first project

[dottorfoggy]

hi guys! i'm here to ask tips on what i'm going to build this winter. this is the first time for me on HT and i need to understand how works speakers size, cross over and sound balance.
first af all, i will use this use watch 90% movies, bluray and hd internet tv. the rest are music and youtube videos.
i have a 1000/1500$ budget
what i need:
- 5 speakers
- amplifier
- sub + amplifier

my idea i have made looking on other project, is to have a tweeter + 2 midwoofer on satellite and tweeter + mid on center. is a good balance for movies? or better more midwoofers on the front satellites? on the sub i don't know right now

i want to build it from scratch, from loud speakers to crossovers

dayton is a good brand to start?
which brands are quite good as amplifiers?

 

[roadrune]

With your budget i would say you need to get a used amp (but not to old) and something like the Overnight sensation speaker range plus one or two decent subs.

What size is your room, and how big speakers can you have?

 

[dottorfoggy]

room is 12 x 14, tv is on 12 side

there is some logistics problems, here you can see, at the right side, i dont have so much place, but, making the loudspeaker as a triangle, can work i think, on the back there is only 3"

that's why i want also, to build my own

i dont know why, but i really like the Dayton Audio ND140-8 5-1/4", a couple of that on the three front channel was my first idea, i like how they looks!

 

[TheWarrior]

hi guys! i'm here to ask tips on what i'm going to build this winter. this is the first time for me on HT and i need to understand how works speakers size, cross over and sound balance.
first af all, i will use this use watch 90% movies, bluray and hd internet tv. the rest are music and youtube videos.
i have a 1000/1500$ budget
what i need:
- 5 speakers
- amplifier
- sub + amplifier

my idea i have made looking on other project, is to have a tweeter + 2 midwoofer on satellite and tweeter + mid on center. is a good balance for movies? or better more midwoofers on the front satellites? on the sub i don't know right now

i want to build it from scratch, from loud speakers to crossovers

dayton is a good brand to start?
which brands are quite good as amplifiers?

Hi!

I'd check out kit speakers only, unless you have a complete understanding of loudspeaker design. For a fee, Madisound will also design a crossover for you. You would need to specify which drivers to use based from their inventory, as well as the baffle size. But that also requires knowledge to pair drivers correctly.

Simply, unless you already have that knowledge, the success of this project will be dependent on your willingness to learn a very complex subject. Or, just buy kits!

 

[dottorfoggy]

i want to learn, no panic, i have time and patience as you can see in the pictures, i have to build a special cabinet, not just a square one, this need to be calculated.

madisound is a really good website! thanks

 

[TheWarrior]

i want to learn, no panic, i have time and patience as you can see in the pictures, i have to build a special cabinet, not just a square one, this need to be calculated.

madisound is a really good website! thanks

Then I'd give the 'Loudspeaker Design Cookbook' a try. That's a pretty good immersion in the numerous concepts that have to be understood to design a loudspeaker correctly. In 2017, we have a very good understanding of how to design speakers, and the application should really be the only differentiating factor. But, this is a free market so 'unique' designs that can be well marketed regardless of actual performance keep popping up.

Your proposal for an MTM is one such concept. When horizontally configured as a center channel with a 2-way crossover, the close proximity of the mid range drivers and the frequencies they play have wavelengths that will match the distance between the two mids, canceling out those frequencies. A 2-way MTM center will have much narrower dispersion than a 2.5 or 3 way design.

When you align them vertically, you will have the same cancellations on the vertical plane. The argument for using a vertical MTM would be that you are seated, so it shouldn't matter. Double blind listening tests from Harman suggest that this still affects the listener's sense of envelopment - we are adding height speakers for these new formats, aren't we? That would suggest the vertical plane matters too!

 

[dottorfoggy]

really thanks for the book!
I'm also watching lot of video from audioholics YouTube channel and reading also articles!
looks that the most important channel is the center, followed by from surround, and last the back surround.
lot of info already from both, I feel to be in the perfect place here!

 

[dottorfoggy]

maybe a good start, is to give a try on the c-note kit, basic and clean to understand this world, the only one "problem" is the center channel, there is no kit made with the same speakers, and can be interesting the build of this, starting from the cross over to the cabinet.

a good start also to understand the low frequencies, is to choose the entry level Dayton Audio SUB-800 8" or 10/12", depends how big i need it...but how i know it? better two small or one bigger?

 

[123Toid]

I would also start by just building a good set that has already been desiged. You can find some good kits here: DIYsoundgroup. I would always tell people to start with a proven design. Since you do want to learn, you can check out this series I put together to learn how to design your own crossover. This will be very important if you want to take the plunge to your own design with all free programs.

