Floorstanding Speaker Comparison

[ifsixwasnin9]

Check reviews at audioreview.com. I auditioned PSB Bronze a short while ago. Very, very neutral: didn't do anything for me. I owned B&W DM603 S3 and they were just the opposite: very alive. I settled for some Infinity Kappas to suit my overall taste. I'm in Philly area, as well. Check Craigslist, some good buys out there if you are willing to travel a little bit.

 

[KEW]

When I was auditioning speakers, there were several twists that worked for me.
One of the Paradigm dealers in my area would let me bring my own speakers in. The other would let me buy any of their demo speakers with the understanding that I would return them in two days (I took home both S1s and S2s to compare in my room). After a few listening sessions, I bought the "champion" so I could have it as a reference (at home or to take to a store). It did help that I was looking for bookshelf speakers).
In any case ask the dealers about these options. If you get the Aperions, you'll have a reference point. I think their shipp both ways policy on returns speaks volumes on their confidence in their product!
Enjoy the process and let us know how it goes.

 

[murthyvs]

Aperion 6T's are great and I love them .. I am not sure if others would agree but they'd need good receiver. I hear lot of buzz around EMP E55Ti .. I would say do A/B and then decide .. Aperion offers 30-day in-home trial with paid shipping and there is nothing to lose ..

6T's are big but furniture grade with excellent finish and have good WAF.

Looking to purchase a new pair of floorstanding front speakers. Here in the South Jersey--Phila area it's hard to find a retailer who carries anything but Polk, Klipsh, Def/Tech. Want to stay in the $800 to $1200/pair range. Actually found a audio store that stocked the Paradigm line. Was considering the Monitor 9. Any comments on the Monitor 9 vs 11? Can anybody comment on the Aperion 6T Towers or the EMP E55Ti speakers? Haven't ruled out the Polk RtiA7. Need some input from actual owners. Thanks!

 

[murthyvs]

fyi, Vaans is having Klipsch XF-48 for sale .. $400 each .. they are well regarded as well ..

 

[StereoBob]

Lost In Time!

I only ask this question because the Audioholics Store carries them, but are Infinity Speakers DOA? I read comparisons between numerous brands and models and Infinity is never in the mix. Their speakers aren't exactly inexpensive. The Classia C336 sells at the Audioholics Store for $900 each. That's the same price as the Salk Song Tower QWT! At one time Infinity was King of the Mountain. What happen??? Over-priced? Stale technology? Bad design? Poor sound quality? All of the above????

 

[gene]

The Classia C336 sells at the Audioholics Store for $900 each. That's the same price as the Salk Song Tower QWT! At one time Infinity was King of the Mountain. What happen??? Over-priced? Stale technology? Bad design? Poor sound quality? All of the above????

I believe Tom Andry did a face off of Salk Song Towers against the Infinity Classia's and preferred the Salks by a wide margin.

Yes here is the comparison:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/1500-2000-floor-shootout-2009

Salk's were the speaker of choice in this comparison.

 

[AJinFLA]

I believe Tom Andry did a face off of Salk Song Towers against the Infinity Classia's and preferred the Salks by a wide margin.

Yes here is the comparison:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/1500-2000-floor-shootout-2009

Salk's were the speaker of choice in this comparison.

Hi Gene,

Wide margin?

Shootout Results - Blind
What was most interesting was that the most positive comments for the Infinitys were recorded during the comparison with the Salk SongTower QWTs - one of the highest rated speakers. Consistently, listeners used positive words for the Infinitys but only one of the three actually preferred the Infinitys over the Salks.

It seems that in the incredibly small sample size...3(!!) people, 2 preferred the Salks, 1 preferred the Infinity. I would hardly consider that a wide margin, in a 3 person sample size .

Then there is this

One listener remarked that the seating position on this speaker was fairly important as it changed from one seat to another.

It should have been obvious from the setup that it would be fraught with problems, this being a very good indication of why. Bravo for Tom's sincere effort, but the results may have been vastly different had the setup simply been 2 pairs, each side on a turntable, one at a time rotated into the optimum position...and listened to from a central, single location, either one listener at a time, or all three single file but slightly vertically staggered (like stadium seating).
The Salk may have still enjoyed the 2/3 preference. Or maybe not. Hard to say, based on the article data.

cheers,

AJ

 

[sholling]

The Classia C336 sells at the Audioholics Store for $900 each.

Infinity must be doing a model change on these too because I've seen them for less than $300ea lately.

 

[gene]

Hi Gene,

Wide margin?

Yes since Tom spent a lot of time with both pairs before and after the shootout and excluded himself from the listening tests to not instill bias. Short blind listening tests often don't reveal a clear winner. Long duration listening tests over a course of several days/weeks are far more revealing.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hi Gene,

The Salk may have still enjoyed the 2/3 preference. Or maybe not. Hard to say, based on the article data.

cheers,

AJ

Welcome, back AJ!

So in this study, n = 3 people.

It would have been more definitive if n = 25 in the blinded test.

 

[gene]

So in this study, n = 3 people.

It would have been more definitive if n = 25 in the blinded test.

Yea good luck in finding a review publication that can dedicate that many resources into a speaker comparison. Personally I place a lot of weight on a seasoned listener that spent days/weeks with the products but in the end its always best to have the speakers in your own listening space on your own ears to make the ultimate determination.

