Floor tower speakers on a shelf???

[Adam D'Agosto]

Hi all,

I posted a thread yesterday, "3.1 System vs. 5.1 Passive Soundbar". All things considered, it looks like the answer so far is to go with a 3.1 setup.

Ok, that said, I liked the soundbar router because I have the perfect place for a long "center speaker". I do have room for bookshelf speakers, but the proper size (5.25" drivers) will be rather obtrusive in the entertainment center. Its doable, but less than ideal. On the other hand, to the left and right of the entertainment center, I have two shelves that can support a tower-like speaker. The bottom of that speaker would sit at 29" off the floor and the top should be about 75" high.

Can you place floor speakers on a shelf or is that just dumb as the speaker name insinuates, "floor"....

If that is dumb, then what kind of vertical speaker would I look for that can be mounted to the side of a entertainment center?

Thx!!

 

[Pogre]

You wouldn't want a tower speaker that high off the ground. I'd suggest finding a good pair of bookshelf speakers for those shelves. What kind of budget are we talking about here? Are you in the US?

 

[Adam D'Agosto]

Ok. That's what I was thinking but had to ask.

For a 3.1 system including a receiver, I'd like to stay under $1300. I'd prefer to buy a used, but I'm open to either a used receiver and new speakers or the other way around. I kinda think logic may say to get used speakers and a new receiver to capture the latest technology, but at the same time I can see a good argument to buy a used receiver and just get a new"used" one every few years.

My me, the estitics of this system is important. I love the clean look of the soundbar, but if you are familiar with the Definitive Technology Mythos 2 and 3, that's a really good look that gets the speakers to the sides of the entertainment center. They are not too wide and not too skinny.

 

[yepimonfire]

I wouldn't put any speakers inside of an enclosed space like an entertainment center. Why not just place floor standing speakers on the floor outside of the entertainment center? Since you haven't posted your room dimensions or a setup diagram, its hard to make suggestions, but ideally you want your left and right speakers at a 22°-30° angle from the center seat. This is even more important since you don't have surrounds to broaden the sound stage. If you sit 10' away for example, you'd want your left and right speakers to be 8-10' apart. I seriously doubt your entertainment center is that wide. Try to stick to those rules as closely as your room allows.

Its also extremely critical that the tweeters are at ear level.

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[everettT]

Can you put a picture on like photobucket, that would be useful to see. If you have enough posts you can upload directly from your computer.

 

[Adam D'Agosto]

Ok great idea. I will map it out for you. Let me work on this.

 

[TheWarrior]

If the tower speaker is of sturdy build quality you can hang them upside down with tweeter at ear height. Definitely makes for a cleaner look!

 

[Adam D'Agosto]

Ok. Here is what my entertainment center looks like face on. The center seat is 12 feet from the TV (55" Panasonic plasma).

The bookshelves where speakers could go would be directly below the TV in the 6" tall section. That's about 51" wide or so. The mains could go inside the bookshelf just above where I have the Receiver shown (even though I don't have one there). That's where I would want to place it. Reason: the other good place for it would be the 6" tall section with the TV box. The problem is, it is ONLY 6" tall and only slimline receivers will work. BUT, the problem with this is, the speakers would be higher than optimal and the very bottom of the bookshelf speakers would be about 44" off the ground (my ear height). In this case, the tweets would be kinda high. Soooo, another place for the mains would be hanging on the OUTSIDE of the entertainment center. You see where I have that little dot with the 44" dimension? That's about there I'd place a bookshelf speaker. In this case, I could get the tweeter right on target. The 30 degree left and right points are VERY close to where that dot is drawn.

The lower right section where you see "sub", that's where my current sub is for my Bose 2.1 CineMate II. That should work.

The room is 26 feet wide (right to left as you look at the image) and 22 feet deep (direction of the speakers). BUT, that 22 foot dimension opens up the the kitchen and dining area and that adds another almost 30 feet. The ceiling is almost 18" high.

With all this now, I guess the question for you is, where would you put the mains? Is having a extra long center channel advantageous here or is something simple like a DT ProCenter1000 all that's needed?

 

[shadyJ]

Can you just chuck the entertainment center? It really is quite awful and puts your system at a big disadvantage. The diffraction effects of being placed near all that shelving make for poor acoustics. It badly restricts placement as well, and the speakers are likely going to be too close to each other. Wiring everything up is going to be a major pain. There is also the problem of properly ventilating the amplifier and other electronic components. It destroys the audio just to have shelving for knick-knacks. I say tear it down, pile it up in the backyard and destroy it with a flame thrower. Replace it with a light and loose entertainment shelf like this. You will have room for a real audio system, and if the wife complains, turn the music up louder so she can't be heard over it.

 

[Adam D'Agosto]

ShadyJ, I completly agree. I hate the stupid asinine cubby design. In fact, when we got the new TV, we actually gutted 2/3rds of it and replaced it with custom adjustable shelves. It looks a million times better.

That said, you are still right about everything you said, except for the part about the wife. She saw me pulling dimensions and said, "Your not planning on destroying the entertainment center..."

You did mention you thought the mains would be too close to each other. I don't know if I agree. I see that if I mount speakers to the OUTSIDE of the entertainment center (along the 77" dimension line), I can get the mains out to 30 degrees separation. They would be 9 feet apart and 12 feet away.

I'm thinking a lot about the Definitive Technology ProMonitor1000 and ProCenter1000 along with a ProSub1000.

Thoughts?

