For Stereo Listening, Whats wrong with Active Monitors

[gajraaj]

Finally Bought

Guys

After some auditions, I finally decided to setup a traditional AMP + Passive Speaker systems for my stereo listening. I now have a

NAD C 326BEEE Integratee Amp +
a pair of B&W 685s

They are still not run in but are already sounding well.

I have some further questions if you can help.

1. Placement : Right now they are placed on either sides of my TV (27" CRT) on the same TV shelf. Its a low shelf so the hight of the tweeter is about 26 Inches / 65 cm from ground. They are about 50 Inches / 120 cms apart and 12 inches/ 25 cm away from the back wall. The back wall is about 15 feet / 5 meters.

In this setup, I do not hear a distinct sound stage, even with the best recording. Do you think investing in speaker stands would be a good idea.

2. DVD : I have also connected the stereo outs of my DVD player to the amp. When I play a music CD on this player it sounds better than if I play a DVD. Is it because the DVD is encoded 5.1?

thanks for your feedback.

Ravi

 

[davidtwotrees]

RAvi went passive........ok. I have been oogling active monitors for some time now. The one drawback I've seen in readily available ones is asthetics. Black is the one offereing across the board. Except for the Quad 12L and 11L...and even those aren't offered in wood in N. America. Linn has a whole bunch of Aktiv offerings, but the prices are up there. Dynaudio has some pro monitors, but I have yet to find one in wood. I am pooling funds for the Quads in Cherry, but until then, does anyone have any others I'm missing? I also have checked into DIY but haven't seen any plans.........it's a tough google because throwing active in with the search brings up all the active mentions for subwoofer DIY as they are the main DIY at the moment..............any DIY for Active monitors out there? Kits? Isiberian...........TLS?

 

[KEW]

DavidTwoTrees,
I have a pair of Focal Solo6 Be active monitors ($2400, including amps, of course).
They are not exceptionally elegant speakers, but they do have a nice swirled red wood finish on the side panels and are not so utilitarian as most active monitors.


The Focal Solo6's are bi-amped with active crossover and noticeably quicker with transients than the Paradigm Signature S2 or the Salk SongTowers. This quickness is most apparent to my ear in bringing out the details of sounds like fingers on strings (by giving quick starts and stops to these sounds), make a rim tap excitingly quick, and show up in the timbre of lower sax notes, growl of an electric bass, or blatt of lower notes played loudly on brass such as trombone or tuba. Highly syncopated guitar is also better represented on these speakers.

I wonder if the active crossover before the amps is the most likely reason for this substantial difference in performance.
Thoughts?

 

[djreef]

DavidTwoTrees,
I have a pair of Focal Solo6 Be active monitors ($2400, including amps, of course).
They are not exceptionally elegant speakers, but they do have a nice swirled red wood finish on the side panels and are not so utilitarian as most active monitors.


The Focal Solo6's are bi-amped with active crossover and noticeably quicker with transients than the Paradigm Signature S2 or the Salk SongTowers. This quickness is most apparent to my ear in bringing out the details of sounds like fingers on strings (by giving quick starts and stops to these sounds), make a rim tap excitingly quick, and show up in the timbre of lower sax notes, growl of an electric bass, or blatt of lower notes played loudly on brass such as trombone or tuba. Highly syncopated guitar is also better represented on these speakers.

I wonder if the active crossover before the amps is the most likely reason for this substantial difference in performance.
Thoughts?

My thinking is that it would stand to reason given that the amp isn't having to fight through the crossover to deliver signal to the drivers.

DJ

 

[lsiberian]

DavidTwoTrees,
I have a pair of Focal Solo6 Be active monitors ($2400, including amps, of course).
They are not exceptionally elegant speakers, but they do have a nice swirled red wood finish on the side panels and are not so utilitarian as most active monitors.


The Focal Solo6's are bi-amped with active crossover and noticeably quicker with transients than the Paradigm Signature S2 or the Salk SongTowers. This quickness is most apparent to my ear in bringing out the details of sounds like fingers on strings (by giving quick starts and stops to these sounds), make a rim tap excitingly quick, and show up in the timbre of lower sax notes, growl of an electric bass, or blatt of lower notes played loudly on brass such as trombone or tuba. Highly syncopated guitar is also better represented on these speakers.

I wonder if the active crossover before the amps is the most likely reason for this substantial difference in performance.
Thoughts?

That doesn't make any sense from a physics standpoint. Electricity moves lightspeed practically. Going through a crossover wouldn't make difference in the speed of a speaker. This is crazy talk.

 

[djreef]

That doesn't make any sense from a physics standpoint. Electricity moves lightspeed practically. Going through a crossover wouldn't make difference in the speed of a speaker. This is crazy talk.

Yea, but you have to concede that the crossover in many designs are the weak link in the system. So, by deduction, eliminating this can only improve the design/performance.

Of course, I must qualify this by stating not only am I a fully active advocate, I am also it's member.

DJ

 

[lsiberian]

So, by deduction, eliminating this can only improve the design/performance.

It can hurt performance to eliminate a well designed crossover. Going active isn't always the better design. Also just because a speaker is active doesn't mean it employs no crossover. Most I would postulate use a passive one. I'd bet the Focal uses a passive crossover too.

 

[KEW]

I have it on good authority that these speakers have an active crossover. They have 150W BASH amps for the mids and 100W Class A-B for the tweeter.

What do you think is the source of the speed of these speakers. The Paradigm Signature and the Salk SongTower have pretty good drivers. Do you think the Focal drivers are that much better? I used an Adcom GFA-545 mk II stereo power amp to drive the passive speakers, do you think this is the source of the problem? It is generally a well regarded amp. I can look up spec's if you need.