 

[KEW]

Hi Gene,

Wide margin?



It seems that in the incredibly small sample size...3(!!) people, 2 preferred the Salks, 1 preferred the Infinity. I would hardly consider that a wide margin, in a 3 person sample size .

Then there is this


It should have been obvious from the setup that it would be fraught with problems, this being a very good indication of why. Bravo for Tom's sincere effort, but the results may have been vastly different had the setup simply been 2 pairs, each side on a turntable, one at a time rotated into the optimum position...and listened to from a central, single location, either one listener at a time, or all three single file but slightly vertically staggered (like stadium seating).
The Salk may have still enjoyed the 2/3 preference. Or maybe not. Hard to say, based on the article data.

cheers,

AJ

While it is interesting that "the most positive comments for the Infinitys were recorded during the comparison with the Salk SongTower QWTs - one of the highest rated speakers.", I would consider the overall rating a much more significant result of the blind testing:

Speaker/I Like/I Would Buy
Dali/3/3
Infinity/1/2
Krix/3/3
Salk/6/6

To me, the fact that the Infinity had the worst scores and the Salk had the best is much more relevant than the fact that the Infinities got more positive comments while being compared with the Salks than they did while being compared to the Dali or the Krix.
I don't read the above statement as saying the Infinities got more positive comments than the Salks.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yea good luck in finding a review publication that can dedicate that many resources into a speaker comparison. Personally I place a lot of weight on a seasoned listener that spent days/weeks with the products but in the end its always best to have the speakers in your own listening space on your own ears to make the ultimate determination.

True. Usually it's n = 0.

Most of the time, it's not even blinded in any way.

2nd, the reviewer is the ONLY subject.

The best way is to try it out in your own house for 30 days or more, but you don't see that happening often.

 

[AJinFLA]

Yes since Tom spent a lot of time with both pairs before and after the shootout and excluded himself from the listening tests to not instill bias.

Then why bother with a 3 man blind test (albeit a rather flawed one)? If Tom's non-blind/uncontrolled listening is what counts? Again, it was 2/3 in the blind test portion of the article you chose to link when referencing the Infinity vs Salk. It would only take one person to swing it the opposite way, were the test performed differently. Hardly a wide margin.

Short blind listening tests often don't reveal a clear winner.

Then why go through the trouble of performing them, in multiple articles?
I mistakenly thought you were impressed with Axioms blind testing, in you short exposure to them.
Btw, blind tests don't have to be short. That is purely by choice.

Long duration listening tests over a course of several days/weeks are far more revealing.

Of what? Acoustic differences, or memory/perception differences?
Will this be the future format of Audioholics speaker comparisons?

cheers,

AJ

 

[AJinFLA]

So in this study, n = 3 people.

It would have been more definitive if n = 25 in the blinded test.

Larger sample size certainly helps, but the far greater issue is the setup.
The speakers stacked side by side in front of a horizon row of listeners at various angles, is hardly a valid way to compare stereo loudspeakers.
It should be clear that drawing conclusions from this arrangement is dubious at best. Again, I applaud the sincere effort. It's the method (and conclusions) that are at issue.

cheers,

AJ

 

[gene]

AJ;

The blind tests are done as a fun experiment. Nothing is perfect, especially when trying to gauge user preferences. I like to incorporate them in my listening tests but I also like long duration testing too. You don't need blind to discern obvious differences in loudspeakers but you do need multiple listening sessions to determine if a speaker sounds right or if its fatiguing.

I've found that bright bass heavy speakers tend to always win a short term blind test, but trying living with that speaker for weeks/months and you're initial perception will likely change.

Until one of our forum critics design a better testing methodology and proves it through an actual experiment, I think we are doing pretty well with how we do things now.

As for sample size, larger doesn't just help, its completely imperative to reduce error and make the end results more meaningful. Again its often impractical as few if any have the means to do them in an ideal setup over a course of several days/weeks with a multitude of listeners. I have NO desire to volunteer for such an undertaking.

 

[KEW]

As for sample size, larger doesn't just help, its completely imperative to reduce error and make the end results more meaningful. Again its often impractical as few if any have the means to do them in an ideal setup over a course of several days/weeks with a multitude of listeners. I have NO desire to volunteer for such an undertaking.

The testing would go much more efficiently if you used blind people...

 

[3db]

The testing would go much more efficiently if you used blind people...

Don't laugh KEW but as impractical as that is, its a valid point. Blind people's hearing are more accute than those who aren't blind and would be able to dicern much more readily nunaces that a person of sight may miss initially.

 

[gene]

FYI;

Tom's dedicated reviews of both speakers:

Salk Song Towers

Infinity Classica C336

I'd love to tell everyone to buy the Infinity's since they are sold on the AH E-store but the Salks appear to be a much better speaker.

 

[KEW]

Don't laugh KEW but as impractical as that is, its a valid point. Blind people's hearing are more accute than those who aren't blind and would be able to dicern much more readily nunaces that a person of sight may miss initially.

I'm not laughing, that is a grin.

It was very much a point of pride that I had the same integrated amp as Stevie Wonder used in his studio back in the early 80's!