 

[shadyJ]

If I were you, I would be looking at narrow dispersion speaker designs, not wide dispersion designs. They will still be adversely impacted by being placed in a enclosed cabinet space, but not as much. Look at designs with horns or serious waveguides. I would be looking at Klipsch speakers, Hsu speakers, JBL LSR speakers (if your AVR has pre-outs). Place the speakers so their edge is flush with the edge of the shelving. You do not want the speakers recessed back into the cubby.

If you can get the main speakers apart from each other where they form an equilateral triangle with your listening position, that is the ideal.

As for subwoofers, I would not want the ProSub1000. If you need a small sub, look at the RSL Speedwoofer 10S or SVS SB2000.

 

[MrBoat]

Pogre should post a picture of his clean setup and I am thinking one could do wonders to the WAF with all that shiny and tidy black stuff with the biggest seller showing how much easier the dusting duty becomes.

 

[Pogre]

Pogre should post a picture of his clean setup and I am thinking one could do wonders to the WAF with all that shiny and tidy black stuff with the biggest seller showing how much easier the dusting duty becomes.

I use a swiffer. Takes me about ten minutes to dust it all.

 

[yepimonfire]

Ok. Here is what my entertainment center looks like face on. The center seat is 12 feet from the TV (55" Panasonic plasma).

View attachment 21448
The bookshelves where speakers could go would be directly below the TV in the 6" tall section. That's about 51" wide or so. The mains could go inside the bookshelf just above where I have the Receiver shown (even though I don't have one there). That's where I would want to place it. Reason: the other good place for it would be the 6" tall section with the TV box. The problem is, it is ONLY 6" tall and only slimline receivers will work. BUT, the problem with this is, the speakers would be higher than optimal and the very bottom of the bookshelf speakers would be about 44" off the ground (my ear height). In this case, the tweets would be kinda high. Soooo, another place for the mains would be hanging on the OUTSIDE of the entertainment center. You see where I have that little dot with the 44" dimension? That's about there I'd place a bookshelf speaker. In this case, I could get the tweeter right on target. The 30 degree left and right points are VERY close to where that dot is drawn.

The lower right section where you see "sub", that's where my current sub is for my Bose 2.1 CineMate II. That should work.

The room is 26 feet wide (right to left as you look at the image) and 22 feet deep (direction of the speakers). BUT, that 22 foot dimension opens up the the kitchen and dining area and that adds another almost 30 feet. The ceiling is almost 18" high.

With all this now, I guess the question for you is, where would you put the mains? Is having a extra long center channel advantageous here or is something simple like a DT ProCenter1000 all that's needed?

I'd place them 10-12' apart. Any narrower and you have severely compromised imaging.

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[yepimonfire]

If I were you, I would be looking at narrow dispersion speaker designs, not wide dispersion designs. They will still be adversely impacted by being placed in a enclosed cabinet space, but not as much. Look at designs with horns or serious waveguides. I would be looking at Klipsch speakers, Hsu speakers, JBL LSR speakers (if your AVR has pre-outs). Place the speakers so their edge is flush with the edge of the shelving. You do not want the speakers recessed back into the cubby.

If you can get the main speakers apart from each other where they form an equilateral triangle with your listening position, that is the ideal.

As for subwoofers, I would not want the ProSub1000. If you need a small sub, look at the RSL Speedwoofer 10S or SVS SB2000.

Klipsch speakers are controlled dispersion, not narrow dispersion. The pattern of the latest series is 90°x90°, placed flush with the shelf, it's likely you'd avoid HF reflections, but it will still screw up the mids and bass.

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[Adam D'Agosto]

So in a slightly new development with the center speaker, I got to thinking. If the speaker has a tapered back like some of the Polk Audio speakers do, I can actually have the center speaker stick out a bit. About 1/3 of the speaker would be inside the cubby and the rest would sit forward of the TV's plane.

Other than Polk, I'm not so familiar with a lot of brands.

 

[shadyJ]

So in a slightly new development with the center speaker, I got to thinking. If the speaker has a tapered back like some of the Polk Audio speakers do, I can actually have the center speaker stick out a bit. About 1/3 of the speaker would be inside the cubby and the rest would sit forward of the TV's plane.

Other than Polk, I'm not so familiar with a lot of brands.

It's better than nothing, but understand you will still get diffraction effects from having the speaker placed in a that kind of situation. Whatever speaker you get, do not spend a lot on it, because its sound is going to be heavily compromised. I don't want to sound too harsh, but I wouldn't worry about the sound very much until you get rid of the entertainment center. It will kneecap any good speaker you place in there.

 

[yepimonfire]

So in a slightly new development with the center speaker, I got to thinking. If the speaker has a tapered back like some of the Polk Audio speakers do, I can actually have the center speaker stick out a bit. About 1/3 of the speaker would be inside the cubby and the rest would sit forward of the TV's plane.

Other than Polk, I'm not so familiar with a lot of brands.

Why not just put it on a stand outside the entertainment center? You'll have to decide what's more important, aesthetics, or sound quality, you can't always have both.

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[Adam D'Agosto]

...but understand you will still get diffraction effects from having the speaker placed in a that kind of situation.

And the reason for that is because the speaker is or will be placed inside a bookcase? That is, anytime you cover three sides plus the top of a speaker you will cause these problems?

Why not just put it on a stand outside the entertainment center?

I could do this for the mains. That's not a bad idea.

 

[shadyJ]

And the reason for that is because the speaker is or will be placed inside a bookcase? That is, anytime you cover three sides plus the top of a speaker you will cause these problems?

Basically, yes. Most speakers sound best with a good standoff distance away from nearby surfaces. Placing them inside of a cubby is nearly the opposite of that. Here is a picture that would serve as good general placement advice- see how far the speakers are from the walls, and their angle with respect to the listener: