First Impressions of the Ascend Sierra Towers/Horizon with RAAL Ribbons

F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Hot damn! That really is a very clean looking install, Rob. Kudos to the installer you worked with :)

That SI screen is damn sexy too! Ya done good! :D

I can see right away why you might be having the couple of bass issues that you mentioned. That corner placement and having you seat pretty close to the side wall are definitely potential culprits ;) Hopefully, you'll be able to do the "crawling for bass" that we talked about. I think you'll be VERY happy with the PC12-Plus once you've got that sorted. No problem putting the cylinder on the Auralex SubDude though, I see. Pretty much a perfect fit! Like they were made for eachother :)

A couple of things you could try, just for your own amusement and experience. I'm so happy you took my suggestion to decouple your subwoofer and center speaker. It's a great "I heard it for myself" experience though to remove the Auralex decoupling devices and just hear the difference between decoupled and not decoupled. Same with having Audyssey on and Audyssey off. It's just a fun comparison to hear with your own ears and it can help you to appreciate and better understand what's going on acoustically.

One other thing you could try: try playing just one tower in mono. You could disconnect all your other speakers to do this. Then try putting that SubDude under the tower and compare. Decoupling a tower from the floor can sometimes have a fairly noticeable impact on the sound. So you could try it out since you have one SubDude already. It might convince you to invest in a couple more for your towers, depending on your results ;)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Oh, the Q900 huh? That one has some aluminum cone breakup in the ~4khz-8khz region that they were too cheap to address in the crossover. Might be what you heard.
You can't address that sort of problem in a crossover. You only address that by throwing those tweeters in the garbage.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
You can't address that sort of problem in a crossover. You only address that by throwing those tweeters in the garbage.
Huh?

The tweeters are fine. I'm talking about the 8" aluminum cone breakup, which could benefit from a steeper slope and a notch filter rather than the basic 2nd order filter in place.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Huh?

The tweeters are fine. I'm talking about the 8" aluminum cone breakup, which could benefit from a steeper slope and a notch filter rather than the basic 2nd order filter in place.
Yes, I understand. You are talking about a sharp breakup resonance out of the pass band. That is easily handled in the crossover. You have to have a notch filter for almost all metal cone speakers. If you don't notch the marked break up mode they sound awful.

I have to notch the break up modes in my SEAS Excel drivers.

This problem should be easy for an owner to modify though.
 
R

Rob from NJ

Audioholic Intern
Hot damn! That really is a very clean looking install, Rob. Kudos to the installer you worked with :)

That SI screen is damn sexy too! Ya done good! :D

I can see right away why you might be having the couple of bass issues that you mentioned. That corner placement and having you seat pretty close to the side wall are definitely potential culprits ;) Hopefully, you'll be able to do the "crawling for bass" that we talked about. I think you'll be VERY happy with the PC12-Plus once you've got that sorted. No problem putting the cylinder on the Auralex SubDude though, I see. Pretty much a perfect fit! Like they were made for eachother :)

A couple of things you could try, just for your own amusement and experience. I'm so happy you took my suggestion to decouple your subwoofer and center speaker. It's a great "I heard it for myself" experience though to remove the Auralex decoupling devices and just hear the difference between decoupled and not decoupled. Same with having Audyssey on and Audyssey off. It's just a fun comparison to hear with your own ears and it can help you to appreciate and better understand what's going on acoustically.

One other thing you could try: try playing just one tower in mono. You could disconnect all your other speakers to do this. Then try putting that SubDude under the tower and compare. Decoupling a tower from the floor can sometimes have a fairly noticeable impact on the sound. So you could try it out since you have one SubDude already. It might convince you to invest in a couple more for your towers, depending on your results ;)
FirstReflection,

So far, the sub is a disappointment. In fairness, I've not yet done a sub crawl. That's a topic for another thread. I'll PM you.

