For experienced audiophiles only please

[rded]

Thanks I just found someone in my area that will let me audition his ST's next week. I also had someone call and offer me a set of Vandersteen Ce CIG II with the wall rear surrounds for 1400.00 they are 7 years old but in good shape with the upgraded crossovers and mid from the 3A.
But as I said I don't know if I can give them a good home?

If you're concerned with side wall refelections, there are always acoustic treaments to minimize that. I mean as long as your speakers don't dominate the room as far as their size is concerned; you can always build around them.

 

[olddog]

Thanks. 16x25 but placement is set in concrete so to speak.
Down to the nut cuttin as we say out here on the farm
Vandersteen
Rocket 850
Song Tower
Not nessarly in that order

 

[cvcgolf]

Go here and click on dealer locator. You'll be set.

http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/

 

[olddog]

Auditioned the Song Towers and they are awsome! Clean mids that you just can't congest no matter how hard you try. Highs that set just right on the ears. Good sound stage. A little week in the bass so they do need a sub.
Vandersteen very full and huge right to left soundstage with lots of detail but also some of the detailed placement gets lost in that huge sound stage. Foward to rear soundstage a lot smaller.
Rocket 850 gotta wait and see.

 

[olddog]

Well, Susan, (the best side of me and the WAF comptroller in my life), and I got up early and went out to audition the Totem Hawks today. She has never auditioned any speakers, nor given to understanding or belief of what I was talking about when I did. We took along some of her favorite music, (“The Elegance of Pachelbel”), along with my standard reference songs that I have already listed. We went to the B&W dealer first, where understanding what listening to good music on good equipment, was reveled to her and the light of understanding came to her eyes and ears as we reviewed the 685,684,683,704,805,and the 804. I had her rate them all on my sheet. I will come back to this later.
Then we went to listen to some Totems and ended up meeting one of the most hospitable, gracious, knowledgeable persons I have ever had the pleasure of making an acquaintance with. For an old Texas boy that’s saying A LOT!
His name is Don Krasen, owner of Krystal Clear, in Dallas. He has been in business here for 20+ years, so he is the real deal. Well, Don did not have the Totem Hawks in stock but he had the Totem Arro and the Totem Rainmaker. We would have likely auditioned more, but we just could not stop discussing with Don all the intricacies of system applications and the holistic ability of the synergy of the parts which can add up to over 100% of the realization of the end product, if done properly. He never once tried to move us beyond our budget or ruin us for life by letting us listen to something we could not afford. Goggle his name and you will see, he had the power to do so. What an education Susan and I had TOGETHER today!
Now to the Totem Arro. We were totally amazed at the sound that such a small footprint speaker could put out. It uses the Transmission Line enclosure to accomplish this.
Specs are
Break in time: 100 - 150 hours
Placement from rear wall: 6" - 3' / 152 - 914 mm
Placement distance apart: 2' - 12' / 610 - 3 658 mm
Mass Loading: 10 - 20 lb / 4.5 - 9 kg in each cabinet
Frequency Response: 40 Hz - 20 kHz ± 3 dB (with proper room positioning)
Impedance: 4 ohms
Sensitivity: 87 dB
Recommended Power: 20 - 80 W
Crossover frequency: 2.4 kHz, 2nd order Linkwitz-Riley (optimized)
Woofer: 4.5" / 114 mm sandwich cone double magnet”
Tweeter: 1 impregnated textile dome 0.75" / 19 mm (low resonance freq.)
Max SPL's: In average size listening room (12' x 20' / 4 m x 6 m)103 dB peak (12' x 15' / 3 658 x 4 572 mm) from pair at 7' / 2 m
Dimensions (w x h x d): 5.1 x 33.5 x 7.1" / 130 x 850 x 180 mm
We drove both the Arro and Rainmaker speakers in stereo only with an Acram 50w per channel solid-state amp. These little towers would do anyone justice with a small to mid size room without a sub at normal listening levels. When you try to drive them hard, however, we found the highs become too fatiguing. We both felt that they were very forward in sound with a large and definitive sound stage with excellent dynamics. What else can you ask of a speaker of this size? Well, it delivers what you ask in spades and then some for the price point.
I just found out after all these years that Susan, (I gave her the remote and gave her the sweet spot all day), likes to drive it to reference volume! When I asked her why, she told me “It sounds like the performers are right there in front of you!” Guess that says something about my current system, as it has been rare, that she has even listened to any music on it!!
Next the Totem Rainmaker
Specs

