aggressively priced for a short period of time, "while they last". Their were very few "early adopters" in this line but the people were commical to me as they spoke of their purchase of a "cheap" hddvd player even though they were clueless as to what its capabilities were. They were buying on price.

If players stay at $400 and above, then we will suffer because the "blu" window of opportunity will be lost and the hype will also go away. By also having players priced at $1,000 and up, many of these next tier buyers get the feeling they might be buying a product that is missing something. If they feel strongly, they may wait thinking more can be had for less if they wait.

This is our problem. As a point of reference, I'm not too concerned with price but I want to spend my money on something that works and gives me a decent run before I need to replace it.

I own a Sony "ruby", Stewert 130 "100 inches" and a Pioneer 50" elite plasma so give me a decent product. I'll sell the benefits to my friends. But you MUST make it affordable to the next tier of buyer.

Thanks and have a nice day.

 

[Audioholics]

Blu-ray has the capability of being a simple transport with newer AV receivers equipped with HDMI. With this being the case, I see no reason why someone can't offer a line of very inexpensive players that handle all the new formats and have only a power, HDMI and Ethernet connection on the back by Christmas. Nothing else.

By all means make the others as well, but a line of inexpensive Blu-ray transports would be a good thing for the market.

 

[Nimrod]

Lenny Kraritz

 

[dobyblue]

By all means make the others as well, but a line of inexpensive Blu-ray transports would be a good thing for the market.

According to Warren News (http://www.warren-news.com/CEservices.htm) and Consumer Electronics Daily, Wal*Mart are expected to have the Funai-made Sylvania player on their shelves for no more than $249 by Q3/08, so what that price will be over the last fortnight or so before Christmas, and on Black Friday, is anyone's guess, but less than $249 would be a starting point.

This will support bitstreaming of all the audio formats, ethernet port and Bonus View, as well as HDMI 1.3.

If players stay at $400 and above

They absolutely will not. It doesn't really matter what happens over the course of the next few months, it is Q3 and Q4 that will be very telling for whether or not Blu-ray has a chance of being mass market adopted. By that time both Paramount and Universal (as well as Weinstein) will be releasing on Blu-ray and the consumer market will be there for the taking. Now we just have to wait and see.

Universal won't get anything out on Blu (they were pretty caught out) until this Summer, which means two of their biggest movies, The Incredible Hulk and Hellboy 2, will see the light of 1080p24.

 

[Davidt1]

Just got back from Fry's and BB. More and more BR titles are selling for $15. I saw some people buying BR stuff. I hate to say it but it appears that BR is here to stay. It will take off big time once players sell for around $200.

 

[allargon]

Blu-ray has the capability of being a simple transport with newer AV receivers equipped with HDMI. With this being the case, I see no reason why someone can't offer a line of very inexpensive players that handle all the new formats and have only a power, HDMI and Ethernet connection on the back by Christmas. Nothing else.

By all means make the others as well, but a line of inexpensive Blu-ray transports would be a good thing for the market.

Clint, I'm not sure where you've been. However, Denon plans to do just such a thing this spring. Well, they forgot about the Ethernet connection. It's only a profile 1.1 player. Moreover, it's $1k.

http://www.usa.denon.com/beyond/products/DVD-2500BTCI.html

The cheaper Toshiba and Venturer players had the right idea of forgoing multichannel audio outputs (heresy here).

Just got back from Fry's and BB. More and more BR titles are selling for $15. I saw some people buying BR stuff. I hate to say it but it appears that BR is here to stay. It will take off big time once players sell for around $200.

Are you sure those aren't the same people that always show up for a sale? It's been a good while since there's been a decent sale on Blu-Ray media. With this and the Target BOGO, people decided to show up again. I do agree that sales will take off once players come below $200.

 

[Audioholics]

Clint, I'm not sure where you've been. However, Denon plans to do just such a thing this spring. Well, they forgot about the Ethernet connection. It's only a profile 1.1 player. Moreover, it's $1k.

Comedy GOLD my friend! lol