Watched Hugo this weekend. Great movie. Very simple and touching story-line. Audio is great for dialogue and surrounds, however, little to no LFE. I'm very happy with the Horizon Center. Very smooth and clear presentation of dialogue with Hugo. Also, the Horizon has nice and wide dispersion covering a large area. Great center speaker.
 
W

wizot

Audiophyte
Billy,

i am in the process of putting together a home theater for a new house that i'm moving into in 6-8 weeks. i have been researching and listening to speakers incessantly and have definitely decided on the sierra towers and horizon center from ascend. i am trying to decide on surrounds that will complement my front stage and satisfy my WAF. I don't really have side wall mounting available and must mount surrounds on the back wall, directly behind the couch. i was pretty convinced that the qs4's would be perfect, but now am having second thoughts with some of the negative reviews about axiom that i have read. you have these 5 speakers and i would love a little more explanation from you. are you at least happy with the performance of the qs4? would you have any other alternate suggestions? (unfortunately, i can't mount big, black bookshelfs as surrounds unless i want to get a divorce.) any insight would be greatly appreciated! thank you in advance! if anyone else has something to contribute, i'm all ears...
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
FirstReflection,

So far, the sub is a disappointment. In fairness, I've not yet done a sub crawl. That's a topic for another thread. I'll PM you.
Yes, I'm very sorry to hear that, Rob. But I can promise you, the PC12-Plus is a heck of a sub (not just me saying so either, the pro reviews definitely agree with me :p ) and there's definitely something not right in either the placement, the settings or the calibration - or some combination of those. Once we get it sorted out, I think the sub might just become the star of your whole system! Although that RAAL Horizon is going to be darn tough to beat for that title ;)

I've PM'd you back a step-by-step process that you can follow to really track down the source of your subwoofer issues. It might seem a little extreme and involved, but the whole point is to take it one step at a time in order to really learn exactly what's going on with your subwoofer setup and the bass in your room.

I remember Djeayzonne having similar problems and disappointments with his PC13-Ultra that I had strongly recommended to him. He went through the whole process and discovered a combination of placement and settings errors. While it was a headache and took some time, he wound up absolutely ecstatic with the performance of that sub in the end, so I'd say the headache is WELL worth it.

The PC12-Plus should not be a disappointment - no way, no how. So I really hope you'll be willing to put up with the headache for a bit and go through the process to sort it out. I promise you it'll be worth it in the end :)

And don't hesitate to call SVS to get their help either. They are very friendly and helpful over there and they want nothing more than for you to be happy with one of their subs!

So please don't panic just yet and don't be discouraged. I do feel bad because I know most people don't want or expect to have to go through a whole process to get things working the way they should! I can totally understand and sympathize with that, and I don't want to try and make excuses for it because it really should be easier. But just in terms of getting what you deserve for the amount of money and time that you've spent, I just hope you'll look at it as an opportunity instead of a headache :) When you get the results from the PC12-Plus that I know it is capable of producing, it's gonna be almost like getting a whole new system all over again! So I truly am sorry to know you're having problems and disappointment. That sucks. You shouldn't have to waste your time. And I do feel bad about it since I pushed the PC12-Plus pretty hard. But I promise you it'll be worth it in the end! That sub is a beast. And once we get it sorted, no more disappointment. I guarantee! :)
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Yeah, definitely give SVS a call and ask for help with placement and setting up your sub :)
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
Billy,

i am in the process of putting together a home theater for a new house that i'm moving into in 6-8 weeks. i have been researching and listening to speakers incessantly and have definitely decided on the sierra towers and horizon center from ascend. i am trying to decide on surrounds that will complement my front stage and satisfy my WAF. I don't really have side wall mounting available and must mount surrounds on the back wall, directly behind the couch. i was pretty convinced that the qs4's would be perfect, but now am having second thoughts with some of the negative reviews about axiom that i have read. you have these 5 speakers and i would love a little more explanation from you. are you at least happy with the performance of the qs4? would you have any other alternate suggestions? (unfortunately, i can't mount big, black bookshelfs as surrounds unless i want to get a divorce.) any insight would be greatly appreciated! thank you in advance! if anyone else has something to contribute, i'm all ears...
The ideal situation would've been to have either the Sierra 1's or CBM 170's but IMO both would be over kill in that situation. Besides I used direct radiating monitors before and I prefer speakers like bi or diploes and the Q's for suround applications.