Break in time: 70 - 100 hours
Placement from rear wall: 1' - 3' / 305 - 914 mm
Placement distance apart: 4' - 8' / 1 219 - 2 438 mm
Frequency Response: 42 Hz - 20 kHz ± 3 dB
Impedance: 4 ohms minimal
Sensitivity: 87.5 dB/W/m. Maximum sound pressure before dynamic compression
Recommended Power: 30 - 100 W
Crossover frequency: 2.3 kHz, 2nd order
Woofer: 5.5" / 140 mm
Tweeter: 1" / 25 mm aluminum dome, chambered
Dimensions (w x h x d): 6.8 x 14 x 9.1“ / 173 x 355 x 230 mm
Volume: 9 l (internal)
Weight: 5.8 kg (approx. 12 lb)
Recommended stand: TOTEM T4S

We both found this speaker to be a bit colored, but very smooth and responsive, with a pleasing high even at Reference level. More laid back would be the term I believe, without loss of soundstage or spaciousness. We both felt it was a little like a B&W 685 with more extended highs with better decay. Once again, good bass to the point in a small venue no sub would be needed. Just not enough dynamics to suit our preferences. Don apologized for not having the Hawks for us, but explained that the sound would be a happy marriage of the Arro and the Rainmaker. Alas, we still need to find a pair to audition. However, this is a good thing, as we find this to be a fun and enlightening experience to share!
Susan’s take on the day was just like mine. The B&W’s won so far today for what we listened to, not so for what they did great, (because they did nothing great), but for the fact of they did everything good. The others were great in some points but failed in others. Does that make sense? It’s kind of like a win by default.
Now guys, listen up. My Sweetie had a great time today! Why? Because I made sure not to interrupt her and let her ask her own questions. Then, I made sure she always had the sweet spot along with the remote CONTROL. Never was I condescending answering any of her questions in private, and I asked her opinion of everything. Along with that, a fantastic lunch shared, and she got to play with some very expensive equipment, and, Viola!! You have an enthusiastic and understanding partner in your endeavors. Touché!! (The wine at lunch didn’t hurt either!!)

 

[cfrizz]

Well Done OldDog!!!

This is how it should be done. If more guys did it this way a lot more women would probably take an interest in audio.

If you are patient, take the time to explain things to her in plain english, let her bring her own music that she knows well, & let her truly know that she has a say in what she is hearing & wants then let her ears do the rest, you will have an OUTSTANDING outting as you did yesterday.

Congrats.

PS, does anyone in the area have Dynaudios? If so, go have a listen to them.

Keep us posted.

Cathy

 

[fredk]

Nice write up olddog. Its cool to see that you got your SO to buy in on the process. Nothing like giving up some control to gain some.

 

[Swerd]

Thanks for the great speaker descriptions and the story about how you won by involving your wife in the search. You should be commended for patience, because taking your time will ensure you ultimately make the right choice. I thought you had ruled out the B&Ws, but you went back for a 2nd listen. That does take time, but it helps to confirm you initial impressions.

BTW, I'm rooting for the SongTowers. Are you gonna take Susan to hear them? She certainly seems to appreciate good sound. She just might insist you buy them .

I tried the same thing when I was searching about two years ago. I thought I could "manage things" better if I involved my wife. In general she was more agreeable that I had feared. In fact she urged me not to compromise and get exactly what I wanted most. Well that certainly seemed great. After I ordered the SongTowers, she revealed the cards she had been hiding - I want a new kitchen floor! In the long run, the new tile kitchen floor plus the new carpeting in the family room cost a lot more than a pair of SongTowers .

I don't know whether to let things settle as they are, or push for a SongCenter to "even things" a bit .

 

[Swerd]

… It (Totem Arro) uses the Transmission Line enclosure to accomplish this.

Mass Loading: 10 - 20 lb / 4.5 - 9 kg in each cabinet

I just noticed this in your post. The Totem Arro has a standard bass reflex type cabinet. It is not a Mass-loaded Transmission Line cabinet like the SongTower. The Totem web page is unavailable right now, so I cannot double check this.

Perhaps the confusion comes from Totem's use of the term "mass loading". In the Arro, it means, the owner may add 10 to 20 lbs of weight, in the form of sand or lead shot, to each cabinet. This will make the narrow cabinet more stable and may or may not have an audible effect.