Thanks!

 

[krzywica]

RAvi went passive........ok. I have been oogling active monitors for some time now. The one drawback I've seen in readily available ones is asthetics. Black is the one offereing across the board. Except for the Quad 12L and 11L...and even those aren't offered in wood in N. America. Linn has a whole bunch of Aktiv offerings, but the prices are up there. Dynaudio has some pro monitors, but I have yet to find one in wood. I am pooling funds for the Quads in Cherry, but until then, does anyone have any others I'm missing? I also have checked into DIY but haven't seen any plans.........it's a tough google because throwing active in with the search brings up all the active mentions for subwoofer DIY as they are the main DIY at the moment..............any DIY for Active monitors out there? Kits? Isiberian...........TLS?

Hey Dave,

Check out the Aperion 4B's if you are still considering going passive. I got mine a while back and am loving them. I'm not sure what your music listening habits are but I listen to everything but country and rap. Classical, Rock, and techno mostly. They have 2 beautiful finishes available. $260 a pair.

 

[KEW]

That doesn't make any sense from a physics standpoint. Electricity moves lightspeed practically. Going through a crossover wouldn't make difference in the speed of a speaker. This is crazy talk.

I'm not talking about the velocity of the driver, I'm talking about the acceleration, or how quickly the driver responds to the signal.

 

[MidnightSensi]

It can hurt performance to eliminate a well designed crossover. Going active isn't always the better design. Also just because a speaker is active doesn't mean it employs no crossover. Most I would postulate use a passive one. I'd bet the Focal uses a passive crossover too.

Active monitors still have a crossover, its just in the signal chain before the amplifier rather than after.

I'm not talking about the velocity of the driver, I'm talking about the acceleration, or how quickly the driver responds to the signal.

Active loudspeakers don't really respond quicker than a passive one. The signal still travels just as long and at the same speed.

Active counterparts of the same speaker are more efficient to amplify, because the voltage swing to handle the full range is greater than to handle a portion of it, but with the massive, efficient power amplifiers available today it is difficult to argue that this matters.


I use active monitors for my studio, but for my theater I use passive. The actives are nice for packaging in a near field setup, but for a theater the drag of running power cables and XLRs everywhere becomes more hassle than just a copper pair or Speakons.

 

[davidtwotrees]

Thanks, Aaron, but I'm looking for active monitors........
I am moving to a small room. My current Canton's are probably too big for my current room, and the one I'm moving into is even smaller. The rear ported Canton's would be pushed up tight agains the wall. Smaller monitors will be aways from the wall, and I'll be near enough to consider it nearfield, I think. I like Active. The dynaudios are nice but more than my budget.............thanks all.

 

[krzywica]

Thanks, Aaron, but I'm looking for active monitors........
I am moving to a small room. My current Canton's are probably too big for my current room, and the one I'm moving into is even smaller. The rear ported Canton's would be pushed up tight agains the wall. Smaller monitors will be aways from the wall, and I'll be near enough to consider it nearfield, I think. I like Active. The dynaudios are nice but more than my budget.............thanks all.

No problem.....I wanted to go Active but I couldn't find anything I liked that was also remote controled and had multiple inputs. Good luck with your search...pretty brutal trying to make a decision in that market as it is mostly geared toward the studio audio market. That means all the speakers either look like they belong on the stage of an AC/DC concert or they were designed by Justin Long to match his precious Mac Pro.....

 

[davidtwotrees]

Gosh, I was going to run the active monitors to my Lexicon pre pro, then hook the sources to it, remote controlled. That would also allow for a sub to be added later.

 

[djreef]

Gosh, I was going to run the active monitors to my Lexicon pre pro, then hook the sources to it, remote controlled. That would also allow for a sub to be added later.

I don't understand Dave. Why wouldn't you still do that?

DJ

 

[MidnightSensi]

I don't understand Dave. Why wouldn't you still do that?

DJ

Probably because he doesn't really need a pre-pro if he uses active speakers.

Like my DJ/studio setup is Turntables > Mixer > Crossover > Active Speakers & Sub.

There is no pre-pro, the volume is controlled from the mixer. Some active speakers also have a volume control knob, further reducing the need for a pre-pro.

 

[djreef]

Probably because he doesn't really need a pre-pro if he uses active speakers.

Like my DJ/studio setup is Turntables > Mixer > Crossover > Active Speakers & Sub.

There is no pre-pro, the volume is controlled from the mixer. Some active speakers also have a volume control knob, further reducing the need for a pre-pro.

Right. I missed the mixer part.

DJ

 

[lsiberian]

I'm not talking about the velocity of the driver, I'm talking about the acceleration, or how quickly the driver responds to the signal.

Well I read it as saying the passive crossover signal would be slower than the active one.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I don't understand Dave. Why wouldn't you still do that?

DJ

Kryzwica had commented above me that he couldn't find anything that was remote controlled so he didn't go active............
I will certainly run my active units through the Lexicon-it's the simplest, most intuitively thought out pre I've ever used............I would still need an amp for zone 2 though...........

 

[djreef]

It can hurt performance to eliminate a well designed crossover. Going active isn't always the better design. Also just because a speaker is active doesn't mean it employs no crossover. Most I would postulate use a passive one. I'd bet the Focal uses a passive crossover too.

Agreed, but how many manufacturers (esp of smallish 2 way speakers) actually employ well designed crossovers, to say nothing of the quality of the components comprising those crossovers. Plus you have to factor bang for the buck. Actives give you amplification plus the drivers in a very convenient package that is actually designed to work together. Admit it, you're only bitter because you can't build these yourself.

DJ