Now...how they integrate together not a totally seemless soundstage...I know they're voiced differently....stating the obvious here... but they work well together with movies. Music though was a bit more difficult after calibratition I had to dial in the Q's a bit...so I lowered them by ~1db this subtle change made things blend in better.

The Towers sound much louder in my room and were set at ~(-5dbs) the Q's were set at ~(+5dbs) so because the sensitivity variance levels being about 10dbs...having the Q's set at +5dbs just didn't sound right making them play slightly to loud and why I decided to turn them down. This made sense to me and provided for better overall balance between all the said speakers.
 
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R

Rob from NJ

Audioholic Intern
I've PM'd you back a step-by-step process that you can follow to really track down the source of your subwoofer issues. It might seem a little extreme and involved, but the whole point is to take it one step at a time in order to really learn exactly what's going on with your subwoofer setup and the bass in your room.
FirstReflection,

Thanks! I’ll review the step-by-step process and begin work.

Last night, I had a mind changing experience with the SVS PC12-Plus. Moved the sub a few inches off the side wall, took it off the sub-dude and ran it hot. Played the Incredibles plane/missiles scene and the experience was scary. Couch was shaking and walls were rumbling. The scene felt like nothing I had ever heard. I was actually afraid. Problem is I was not even close to replicating this experience with LFE scenes from other movies (I tried LFE scenes from 300 and Harry Potter Order of the Phoenix). The bass sounded flat and lacked punch. Is it all in the source and not the sub?
 
R

Rob from NJ

Audioholic Intern
Billy,

i am in the process of putting together a home theater for a new house that i'm moving into in 6-8 weeks. i have been researching and listening to speakers incessantly and have definitely decided on the sierra towers and horizon center from ascend. i am trying to decide on surrounds that will complement my front stage and satisfy my WAF. I don't really have side wall mounting available and must mount surrounds on the back wall, directly behind the couch. i was pretty convinced that the qs4's would be perfect, but now am having second thoughts with some of the negative reviews about axiom that i have read. you have these 5 speakers and i would love a little more explanation from you. are you at least happy with the performance of the qs4? would you have any other alternate suggestions? (unfortunately, i can't mount big, black bookshelfs as surrounds unless i want to get a divorce.) any insight would be greatly appreciated! thank you in advance! if anyone else has something to contribute, i'm all ears...
Wizot,

I ended up going with Ascend 170SE’s as surrounds based on Dave’s recommendation (He recommended Sierra-1 for a music oriented system and 170s for HT). When the speakers arrived I was initially shocked at the height and depth of the 170s and so was the installer. I mounted the surrounds on the OmniMount 20 mount and due to their 14 lbs. weight, they still shift downward, which is ok for my listening position. Coming from smaller Def. Tech monitors, the 170 is a big speaker. My initial impression is the 170s can definitely scream. I played a number of movies the last few days with a decent amount of surround sound (i.e. Pixar movies, 300) and these surrounds are very noticeable in a good way. I was surprised.
A smaller footprint option is the 200SE and even though there’s more height compared to the QS4, the depth is about the same. Also, less width than the QS4. Of course, one is a bookshelf and the other is quadpolar.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Wizot,

I ended up going with Ascend 170SE’s as surrounds based on Dave’s recommendation (He recommended Sierra-1 for a music oriented system and 170s for HT). When the speakers arrived I was initially shocked at the height and depth of the 170s and so was the installer. I mounted the surrounds on the OmniMount 20 mount and due to their 14 lbs. weight, they still shift downward, which is ok for my listening position. Coming from smaller Def. Tech monitors, the 170 is a big speaker. My initial impression is the 170s can definitely scream. I played a number of movies the last few days with a decent amount of surround sound (i.e. Pixar movies, 300) and these surrounds are very noticeable in a good way. I was surprised.
A smaller footprint option is the 200SE and even though there’s more height compared to the QS4, the depth is about the same. Also, less width than the QS4. Of course, one is a bookshelf and the other is quadpolar.
Rob, I agree the 170's are an excellent choice and play a lot bigger than they look, the output and extension is great for a speaker of this size, with the omnimount the 170 will be about three inches from wall, being rear ported and 3" from boundary Dave states they should be fine if crossed at 80Hz. I played around with them today on stands well out into the room in a second system crossed over at 80Hz to a sub pushing them hard and was amazed at the output but the rear ports were pushing a lot of air, I don't know what they would sound like just 3" from rear wall boundary, according to Dave they should be fine but I have them on stands as back surrounds at least 1.5' from any room boundary, I am very pleased with them. I have 340's all around with the 170's rear, I have been contemplating the ST's and after hearing your and Billy's impressions it's becoming more than contemplation. Dina and Dave are wonderful people to work with, the CS sold me along with Dave's commitment to offer quality and price ratios that are very competitive in the market arena. Take care and enjoy.
Jeff
 
R

Rob from NJ

Audioholic Intern
Rob, I agree the 170's are an excellent choice and play a lot bigger than they look, the output and extension is great for a speaker of this size, with the omnimount the 170 will be about three inches from wall, being rear ported and 3" from boundary Dave states they should be fine if crossed at 80Hz. I played around with them today on stands well out into the room in a second system crossed over at 80Hz to a sub pushing them hard and was amazed at the output but the rear ports were pushing a lot of air, I don't know what they would sound like just 3" from rear wall boundary, according to Dave they should be fine but I have them on stands as back surrounds at least 1.5' from any room boundary, I am very pleased with them. I have 340's all around with the 170's rear, I have been contemplating the ST's and after hearing your and Billy's impressions it's becoming more than contemplation. Dina and Dave are wonderful people to work with, the CS sold me along with Dave's commitment to offer quality and price ratios that are very competitive in the market arena. Take care and enjoy.
Jeff
Jeff,
Thanks for the crossover guidance on the 170s. Currently Im crossed over at 100hz and I'll make the switch and check em out. I thought long and hard about setting them up on stands, however, simply don't have the room. I've received a bunch of comments about the surrounds from family members because of their dynamics. Playing Incredibles and Finding Nemo with tons of surround sound and they do a great job whizzing sound around the room.
I love the Horizon and STs for it's smoothness, clarity and vocals, all with dispersion wide enough to fill my room. Definitely a purchase that will have benefits for a very long time. I also agree that Ascend's CS is first rate.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
FirstReflection,

Thanks! I’ll review the step-by-step process and begin work.

Last night, I had a mind changing experience with the SVS PC12-Plus. Moved the sub a few inches off the side wall, took it off the sub-dude and ran it hot. Played the Incredibles plane/missiles scene and the experience was scary. Couch was shaking and walls were rumbling. The scene felt like nothing I had ever heard. I was actually afraid. Problem is I was not even close to replicating this experience with LFE scenes from other movies (I tried LFE scenes from 300 and Harry Potter Order of the Phoenix). The bass sounded flat and lacked punch. Is it all in the source and not the sub?
There can certainly be big differences in the bass from movie to movie or album to album. However, what you are describing sounds an awful lot like there's something a little wonky in the cross-over settings right now.

Most folks don't realize that the dedicated Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel very often doesn't carry much information at all! In a lot of movies, the VAST majority of the bass is mixed into the Main L/R Front channels. So if something is a bit off in the bass management, and the bass in the Main L/R Front channels isn't being removed from the Front L/R speakers and sent to the subwoofer, then you'll get exactly the sort of thing that you're hearing - HUGE rumbles and bass thuds when the bass is actually mixed into the LFE channel, but much, much less bass when it is mixed into the Front L/R channels.

