First SACD Experience..

[tomd51]

Well... I had some friends over to watch the SB Sunday and knowing they're music fans (I used to play in a band w/them), I thought I'd give them a little treat and go buy a few SACDs to give them a little demo of the newly revised system.

So I shoot over to BestBuy, dig through the DVD-A and SACD rubble they have and found a couple worthy (or so I thought) choices. They were Aerosmith's 'O Yeah! Ultimate Aerosmith Hits' and the Allman Brothers 'Live At The Fillmore East' SACDs. I think I'm going to be happy w/the Allman's SACD, but haven't had a chance to listen to it as of yet.

What burns me is that when I loaded up the Aerosmith SACD and played it, I noticed I could only use 2 channel, couldn't find a multi-channel option. Having just got a new DVD player, I figured it was something I didn't have configured correctly or something I had to do to enable this. Unfortunately wasn't the case, as this particular SACD has only stereo tracks, no multichannel!!! #!@$#@!!

Silly me, I was under the impression that if I pony up $23.00 for an SACD, it might actually have multichannel tracks on it. I understand the point of a better bitrate even using stereo tracks, but that wasn't my intention and I wonder how many other people have been porked by this kind of thing.

I've always thought DVD-As were a better idea than SACDs, and this just confirms my initial thoughts. I'm curious to know, have any others encountered similar problems with SACDs?

 

[moverton]

live and learn. I now check carefully before buying sacd or dvd-a titles. I also spend a little time looking at reviews because I have found the quality varies widely; some are no better than the cd version.
That said, I have a few stereo SACD's that were well worth the price. Getz/Gilberto (http://www.vervemusicgroup.com/product.aspx?ob=prd&src=srs&pid=10366) is probably the best SACD I have.

 

[Resident Loser]

Imnsho....

...media changes are the way record companies can cash in on their already bought-and-paid-for catalogue...they announce "digitally remastered" as though it's going into the vault and doing some audio-based, technical wizardry...it's simply analog to digital conversion, a required step, not some miracle cure.

...but then again, what were you expecting...the Fillmore's ambience or Duane coming out of your left-rear speaker...

jimHJJ(...if the latter, you would have loved quad...)

 

[tomd51]

Absolutely live and learn, seems quite often I attend the school of hard knocks, though this one wasn't too tough...

The "digitally remastered" crap is just that, crap. I've never once repurchased a CD with that advertising, similar to what you mentioned, it's just another way to pilfer money on what they've already sold with nothing new, besides that little catch phrase...

What I was expecting a multichannel soundtrack, whereas certain vocal and instrument tracks that were recorded separately at the time of the original recording weren't squashed into two channels. I don't necessarily need to hear the wheeze or death rattle from Greg as the Allmans hammer out 'Whipping Post', but it's nice to hear a full sound field mix when this is what I was expecting. BTW, what little I listened to the Fillmore recording was quite good and was in multichannel, only the Aerosmith SACD was in stereo. Granted, it does sound better than some of the original CD tracks from 'Get Your Wings' or 'Toys In The Attic', but its just a total buzz kill expecting one thing and getting another.

Oh well, just another ringing endorsement for the 'caveat emptor' phrase ... -TD

 

[outsider]

When I first started looking into SACD a few years ago one of the first things I found out was the fact that it was available in both 2-channel and multi-channel, but that they were primarily multi-channel.
In the future everyone should make sure you know all the facts before they go out and buy something.

Personally, I've come to hate 5.1 music.
When I first heard some things in 5.1 I was impressed, but once the "wow" factor wore off (about 20 minutes) I was really annoyed by having sounds coming from everywhere.
As a result, I am much happier with a hi-res 2 channel mix, so that is what I look for.
I must say though, I think the best solution is to make everything in both 2-channel and 5.1 since we all like different things.

 

[j_garcia]

It depends on the mix. 5.1 music sounds AMAZING when it's done RIGHT. When it's done WRONG, it's a DISASTER. Take Dark Side of the Moon - that is one hell of a well done m/c SACD. The Police 25th Anniversary Greatest Hits - definitely one to skip, the surround on most of the tracks is a travesty so I only listen in 2ch. I have to say that many of my SACDs, I've found that I do prefer the 2ch, so it's good to check around and see what others say about a particular disc.