Having said this, I would still start with an already designed speaker and then work your way up to something like this.

P.S. It is a long series, but you really need to watch all of them to get an understanding of what is being done and why. There are still more videos to come.

 

[dottorfoggy]

yes, the idea was to find a web site that can can ship all the kits, like overnight sensations, aviatrix, tritrix or the c-note, but for this one, i can't find the center channel...

here there is this SONY STR DB930 on sale, a 2000 model that on the paper, look great for a first budget amplifier, is it?

 

[123Toid]

That is a very old receiver. You will want one with at least HDMI in for audio, as it carries all the new audio standards. If you are looking for a deal on an amplifier you should check out accys for less. They have some great deals and are a reputable company.

as far as center channel speaker goes, I understand why you think you need a speaker that looks differently. However, ideally, you will have all 3 front speakers the exact same height and orientation. That is why in a lot of DIY speakers, you will not see a center channel that is designed differently. I would still take a look at Diy Sound Group or Parts Express for speakers.

Having said this, if you really want a different shaped center channel check out the Fusion line at Diy Sound Group.

I apologize if I misunderstood what you were looking for, but your first post clearly stated,"i want to build it from scratch, from loud speakers to crossovers." It is the only reason I thought you may want to learn how to design a crossover.

 

[dottorfoggy]

i'm still considering both, build from scratch and buy ready to build kit. but looks that the second idea fit better for me

i can have that sony for 50$, is really cheap for me now. i have to pay 24% on every things it comes outside my island. for the beginning, it works if the amplifier take just the optical audio from pc and bluray after i can consider a better one

don't worry, sometimes i'm not even sure on what i'm going to do

part express have:
- c-note https://www.parts-express.com/c-note-mt-bookshelf-speaker-kit-pair-with-knock-down-cabinets--300-7140
but only MT bookshelf, and no mtm center for thi series

- avitrix (my favorite) https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=avitrix&sitesearch=true
can i use the mtm vertical on the surround front in vertical and the center channel horizontal ?
the idea was mtm in the 3 front channel and mt in the back

-overnight https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=overnight&sitesearch=true
just the mt solution, no mtm for the center

-tritrix https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=tritrix&sitesearch=true
as avitrix, mtm on the front and mt on the back

so, can i use the mtm vertical and horizontal on the front?
i have understand that the center channel is the most important and used in home theater configuration, and is the way i will use more than other my system

i get the opportunity to read the loud speaker cookbook, looks really professional and i dont think to understand a 50% on what there is inside right now, so just diy kit for the moment

i will check later diy sound groups

 

[Pogre]

i'm still considering both, build from scratch and buy ready to build kit. but looks that the second idea fit better for me

i can have that sony for 50$, is really cheap for me now. i have to pay 24% on every things it comes outside my island. for the beginning, it works if the amplifier take just the optical audio from pc and bluray after i can consider a better one

don't worry, sometimes i'm not even sure on what i'm going to do

part express have:
- c-note https://www.parts-express.com/c-note-mt-bookshelf-speaker-kit-pair-with-knock-down-cabinets--300-7140
but only MT bookshelf, and no mtm center for thi series

- avitrix (my favorite) https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=avitrix&sitesearch=true
can i use the mtm vertical on the surround front in vertical and the center channel horizontal ?
the idea was mtm in the 3 front channel and mt in the back

-overnight https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=overnight&sitesearch=true
just the mt solution, no mtm for the center

-tritrix https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=tritrix&sitesearch=true
as avitrix, mtm on the front and mt on the back

so, can i use the mtm vertical and horizontal on the front?
i have understand that the center channel is the most important and used in home theater configuration, and is the way i will use more than other my system

i get the opportunity to read the loud speaker cookbook, looks really professional and i dont think to understand a 50% on what there is inside right now, so just diy kit for the moment

i will check later diy sound groups

Nothing wrong with using 3 of the same speaker across the front. I use a bookshelf for my center. It's a better timbre match than a dedicated center speaker and costs less as well. Center channel speakers are designed with fitting under your tv in mind and involves some compromises.