In the SongTower, "mass-loaded transmission line" is a specific type of cabient design that, if properly implemented, produces superior sounding bass to either standard bass reflex or sealed cabinets.

 

[olddog]

I just noticed this in your post. The Totem Arro has a standard bass reflex type cabinet. It is not a Mass-loaded Transmission Line cabinet like the SongTower. The Totem web page is unavailable right now, so I cannot double check this.

Perhaps the confusion comes from Totem's use of the term "mass loading". In the Arro, it means, the owner may add 10 to 20 lbs of weight, in the form of sand or lead shot, to each cabinet. This will make the narrow cabinet more stable and may or may not have an audible effect.

In the SongTower, "mass-loaded transmission line" is a specific type of cabient design that, if properly implemented, produces superior sounding bass to either standard bass reflex or sealed cabinets.

I checked on that and believe you correct. Sorry. The Song Towers are still the better bang for the buck speaker at the retail price point. I just wrote about the ones we did together that day to share the experiance with everyone. She now wants to go hear the Totem Hawks so I am on a search to find a pair we can audition along with a few others.

 

[john72953]

I just noticed this in your post. The Totem Arro has a standard bass reflex type cabinet. It is not a Mass-loaded Transmission Line cabinet like the SongTower. The Totem web page is unavailable right now, so I cannot double check this.

Perhaps the confusion comes from Totem's use of the term "mass loading". In the Arro, it means, the owner may add 10 to 20 lbs of weight, in the form of sand or lead shot, to each cabinet. This will make the narrow cabinet more stable and may or may not have an audible effect.

In the SongTower, "mass-loaded transmission line" is a specific type of cabient design that, if properly implemented, produces superior sounding bass to either standard bass reflex or sealed cabinets.

You're absolutely corrrect Swerd! Totem "mass-loading" refers to ballust you can add. I haven't experimented with it on my Sttaf's as I like what I hear, but I may one day just to see what difference it does in fact make (if any).

 

[lsiberian]

Wow another forum person in my area! I will have to check out that place. They appear to carry KEF speakers.

Nice job on getting the lady involved.

 

[john72953]

I checked on that and believe you correct. Sorry. The Song Towers are still the better bang for the buck speaker at the retail price point. I just wrote about the ones we did together that day to share the experiance with everyone. She now wants to go hear the Totem Hawks so I am on a search to find a pair we can audition along with a few others.

Although the Arro's (4-ohm) are an amazing little floorstander, when you move up the line to the Sttaf (8-ohm), the Hawk (6-ohm) and the Forrest (8-ohm), the differences in each are quite apparent. They still maintain their rather diminutive size over all and in comparision to other floorstanders, but don't let that fool you. These puppies can sing!

John

 

[olddog]

I and now Susan are looking foward to the Hunt? It's GREAT, and those of you that haven't should try it. Turns a focused mission into a fun day out and respite from everyday chores. The liseruly lunch at a nice resturant with a good glass of wine I enjoyed as much as She did. You may not get as much accomplished as you woud by-yourself but you sure as heck enjoy it more Next weekend the Totem Hawks!!

 

[olddog]

Well here we go again, been on the road for 4 days and still going.
After driving all the way to, Albuquerque New Mexico, via Taos (SKI Resort) to audition the Totem Hawks with Susan, I think we fell in love, again?!?
Specs.
Frequency Response: <32 Hz - 21 kHz ± 3 dB (with proper room positioning)
Impedance: 6 ohms
Sensitivity: 88 dB
Recommended Power: 30 - 120 W
Crossover frequency: 2.5 kHz, 1st order compensated
Woofer: ø 5.5" / 140 mm Special extreme long throw. Non-resonant cone and dust cap. Dynamic linear suspension for maximum airflow. Patented magnet system.
Tweeter: 1" / 25 mm alloy domeFlexible linear suspension Special low resonance chambered unit
Max SPL's: In average room (12' x 20' / 4 m x 6 m)107 dB peak from pair at 7' / 2 m
Dimensions (w x h x d): 6.8 x 34.3 x 9.6" / 172 x 870 x 244 mm