 

[tbewick]

The "digitally remastered" crap is just that, crap. I've never once repurchased a CD with that advertising, similar to what you mentioned, it's just another way to pilfer money on what they've already sold with nothing new, besides that little catch phrase...

I think if you're after a good sounding CD/SACD/DVD-Audio, then you have no choice but to go on the reviews or listen to them in the shop. I'm sure that some digitally remastered recordings sound better than the original analogue mixes. Maybe it's just that the higher qualty digital remastering sometimes reveals flaws in the original recordings that were previously obscured.

 

[tomd51]

I made a bad assumption that all SACDs were multichannel as opposed to stereo, so from that aspect, I'll wear the donkey ears on that one. Though in my defense, when looking at the disc cover labeling, it's similar to most DVD-As that have a few soundtrack labels on them (e.g. DVD-Audio, Advance Resolution, etc.), I assumed (yes, I know.. ) one of these were for the 5.1 mix.

I've heard a couple DVD-As that weren't mixed very well also, then again I've heard (and own) a few that do sound very good. Grover Washington Jr.'s Limelight, Steely Dan's Gaucho, Two Against Nature, Everything Must Go, Donald Fagen's Nightfly and Blue Man Group's Audio all have very solid mixes IMHO.

Part of my reasoning for picking up a new DVD player was due to the fact I was tired of being limited to only the DVD-A titles and there seemed to be a good amount of SACDs that I'd like. Too bad DSOTM wasn't at Best Buy, that's one I was looking forward to picking up and why I ended up with the Aerosmith SACD. I can't whine too much, it does sound very good, it's just not what I expected. On the flip side, The Allmans Live at the Fillmore is a very good disc, would most definitely recommend this... -TD

 

[tomd51]

I think if you're after a good sounding CD/SACD/DVD-Audio, then you have no choice but to go on the reviews or listen to them in the shop. I'm sure that some digitally remastered recordings sound better than the original analogue mixes. Maybe it's just that the higher qualty digital remastering sometimes reveals flaws in the original recordings that were previously obscured.

That's actually a very good idea. The only problem I see with that is unless you're demoing it at a HT store or decent electronics retailer, it may be tough to find out how the surround mix is if your only option is headphones, which most of the local DVD-A/SACD retailers have.

A good friend of mine loaded up on quite a few of the 'digitally remastered' discs when he joined one of the CD clubs. I've heard several of these on a decent system and couldn't tell any significant difference between them and the original releases. It's possible there are some, but I couldn't notice it and consider my ear (as well as others have) fairly critical.

 

[Mort Corey]

I agree with John...pick up DSOTM even if you have to order it online...it will make you smile

Mort

 

[j_garcia]

I know I must seem like a fanatic and all, but I have to throw in the Porcupine Tree DVD-As: In Abesntia, and Deadwing. Even if you don't have a DVD-A capable player, both have great DTS mixes. These are approaching the level of DSotM SACD for mix quality and the music isn't bad either. If you like DSotM, you will probably like these, though it is a bit heavier at times. I wouldn't even mention them if I didn't think they were worth listening to.

For something a little more 80's-ish, Roxy Music's Avalon also has a great m/c mix, with some interesting "around the room" activity on a few tracks. More for a Roxy Music / Brian Ferry fan (I like them, not a huge fan), not someone who hasn't listened to them before.

Most discs will indicate on the back cover somewhere if there is a m/c or stereo only mix. ALL of the first generation SACDs where stereo only, and most were not hybrid (meaning they cannot be played on anything but an SACD capable player).

 

[JVC]

In my opinion, sacd was invented for DSOTM! (just kidding.........kinda)
That one sacd may change your mind about sacd in general. It is outstanding!
It's like hearing it for the first time.......again! Do yourself a favor, and listen to it. I don't understand why sacd and dvd-a didn't make a better go of it. Too, too bad.