The GOOD news, is that it certainly seems as though your PC12-Plus is functional and not broken in any way! So that's one worry dealt with :) As you experienced, the PC12-Plus is most certainly capable of LOUD and high impact bass output, yes? :D So it's not the subwoofer itself - there seems to be some problem in the settings.

Given that the PC12-Plus has many options of its own, and given that the Denon's bass management can be quite complex, it's all the more important to take it one step at a time, start at the very beginning with the most basic signal and no extra processing. And then go step-by-step in order to make sure that everything is working the way it should and so that your PC12-Plus is receiving all of the bass signals that are supposed to be getting routed to it.

I'll be totally honest - I get frustrated with bass management issues all the time! I don't know why it is that bass management so often gets screwed up, but it's a very common problem. One of the biggest reasons is because all of the "auto setup" programs, including Audyssey, always seem to mess up the low end settings of the speakers and the cross-over frequency. I almost always have to set those things manually, so while this is a big time pain in the rear, it is not totally unexpected.

Anywho, the best thing to take away from your experience so far is that the potential for loud, clear, high impact bass is just sitting there waiting to be released from within that lovely PC12-Plus! You've heard it now, so at least you have an idea of what I was talking about :p So that's a good start. Now we just need to get all the settings correct so that it is consistent!
 
W

wizot

Audiophyte
The ideal situation would've been to have either the Sierra 1's or CBM 170's but IMO both would be over kill in that situation. Besides I used direct radiating monitors before and I prefer speakers like bi or diploes and the Q's for suround applications.

Now...how they integrate together not a totally seemless soundstage...I know they're voiced differently....stating the obvious here... but they work well together with movies. Music though was a bit more difficult after calibratition I had to dial in the Q's a bit...so I lowered them by ~1db this subtle change made things blend in better.

The Towers sound much louder in my room and were set at ~(-5dbs) the Q's were set at ~(+5dbs) so because the sensitivity variance levels being about 10dbs...having the Q's set at +5dbs just didn't sound right making them play slightly to loud and why I decided to turn them down. This made sense to me and provided for better overall balance between all the said speakers.
Wizot,

I ended up going with Ascend 170SE’s as surrounds based on Dave’s recommendation (He recommended Sierra-1 for a music oriented system and 170s for HT). When the speakers arrived I was initially shocked at the height and depth of the 170s and so was the installer. I mounted the surrounds on the OmniMount 20 mount and due to their 14 lbs. weight, they still shift downward, which is ok for my listening position. Coming from smaller Def. Tech monitors, the 170 is a big speaker. My initial impression is the 170s can definitely scream. I played a number of movies the last few days with a decent amount of surround sound (i.e. Pixar movies, 300) and these surrounds are very noticeable in a good way. I was surprised.
A smaller footprint option is the 200SE and even though there’s more height compared to the QS4, the depth is about the same. Also, less width than the QS4. Of course, one is a bookshelf and the other is quadpolar.
Billy, thanks for the qs4 calibration suggestions.

i, too, agree that a bipole or "quadpole" would serve me best for surrounds.

Rob, i have no other choice but to mount surrounds on the rear wall directly behind the couch. i was under the impression that the sound from direct radiating monopoles in my situation would just pass over my head unless pointed directly down at me. i would like to avoid having one sweet spot at the expense of 3-5 other people missing out on the surround effect. am i discounting the overall performance of the 170s or the 200se?

any other bipoles i should consider in addition to the quad qs4?

thank you both for your help! it is much appreciated.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Billy, thanks for the qs4 calibration suggestions.

i, too, agree that a bipole or "quadpole" would serve me best for surrounds.