The Totem Hawks were at an old friends home so there was no hurry here. An Onkyo SR805 was driving them so they had sufficient headroom. We started out nice and soft with Pachebel (I can’t spell his whole foreign name!) Susan’s favorite. We both were awe struck! The sound was natural, uncolored, with a wide and deep soundstage while sitting in the sweet spot. When you move off axis the sound gets quit a bit more laid back but still good with a good bass (I found so far all the Totem speakers have a good bass) It was hard to believe so much beautifull sound was coming out of such a small speaker. Then we put in SRV Blues at Sunset track 10. also just right! Now we put in Brian Setzer and everything was going sooo well until---SUSAN decided to run the volume up to reference level so she could “feel like Brian was in front of her. (I thought we had a thing going on-ahh that’s another song) These speakers love the music with a cavet –they do not play well with reference level people. Bass got all muddied up and everything just went to heck in a hand basket.
If I had a small room in a crowded neighborhood that did not tolerate loud music and I wanted to be able to hear everything at moderate level in a most beautifull way then these would be the ones.
But I don’t, and I’m not, and they don’t give a Damn, so these are not for us.
Sorry
Headed for San Antonio to check out some Theil’s? We will see and I will report.

 

[fredk]

You may not get as much accomplished as you woud by-yourself but you sure as heck enjoy it more

Fun? Fun!! This isn't Sunday in the park. Now go get your reference discs, notepad and that map with all the dealers from 200 miles around marked on it and get busy. We expect a report on at least 10 different speakers in the next post.

 

[john72953]

Well here we go again, been on the road for 4 days and still going.
After driving all the way to, Albuquerque New Mexico, via Taos (SKI Resort) to audition the Totem Hawks with Susan, I think we fell in love, again?!?
Specs.
Frequency Response: <32 Hz - 21 kHz ± 3 dB (with proper room positioning)
Impedance: 6 ohms
Sensitivity: 88 dB
Recommended Power: 30 - 120 W
Crossover frequency: 2.5 kHz, 1st order compensated
Woofer: ø 5.5" / 140 mm Special extreme long throw. Non-resonant cone and dust cap. Dynamic linear suspension for maximum airflow. Patented magnet system.
Tweeter: 1" / 25 mm alloy domeFlexible linear suspension Special low resonance chambered unit
Max SPL's: In average room (12' x 20' / 4 m x 6 m)107 dB peak from pair at 7' / 2 m
Dimensions (w x h x d): 6.8 x 34.3 x 9.6" / 172 x 870 x 244 mm

The Totem Hawks were at an old friends home so there was no hurry here. An Onkyo SR805 was driving them so they had sufficient headroom. We started out nice and soft with Pachebel (I can’t spell his whole foreign name!) Susan’s favorite. We both were awe struck! The sound was natural, uncolored, with a wide and deep soundstage while sitting in the sweet spot. When you move off axis the sound gets quit a bit more laid back but still good with a good bass (I found so far all the Totem speakers have a good bass) It was hard to believe so much beautifull sound was coming out of such a small speaker. Then we put in SRV Blues at Sunset track 10. also just right! Now we put in Brian Setzer and everything was going sooo well until---SUSAN decided to run the volume up to reference level so she could “feel like Brian was in front of her. (I thought we had a thing going on-ahh that’s another song) These speakers love the music with a cavet –they do not play well with reference level people. Bass got all muddied up and everything just went to heck in a hand basket.If I had a small room in a crowded neighborhood that did not tolerate loud music and I wanted to be able to hear everything at moderate level in a most beautifull way then these would be the ones.
But I don’t, and I’m not, and they don’t give a Damn, so these are not for us.
Sorry
Headed for San Antonio to check out some Theil’s? We will see and I will report.

(see bolded)...You are absolutely right! Totems aren't meant to played at extreme volume. They excel at low to mid-levels (which is what you experienced). And at that level they are magic!

John

 

[CraigV]

If I may…I don’t have many posts here, but I do consider myself an audiophile. My lusting after the right sound began back in the ‘70’s, and never stopped. From a Pioneer integrated amp to a Luxman integrated to an Adcom amp & passive pre-amp, various receivers to now having a Rotel pre/pro & B&K amp, I have run the gamut. I too involved my wife early on, to justify the extra debt I was asking a newlywed couple to take in. She was receptive, but only I was able to hear the difference between speaker cables, amplification & so on.

My first pair of real speakers was Dahlquist DQ8. Very nice speaker, but the dry sound of the Adcom amp made the top end edgy. It was then that I decided to try my hand at piecing together drivers to make up a complete speaker. Changes in drivers & crossovers always lent to a different sound, but it was never right. I know I am going against the grain here, but I do believe that while changing speakers does make the most notable difference, associated equipment plays a big role also.