 

[panteragstk]

i'm still considering both, build from scratch and buy ready to build kit. but looks that the second idea fit better for me

i can have that sony for 50$, is really cheap for me now. i have to pay 24% on every things it comes outside my island. for the beginning, it works if the amplifier take just the optical audio from pc and bluray after i can consider a better one

don't worry, sometimes i'm not even sure on what i'm going to do

part express have:
- c-note https://www.parts-express.com/c-note-mt-bookshelf-speaker-kit-pair-with-knock-down-cabinets--300-7140
but only MT bookshelf, and no mtm center for thi series

- avitrix (my favorite) https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=avitrix&sitesearch=true
can i use the mtm vertical on the surround front in vertical and the center channel horizontal ?
the idea was mtm in the 3 front channel and mt in the back

-overnight https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=overnight&sitesearch=true
just the mt solution, no mtm for the center

-tritrix https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=tritrix&sitesearch=true
as avitrix, mtm on the front and mt on the back

so, can i use the mtm vertical and horizontal on the front?
i have understand that the center channel is the most important and used in home theater configuration, and is the way i will use more than other my system

i get the opportunity to read the loud speaker cookbook, looks really professional and i dont think to understand a 50% on what there is inside right now, so just diy kit for the moment

i will check later diy sound groups

While I understand that the receiver is cheap it is a great example of you get what you pay for. I remember that receiver from when I sold AV many years ago. It wasn't great then, and I wouldn't buy it now if I were you.

What are your needs in a receiver? We can help you choose one that will server you better.

 

[dottorfoggy]

just basics stuff, nothing too advance on the interface, useless features like Spotify, dont need the mic for the tune. I prefer the quality to the bling bling that sale those days

 

[MrBoat]

i'm still considering both, build from scratch and buy ready to build kit. but looks that the second idea fit better for me

i can have that sony for 50$, is really cheap for me now. i have to pay 24% on every things it comes outside my island. for the beginning, it works if the amplifier take just the optical audio from pc and bluray after i can consider a better one

don't worry, sometimes i'm not even sure on what i'm going to do

part express have:
- c-note https://www.parts-express.com/c-note-mt-bookshelf-speaker-kit-pair-with-knock-down-cabinets--300-7140
but only MT bookshelf, and no mtm center for thi series

- avitrix (my favorite) https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=avitrix&sitesearch=true
can i use the mtm vertical on the surround front in vertical and the center channel horizontal ?
the idea was mtm in the 3 front channel and mt in the back

-overnight https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=overnight&sitesearch=true
just the mt solution, no mtm for the center

-tritrix https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=tritrix&sitesearch=true
as avitrix, mtm on the front and mt on the back

so, can i use the mtm vertical and horizontal on the front?
i have understand that the center channel is the most important and used in home theater configuration, and is the way i will use more than other my system

i get the opportunity to read the loud speaker cookbook, looks really professional and i dont think to understand a 50% on what there is inside right now, so just diy kit for the moment

i will check later diy sound groups

This site carries all the Overnight sensation versions, including a center.

I also agree with a designed kit. Why? For starters, just about every design configuration with all of the popular drivers imaginable has been done. After all of the work, and if you manage to come up with a successful design, it would suck to find out someone already has it. Where you may most likely reside in uniqueness is with the finish and the tidiness of the build.

I went through this when building a wooden boat. Started out with all I knew about boats, hydrodynamics etc. and set about to drawing blueprints from scratch and then a wood model of my so-called concept. Got it all completed and found one almost exactly like it and that community would have sworn I lifted the design from there, even with what subtle differences I had added. With all of my exposure to boats, there of course were influences that I could not, or would not deny. So then it occurred to me with. . . ."what's the point?" Sometimes, just knowing you can if you want to is enough of a trophy.

Same with building crossovers. I know I can solder and read schematics and assemble neatly. If I can buy it already done, also factoring the value of my time, it does not bother me using someone else's good work sometimes. So far, nobody has held it against me. I do build some of my own crossovers from the kits.

By the time you get good at building speakers, even if by the 2nd/3rd pair, you have too many speakers.

 

[dottorfoggy]

really nice! thanks a lot, here there is what i need! mmtmm center, tmm front and tm back!

i totally agree, many thanks

 

[dottorfoggy]

wich one configuration will work better? i read different opínion by the mtm vs mmtmm center, the first one use 2x4" mid and the second 4x3" mids. the first one will match better the rest of the speakers right?

FL mtm - C mtm - FR mtm --- RL tm - RR tm
FL mtm - C mmtmm - FR mtm --- RL tm - RR tm

on what i have understand, the 4" have a lower frequency response

3" https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/B3N.pdf

4" https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/B4N.pdf

 

[dottorfoggy]

I didn't won the auction for the Sony amplifier, went too expensive, over 200$
so now I can look around, here one shop that I can buy online without any problem https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/List/000-036
which one you think will work better? I'm also reading some reviews

 

[dottorfoggy]

looking on the denon line, for what i'm going to use my first system, even the base line AVR-X540BT will work good for me, but the AVRX1300 can be a better choice by the better terminals on the back...
i think now i'm ready to start to order somethings, christmas is coming early.

the last one too choose is the sub, a low budget ready to use or a diy kit, 8" or 10"