Rob, i have no other choice but to mount surrounds on the rear wall directly behind the couch. i was under the impression that the sound from direct radiating monopoles in my situation would just pass over my head unless pointed directly down at me. i would like to avoid having one sweet spot at the expense of 3-5 other people missing out on the surround effect. am i discounting the overall performance of the 170s or the 200se?

any other bipoles i should consider in addition to the quad qs4?

thank you both for your help! it is much appreciated.
Wiz, I think you are discounting the overall performance of the 170's, they are designed to be placed at approx. 6' height at the sides or behind the listening area as side or rear surrounds and have wide dispersion pattern, I don't think you will be limited to a narrow "sweet spot" and will be pleasantly surprised with their performance. I don't think a sweet spot is the issue here, you will be dealing with surround effects and the 170's will not draw attention to themselves and do just fine at your location. Hope this helps.
Jeff
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Jeff,
Thanks for the crossover guidance on the 170s. Currently Im crossed over at 100hz and I'll make the switch and check em out. I thought long and hard about setting them up on stands, however, simply don't have the room. I've received a bunch of comments about the surrounds from family members because of their dynamics. Playing Incredibles and Finding Nemo with tons of surround sound and they do a great job whizzing sound around the room.
I love the Horizon and STs for it's smoothness, clarity and vocals, all with dispersion wide enough to fill my room. Definitely a purchase that will have benefits for a very long time. I also agree that Ascend's CS is first rate.
Rob, you are welcome my friend, thanks for the honest and straight forward impressions of the ST's, I am very close to the qualities you describe and the ST's will put me right there.
Jeff
 
R

Rob from NJ

Audioholic Intern
And don't hesitate to call SVS to get their help either. They are very friendly and helpful over there and they want nothing more than for you to be happy with one of their subs!
Spoke with Ed from SVS today. He shared a wealth of information about the PC12-Plus, Denon’s Bass Management system, Audyssey, room acoustics/sub placement, interaction with the Sierras and guidance to equalize the sub with the rest of the system. He definitely gave me good direction to ensure I’m optimizing the sub. Combined with a number of FirstReflection’s steps, as well, I’ve got my work cut out for me. SVS Customer Service is world class.

Sound panels received yesterday. My wife and I will be hanging the panels, hopefully this weekend.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
That's great news! Things look to be coming together nicely :D

We'll get that sub sorted yet! Ed and the rest of the folks over at SVS definitely know their subs, so I'm really pleased you gave them a call and received some help and tips from Ed. They're sure to put you on the right path.

I think that one of the most common problems in home theater today is the attempt to simplify setup, placement and calibration. It's a noble effort and I totally understand why everyone would want the process to be simpler. But honestly, my own experience has taught me that there's really no substitute for just the good ol' basics. The problem with the basics is that they can be time consuming and they can involve a lot of trial and error. But once they're done, the experience is almost always better than any "auto setup" or "quick start guide" can muster.

I think my praise of Audyssey MultEQ XT32 might have led you a little bit astray, Rob. So I apologize for that. I should have done a better job of explaining that MultEQ XT32 best serves as the "cherry on top", rather than making it sound like some sort of "wonder" program. I mean, it IS a very powerful EQ program, but I personally still don't trust it to do the actual set up of the basics. Unfortunately, it's easier for manufacturers to suggest using the "auto setup" right at the start of the instruction manual, making the basic, manual setup of the speakers seem like something that is more advanced or only for people who like to tweak and adjust things.

In truth, there's no substitute for first addressing your room's acoustic issues with passive treatments, then focusing on proper placement and basic setup (levels, delays/distances, cross-overs) of your speakers, and making sure everything is as optimized as possible with no additional processing or EQ involved at first. THEN, after all of that, a great program like MultEQ XT32 can smooth out those few trouble spots that no passive room treatment or adjustment to speaker positioning or setup can fix.