 

[supervij]

I remember feeling a little burned with my first stereo SACD purchase. It was Peter Gabriel's 2 and Birdy (both used, and only $10 CND each, so what the heck). I realized that they didn't sound all that different from the original CDs I had purchased way back when. After digging a little, some people suggested that my gear is to blame. I have a budget player, and that's the reason it didn't sound too much better than the originals. Also, they're not hybrids, so they're useless outside of my universal player.

I also felt a little cheated on my latest multichannel SACD, Beethoven's 9th Symphony. After getting used to the wonders of multichannel music, I was a bit dismayed that this 5.1 classical disc featured music primarily on the front left and right, and next to nothing on the other three speakers. I suppose I'm now used to "being in the audience" for the disc (rather than in the centre of the orchestra itself), but if I'm in the audience, why is there barely any audio coming out of the centre channel?

And then there are the discs that I simply cannot get enough of. Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, Peter Gabriel's Up, Blue Man Group's The Complex and Tom Cochrane's Trapeze -- these are stellar multichannel mixes. I'm still at the point where I loooooove multichannel music, and these discs are the cream of the crop in my collection.

The only stereo SACD that's knocked my socks off (so far) is The Rolling Stones' Hot Rocks. Hot damn, that's one fine (sounding) album!

cheers,
supervij

 

[tomd51]

So you're sayin' buy DSOTM?

Besides that, I'm also considering Porcupine Tree-In Absentia and Jeff Beck-Blow By Blow. In addition to J's suggestions of them, I've seen lots of recommendations for both Porcupine Tree DVD-As. Anyone heard Beck's SACD? I love the CD, just curious if anyone's ever heard it and has feedback on it.

Any other SACD/DVD-A favorites? Thanks for the input... -TD

 

[Hawkeye]

So you're sayin' buy DSOTM?

Besides that, I'm also considering Porcupine Tree-In Absentia and Jeff Beck-Blow By Blow. In addition to J's suggestions of them, I've seen lots of recommendations for both Porcupine Tree DVD-As. Anyone heard Beck's SACD? I love the CD, just curious if anyone's ever heard it and has feedback on it.

Any other SACD/DVD-A favorites? Thanks for the input... -TD

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/128686.html
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/68570.html

 

[shokhead]

The more i listen to SACD and DTS,the worst my cd's and my car audio sounds.

 

[muncybob]

OK...I'll be the 1,000,000th person to say get DSOTM multi channel....I got Elton John Madman Across The Water and like that too. But, there is no doubt about it that many well produced/mixed 2 channel cd's(I still call them albums!) are better than the "remixed" efforts out there.

 

[shokhead]

OK...I'll be the 1,000,000th person to say get DSOTM multi channel....I got Elton John Madman Across The Water and like that too. But, there is no doubt about it that many well produced/mixed 2 channel cd's(I still call them albums!) are better than the "remixed" efforts out there.

Doesnt do any good to get DSOTM or any other multi-channel if you dont like the group. I dont like PF so i wont bother with DSOTM.

 

[j_garcia]

The BEST 2ch SACD I've heard is Patricia Barber Cafe Blue (Mobile Fidelity). That one disc is what really got me hooked on SACD, and it's only 2ch! Then I heard DSOTM...

Doesnt do any good to get DSOTM or any other multi-channel if you dont like the group. I dont like PF so i wont bother with DSOTM.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned that Roxy Music is well done, but if you aren't at least familiar with the type of music they play, it shouldn't be a blind buy.

 

[tomd51]

Thanks for the links, Hawkeye. One of the links on those referenced me to 'sa-cd.net', which looks to have all the info I need...

My introduction to Pink Floyd was one of my first albums, 'Wish You Were Here'. Now that I'd love to hear in a multichannel mix!!

I'm not as big a fan now as I was when I was younger, but I still enjoy their music and if I'm able to find the time to sit and listen to them critically (which is why I buy the multichannel discs in the first place), I don't think it'll be hard to enjoy them once again...