I found an older pair of Paradigm 5semk3 speakers on craigslist for a good price, so I picked them up. Very nice speaker, but as I like to listen to movies & TV sans a center channel speaker (phantom), they didn’t hold the image well off axis. I had tried a pair of the popular Insignia coincidental speakers from BB, and while the overall balance was not there, the imaging was rock solid over a wide area. Bearing this in mind, I began to research Kef speakers. I had always read good things about them, but it seemed the current line of bookshelf speakers got too muddy when asked to go loud. I read about the 1 generation old IQ7, considered a 2 ½ way small tower with a driver going up to 250hz before handing off the rest of the spectrum to the mid/tweeter array. I gave a listen to the only place near me that had them on display, and liked what I heard. I found a new pair at oncall.com for under $600 with free shipping. So, I pulled the trigger.

I had some trepidation about two “metal” drivers conveying the mids & highs, but after a week long break in, those worries were allayed. The imaging, which was a crucial point for me is very solid all the way across. What I wasn’t expecting though was what I encountered after an extended listening – neutrality. Of all the speakers I have listened to, these speakers, along with being bi-wired to my system, added nothing to the sound, nor took anything away. This coupled with a wide, deep soundstage made me realize I had made the right choice. (this while only being 13” from the rear wall) Conventional “tweeter over woofer” designs tend to (as one reviewer put it) suffer from the sound being “sucked out” at a mid frequency, typically at the crossover point. Not so with the Kef’s.

I am very pleased with my purchase, in case you hadn’t noticed. On you budget, the IQ6C would make a great center speaker to go along with the IQ7. But, as others here have correctly said, we can only suggest – ultimately it’s up to you what you like best. Good luck in your quest, I hoped I helped rather than hindered.

 

[3db]

Well here we go again, been on the road for 4 days and still going.
After driving all the way to, Albuquerque New Mexico, via Taos (SKI Resort) to audition the Totem Hawks with Susan, I think we fell in love, again?!?
Specs.
Frequency Response: <32 Hz - 21 kHz ± 3 dB (with proper room positioning)
Impedance: 6 ohms
Sensitivity: 88 dB
Recommended Power: 30 - 120 W
Crossover frequency: 2.5 kHz, 1st order compensated
Woofer: ø 5.5" / 140 mm Special extreme long throw. Non-resonant cone and dust cap. Dynamic linear suspension for maximum airflow. Patented magnet system.
Tweeter: 1" / 25 mm alloy domeFlexible linear suspension Special low resonance chambered unit
Max SPL's: In average room (12' x 20' / 4 m x 6 m)107 dB peak from pair at 7' / 2 m
Dimensions (w x h x d): 6.8 x 34.3 x 9.6" / 172 x 870 x 244 mm

The Totem Hawks were at an old friends home so there was no hurry here. An Onkyo SR805 was driving them so they had sufficient headroom. We started out nice and soft with Pachebel (I can’t spell his whole foreign name!) Susan’s favorite. We both were awe struck! The sound was natural, uncolored, with a wide and deep soundstage while sitting in the sweet spot. When you move off axis the sound gets quit a bit more laid back but still good with a good bass (I found so far all the Totem speakers have a good bass) It was hard to believe so much beautifull sound was coming out of such a small speaker. Then we put in SRV Blues at Sunset track 10. also just right! Now we put in Brian Setzer and everything was going sooo well until---SUSAN decided to run the volume up to reference level so she could “feel like Brian was in front of her. (I thought we had a thing going on-ahh that’s another song) These speakers love the music with a cavet –they do not play well with reference level people. Bass got all muddied up and everything just went to heck in a hand basket.
If I had a small room in a crowded neighborhood that did not tolerate loud music and I wanted to be able to hear everything at moderate level in a most beautifull way then these would be the ones.
But I don’t, and I’m not, and they don’t give a Damn, so these are not for us.
Sorry
Headed for San Antonio to check out some Theil’s? We will see and I will report.

I urge you to audtion the new PSB Synchrony towers. I've heard them first hand and they really are an amazing speaker capable of reference level reproduction without a hint of strain or compression.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I'm a bit of a fanboy, but I have heard three models of the Canton line. They don't get mentioned much here. Canton is the Bowers and Wilkins of Germany. My Canton L800DC's can take the juice and keep on giving to reference levels. They like power, and have gobs of headroom. Here is the current version of my speakers. I have heard the Karat bookshelves, and an Ergo floorstander that were all excellent speakers. I have not heard any of the reference Vento line, but the sales person said they were world class.