So if you sort of think of MultEQ XT32 as the "last resort", personally, I think that's the better way to look at it. :) But no one would guess that from the way such "auto setup" programs are described in product manuals or feature sheets, and I did a poor job myself of explaining that :(

So anywho, looking toward the future, I'm excited for you to hang those acoustic treatments. Can't wait to get a look at them in some pictures actually! I know they're more than just the plain, basic, one color panels that I have ;)

With those in place, you can focus on getting the bass working to perfection first. Then you'll want to carefully blend in the speakers, paying close attention to the cross-over to the sub. When that's done, you can get your front soundstage imaging perfected with careful toe-in of the towers and tilt of the center. And when all of that is done, you can run MultEQ XT32 to smooth out any remaining trouble spots, which ought to be relatively few :)

After THAT, there are all the many, many listening mode options to play with in the Denon 4311! But those are purely a matter of preference. I pretty much always just use the native sound mode: Dolby Digital for DD soundtracks; DTS for DTS soundtracks; TrueHD or DTS-HD MA for those formats; or Multi-channel PCM if your Blu-ray player is handling the audio decoding. Just basic Stereo for CDs, or Dolby Pro Logic II if I want to expand stereo music to surround sound. I don't tend to use much else. None of the "DSP Modes" that basically just add echo. And since you're just running 5.1 speakers, there's no need to worry about "expansion" modes that go to 7 or 9 or 11 speakers!

So yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing this all really come together for you. I am sorry that you've had some headaches along the way, but I want to commend you for sticking with it, being willing to ask questions, and not giving up or panicking when things don't work perfectly right away. That is exactly the attitude I sincerely hope anyone would adopt. And if you're willing to think of it all as a learning experience rather than just a giant pain in the rear, you can wind up with an even greater appreciation for this hobby! It's pretty much the way most of us here on the message boards got started. We've all cursed, pulled our hair out and screamed, "why can't it just work the way it's supposed to?!" on multiple occasions! lol So just know that you're not alone :) It can and will be sorted out, and it'll be absolutely AWESOME when it's finally all done!

So honestly, I do want to say thank you to you, Rob, because you've really taken it all in stride, been patient, and I'm really hoping you've had some fun during this whole process as well! One of the best feelings in this hobby is when we manage to solve an issue that's been bugging us for a while, or when we manage to eek out an improvement from the gear we already have, rather than just spending a pile of money on something new :p You're getting to experience that in a rather condensed and stressful timeframe! But if you're able to think of it in terms of each problem solved and each improvement heard as almost like hearing your system anew each time - that's really one of the most fun parts of this hobby and you'll find yourself in very good company when you (hopefully) decide to keep visiting boards like this one and sharing your experiences and growing knowledge with other folks who are just getting into home theater for the first time :)

Best of luck! And I'm definitely looking forward to some pics and even moreso to the day - hopefully soon - when this whole new room and system really all "clicks" perfectly into place and you can kick back, relax, and completely lose yourself in a weekend of movies the way you deserve to!

:D
 
R

Rob from NJ

Audioholic Intern
Did re-positioning of the Sierra towers and the sub last night. Re-ran Audyssey XT 32. An exercise of complete frustration and futility. Audyssey is now showing inconsistent caution messages of 1 of the Sierra towers being out of phase. This did not happen during my setup run. I checked the wires carefully and all positives are connected and negatives connected correctly (AVR and speakers). Read the Denon manual, as well as, quite a number of posts in Audyssey forums. It appears representatives from Audyssey are basically stating check your wires and if correct skip over this error message. They blame everything (except Audyssey itself) for this error including speaker manufacturers, room acoustics, mic placement, the moon, the sun and heaven. I think I'll run THX Optimizer Phase Test to determine if the Audyssey error message has any validity.

However, what's worse, is the multiple times of running Audyssey all resulted in extremely high trim levels for all my speakers except for the sub and 1 surround (very different results of my initial setup). The Sierra towers and Horizon were screaming at me by using the Audyssey levels results. There has to be an easier way here.

On a positive note, whether good or bad, Dynamic EQ makes the bass and my surrounds sound absolutely fantastic. My room was like an earthquake with Dynamic EQ on. Once I took Dynamic EQ off, I did not get the same results. Basically flat bass with very little effect. I'm concerned that I'm used to listening to boomy bass and can't recognize the sound of good bass. I do like the Horizon better with Dynamic EQ off.
 

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